AIBU yes I probably am. Who is mumsnet for?

[bluebeardsbabe]

I am a lone parent to a small toddler. I found this forum very useful during my pregnancy (when exp left) for legal information, handholding etc. I mainly lurk now but still dip in from time to time...which is how I noticed how many more dads seem to be posting here now. Now although my exp was a complete vile bastard to me so much so that I still have a hard time trusting men, I fully appreciate that there is good and bad in both sexes and men also need a forum to express emotions relating to single parenting and so on. it's just I'm not sure I feel it's here.

I joined mumsnet specifically to find a nurturing informative environment by women for women, a safe haven to express my emotions. Is it wrong of me to think dads should go off and form dadsnet? I realise my judgement is probably quite clouded like I say but AIBU to think mumsnet should be for mums?

I think MN is more robust that some other parenting forums. I wonder if the OP may be better off elsewhere where posters call each other 'hun' and have tickers at the bottom of their posts? MN is great for advice and support but these days it is populated by quite a few posters (mainly female) who tell it like it is irrespective if that is what the OP wants to hear.

I love the fact that MN is inclusive. I would have no interest at all in a forum that just has female lone parents (which would fit my profile). One of my absolute favourite posters on MN is male.

MN has always been populated by people who "tell it like it is", I do;t neessarily think from what OP says that is the issue.

I also think MN can be very nurturing and supportive. You just can't guarantee that on any forum. And you can call someone hun all you like but it won't make their advice any better or make you any less bitchy or make someone a woman if they're not.

By all means OP look for forums which are aimed specifically at mothers rather than parents but you still won't be able to rely on teh fact that they are nurturing or that they aren't really men. Mind you they will at least have to pretend to be women which might serve its purpose it you just want not to be confronted with men overtly having an opinion!

And at some point sooner rather than later you do need to deal with your feelings about this as its not healthy to raise a child (of either sex) attributing such negative connotations to men.

The problem with some posters on this thread it seems they are blinded by gender.

A woman comes on and what they say is taken as gospel. A man comes on and he is rubbished, vilified and told to go away(by a certain section).

FWIW: An interesting article - it has the stats, and the facts. Take the time to read it please.

exinjuria.wordpress.com/2013/10/17/an-exercise-in-absolute-futility-chapter-seven/

It does not diminish what women may be going through just pointing out men are not the only perpetrators of DV.

only took four separate posts but kewcumber has summed it up nicely lol

to be fair rpitchfo - one post was an apology for being voluble!

A woman comes on and what they say is taken as gospel. ha ha ha ha ! Have you actually read any threads on MN?!

I understand why you feel the way you do bluebeard. I remember once being really appalled at something a male poster said on a thread about childbirth trauma. It reminded me that MN is not a safe space and that it is open to everyone and anyone.

After another incident involving a couple of male posters, I had some of my posts deleted as I didn't want any Tom, Dick or Harry being able to do an advanced search on me and read personal things that are very much female issues. And I don't even share much personal stuff on here! (Certianly less and less).

I think one of the best things about MN is that it is a predominately female space in a world dominated by men. Apart from actual closed/private spaces and the odd feminist space on the internet, it is very very rare for the female voice to be dominant.

Of course not all women are nice and not all men are nasty - it isn't about that.

It is about socialization (as mentioned by Grennie) and perspective.

A female perspective on something like birth trauma is not going to be the same as a male perspective. Same for all manner of gendered issues such as DV, sexual violence, infant feeding and all manner of parenting and life experiences.

Of course MN is a public site and anyone is welcome. Of course there are fab male posters. Of course there are unfab female posters.

But MN as a rare thing, a predominantly female space, is distinctive and precious. I think it is good that it is called Mumsnet not Parentsnet as I suspect that it would change the tone of the whole place. I think a lot of what makes MN fun, plain speaking, witty, hilarious, so supportive and appealing to women is because it is dominated by women and it makes us feel a bit free.

3xcookedchips - I really tried to read that website - always happy to be educated but it rambles and rambles and rambles - has a huge reference to apparently legitimate sources for example the Crime report which it purports agrees that more men than women suffer domestic violence without actually quoting where in the report it says that.

