Pregnant SIL is leaving BIL

[popalittlepancakeintothepan]

Hi,

I'm really concerned for my BIL. My SIL is 7 months pregnant and has decided to leave my BIL. Just wondering if he's likely to be granted 50/50 custody when baby arrives?

No I didn't say that Serf. That's not what that quote says at all. You obviously haven't understood it.

My poor MIL has just read all this. Didn't realise she was even on here.

Well, this has just made my point.

Seriously, you should not be posting about other people's relationships and children with such identifying details.

Either OP is being a terrible busybody in trying to strategise the whole thing OR this chap really is such a wet lettuce that he's handed decision-making to his SIL.

Or he is discussing things with his family as people do when relationships break down.

Do you say the same thing to women who speak to their family about things? Are they 'wet lettuces' too?

Quite often posters that are going through break ups are told to make sure they have RL support. looking forward to you going on those threads and saying the same

The constructive advice is be prepared to negotiate and go through mediation if necessary.

Step back from the all guns blazing "obviously would love to" "go for full custody" stance so early in the game.

Maybe your childhood experiences in 92 have led you to view these things as war and highly litigious? Not a good approach and not current good practice either.

No agenda here op. A lot of children ultimately won't end up 50/50 as it's quite often simply not in their interests not to have a fixed home base.
For your bil I'd do my utmost to stay on excellent terms with sil, definitely best for the child and all involved.
Assuming sil is planning to breast feed and even if not no court is going to order new baby away from its mother for any period of time. The only Court ordered access from birth I know was weekly visits. ( I don't know the specifics or if this is usual)
In a friends experience she was recommended by her solicitor not to use her ex as childcare, when she went back to work as that is one thing that would legally weaken her position, as it made him the primary carer. Not saying I agree with this but your bil should prepare for the fact she might change her mind, find alternatives or give up work herself.
I hope everyone involved can come to an amicable agreement. It must be very difficult.

I think your getting a hard time on here but that's because your discussing every eventuality. In most cases it won't Come to that particularly if you say it's relatively amicable.

I might get slated for this but my sons have different fathers. I have an open door policy. That means for ds3 he hasn't seen his dad at all since he broke up but he will go away with him mon- wed next week and then for a week from the following Friday. We try and co parent and adjust where necessary.

What I mean is the child cannot be boxed off from birth (in my opinion) with set days and every other hols. There are so many factors that could affect this. A wait and see and supportive approach would be better.

I know a lady well whose brother was In a similar situation and her family surrounded her and affectively blocked him from the baby for over a year. They felt she was being harassed whilst pregnant and post delivery. He would have been better just waiting to see what happened.

Everything can't be pre arranged (children are unpredictable)!

i think if there is no animosity between bil and sil then they both need to have a discussion about how how they would both like to care for newborn - i would imagine that mum would not want to be seperated from baby at this stage for very long at all ie a couple of hours max, if not bf then i would think that at 6m then it would be fair to dad to increase his time gradually to whatever suits both parents - before 6m i think it is very hard for most mums to be away from their babies for long periods of time which is natures way of ensuring we nurture our babies and dont abandon them when they are not being so cute ie screaming head of for hours on end😀. I think if bil and extended family start pushing for 50/50 too soon then it might be a fight all the way however there is no reason for him not to be clear that is what he would like once baby is old enough. You really should only be going to solicitors if you cant agree or to formalise an arrangememt

I think the OP is being given a really hard time.

There is nothing wrong with discussing the situation with BIL, and him knowing that he has a family with whom he can talk things through at a very difficult time.

If it was my BIL, I would be gathering all of the information I could, for when he might need it in the future. That isn't interfering - the OP is not forcing her BIL to do something, or behave in a way he doesn't want to.

And it must be extremely difficult for him, to suddenly be removed from the life that he and his DW have been planning, without any choice in the matter. Without a doubt, the first consideration should be the baby and the mother's health, but the situation of the father is also worthy of some consideration.

Tough times for your family OP - hope it resolves itself.

If your MIL has read this and recognised your family beaware that your SIL may also be on mumsnet, what with being pregnant. So she may also be reading this.

Please talk to her or her parents. A friend of mine did exactly this at eight months pregnant. Didn't love dh anymore, moved back to her parents. They noticed something was off and her mum took her to the midwife and spoke to her and she was then seen by a GP at the practice at the same time. She had prenatal depression. After she gave birth she had severe pnd and was then treated ( they didn't want to start antidepressants in pregnancy do she was just monitored and had counselling). Within three weeks of being on ad's her and her dh were dating again and taking dd to baby groups and for walks together. They have three children now and are happy. She has had postnatal depression every time but due to being in a lower safe dose of antidepressants during each pregnancy she hasn't had pre natal depression again.
It really is worth looking into and telling your bil aboyt

Serf

There is no 'full custody' stance. That's never been on the table. Don't know why this is being brought up again.

Op

If the mother has indicated that she will not be reasonable regarding contact then there is no harm getting a water tight court order setting out what contact is going to look like.

To posters questioning his timing - why? He's well within his rights to start thinking about this now.

The op came here asking for advice and is entitled to do so!

Babies can be extremely difficult and need their mothers - my eldest never went to her dad as a baby would settle for him take a bottle from him etc - and we lived together

He needs to take things slowly and day by day - not thinking of set custody

He would be better visiting the baby at home to give the mum a break - let her have a bath or bring her some tea while he bonds with the baby

Like people have said she'll be on maternity leave - she may well decide to take the full 12 months - things have changed for her as well

She may decide not to use DH parents for childcare - you don't know how or what she feels

He seem intent on 'having things set in stone' it doesn't work like that with kids - they change you as a person even they rely on you - maybe she wants something different and he's not listening?

I really don't understand the assumption that talking 50:50 childcare arrangements will immediately alienate the mother and make things hostile. To me this seems like an incredibly supportive thing to be suggesting, and something she may be happy with given she enjoys her career and is about to become a first time mum as a single person, and may be scared about how she'll cope. They are amicable now, so why would she assume this is hostile? Isn't it fantastic that as 50% of the child's parents he is immediately saying he will be there no matter what for 50% of the practical time? (Clearly I'm sure he'll be there for 100% emotional support etc and actually happy to do more than 50% if that suits their situation)

I would say they are best trying to organise things outside of court if possible. My DH and his ex did this and agreed a 50:50 arrangement and simply got lawyers to draft the parenting plan based on what the two of them had already agreed. Which was 3/4 days with each parent (from the age of 4-11 they had one year 3 nights with mum, 4 with Dad, then the next year 4 nights with mum and 3 with Dad, then from high school on they have alternating full weeks each, as they were more comfortable with the child travelling alone to/from school etc).

Having the same set days each week actually made attending clubs easier, as well as organising work schedules. Their child completely considers herself as having 2 homes, and has been very comfortable with this arrangement, being very close to both parents.

Anyway, clearly what works for one 'broken' family will be different from the next. But this assumption that it is hostile for a father to want to spend 50% of the time with his child seems downright wrong. Sexist, unhelpful and (assuming good parents) not in the best interests of the child.

Everything I've read about baby development says that babies need to bond to one person; doesn't have to be the mother. It might be in the child's best interests to be with one parent most of the time for the first year or so of it's life. Your BIL should try to get a consultation with a child psychologist or similar to find out about child development and what is actually best for the infant stage. 50/50 can happen later when the child is securely attached.

Thank you for all the constructive advice. This is actually helpful now.

I'd say op butt out why are you researching for him? I'm assuming it's your dh/dw brother so quite frankly why do you care so much?

I'm guessing that you're not a parent OP and that this is the first baby for BIL/SIL.

The thing is both BIL and SIL don't know how they will take to parenting. Lots of women plan a certain length of maternity leave then end up going back sooner/extending for starters.

Even if BIL went legal, he couldn't get any formal agreement in place until the baby is born.

If SIL decides that she wants out of the marriage then all BIL can do is
1- get his new home ready including baby equipment.
2- he shouldn't assume that he can continue with the plan for 2 days of work. He will know her due date so organise paternity leave with work.
3- talk to SIL and find out if she will allow him to be at the birth and go to antenatal appointments (I'm assuming that he has been going)
4- talk to SIL and find out what sort of contact she will allow over his paternity leave. If he's taking the standard 2 weeks then little and often will be ideal.
5- talk to SIL and find out what practical things he can do. E.g. Build cot,

It's worth finding out if mediation services will cover tiny babies. They might have good questions to think about the parents hadn't considered. (Maybe baby's first Xmas?)

then there is no harm getting a water tight court order setting out what contact is going to look like

Yes there is - you haven't even met this new person - you have no idea of their needs - a water tight agreement at this stage might not be what the bay needs

If your bil was going to be the primary care giver that changes the discussion. They really need to talk amicably about this once the two weeks are over. I don't know however why it's relevant then that his parents can provide childcare? As primary carer of my small child I am the childcare, family are just support. Unless you mean from when child is 1, in which case be very clear, because if your bil uses words like that I'd expect your sil to change her mind about all agreed plans. I wouldn't let my dh have a small baby if he were handing them over to his parents on a regular basis. 50/50 care is complicated and often not best for the child. They need to talk about coparenting with such a small baby, there are so many more things to know than are they dressed and have they had dinner, so it's quite different from many peoples experience.

The wet lettuce comments are because people on here think that the dad should be proactive and post himself. If you are a regular then you'd know that reverse threads annoy people and a man getting a woman who's not part of the situation to post also gets people The latter is usually a stepmother who is aware that she has no influence, posting about how to change stepchildren's behaviour.

I'm sorry that you've had to meet with so much unnecessary anger and assumptions OP.

I don't understand why people seem to think she has a hidden agenda . And no, I don't think she is trying to manage his legal case - where have people even got that from?

And why is it relevant whether he will be at the birth?

Clearly, he has asked for advice (as family members do) and she does not know much about this issue (understandably - her main experiences of separation (her parents) are from 1992) and doesn't want to be misinformed, so came to a parenting forum (the perfect place) for advice.

OP, how tough for him . And whilst I do know a few families with a 50/50 split (both 1-week-on 1-week-off and split weeks) they all have older children (aged between 7 and 15) where the parents have split up after the children were born. Unfortunately, in most cases, the mum has more custody, usually with the dad having every other weekend and holiday time.

I'm not saying he can't get 50/50 but it is unlikely and he will have to fight quite hard.

Best of luck to him, and the child is lucky t have 2 parents who care for him so much.

Yes I'm a parent, eyebrows.

Are they actually married - it doesn't sound as though they are from the OPs comments about there being no financial connections and her BiL living at his parents.

Chilly

I care because he's family. Pretty standard, don't you think. And no, I won't butt out because BIL has asked me for advice and support. How is equipping myself with knowledge a bad thing? It also eases my concerns to have some advice. Stops me from worrying.

Or do you not understand the concept of a parenting forum- i.e. Exchanging of ideas, providing support, and offering advice.