I have the Crime report 2011/12 in front of me and it most definitively doesn't say that. Incidentally 51% of adult female murders are by their partner whereas men are more likely to be killed by a friend or acquaintance.

Anyway saying that men suffer from violence in the home too to a female who has suffered abuse from a male is a bit like saying to someone who's child was hit by a car, "yes but other peoples children get hit by buses you know". Factually accurate but rather irrelevant to the OP.

I don't think it's a nurturing or hun site that anyone needs. It's just a bit of common sense from some of the male users, particularly in the lone parents section.

I've seen male posters advise women to put aside EA or DV behaviour because they should consider the mans feelings about not seeing his child as much. I've also seen men ranting about how their ex abducted their child and pretends to be scared of them and won't even meet for handover (scoffing at the woman sending their parents instead) on threads where women are sharing experiences where they are afraid to meet their ex and have had to move for the child's safety. Some of them just need a filter or need to use a space where they won't be advising vulnerable women or ranting randomly at them. It makes it difficult to ask for advice in this section I think.

But I suppose it is just some of them and not all men. It just irritates me that in this particular section, where you might need advice about a dangerous man, some men reply as if it isn't even relevant that he's dangerous.

Oh, and I get irritated when they dress it up as concern for the child. I'm sure a child wouldn't want his mum putting herself in a dangerous situation by talking things through with an abuser or putting aside abuse. The male posters I've seen dress up that advice as doing it for the child and the child deserves both parents. Guilt tripping women. It's not right.

What do you expect MNHQ to do ? It's similar to medical threads when people post untrue or incorrect information. MNHQ post disclaimers. It's up to us as forumites to challenge innacurate information directly. Which we do. Repeatedly.

Yes BuffyX. I have noticed that in certain male poster's posts as well. You have described this 'dressing up' very well.

When I first came to MN, I did use it for emotional support -under another name. I wouldn't now because of some posters here.

I don't think women are naturally better than men, I do think how we are socialised means that men tend to be more violent than women, tend to talk over women more and discount their experiences, and generally think their views are more important than women's

It shows on this site all the time.

"I don't think women are naturally better than men, I do think how we are socialised means that men tend to be more violent than women, tend to talk over women more and discount their experiences, and generally think their views are more important than women's"

wow...

This site indicates that men are more violent than women?

I love this quote...

"...if we want fathers to play a full role in their children's lives, then we need to bring men into the playgroups and nurseries and the schools. And here, of course, we hit the immediate difficulty of whether we can trust men with children."

Actually MN is for me. it's mine.
all mine.
my precious...

Men commit many more murders than women. That is just a fact.

It's just a silly generalist comment and completely irrelevant to the discussion. This isn't the FWR section.

Yes, men do commit more murders than women. Obviously the reasons behind this are complex. Men are also much more likely to be murdered than women. I still don't see what that would mean to a parenting website which strives to be inclusive.

Any facts to back up the rest of your statement?

oh dear...

...so men shouldn't be allowed to contribute to a forum titled Lone Parents... Nor should they be able to comment on posts alluding to EA/DV because of course they would never understand...

my previous post tried to highlight that DV is not about gender...

The OP has already accepted that its ok to have the hope but unrealistic to expect this to be a man free environment.

Others have chosen to turn it into man v women

The point is that some are arguing here that whether someone is a woman or man does not have an impact on their behaviour. That is clearly not true.

And since with DV it is largely men mudering their female partners, then it very much is a sex issue.

I agree, whether someone is a woman or man does have an impact on their behaviour. True. But you can't make that distinction on an individual basis...nor can you judge any individual by those generalisms.

If I were to offer some advice on a particular subject..DV for example..which I have personal experience of growing up..would you respond that my input was worthless because men were much more likely to be violent than women?

I think that it doesn't help matters when some men come on mumsnet to deliberately deceive, rile or bait posters/the forum. They give all the decent normal men a really bad name and unfortunately the real decent normal men on here end up being viewed with suspicion.

I think YABU but it's understandable that your view of men might be coloured by your experience and by the behaviour of dickheads like the ones I describe above.

I always try to remind myself that I have many decent lovely male friends and family and they by far outweigh the bad, it's just that Mumsnet, and the nature of mumsnet (it being a voice for women and an outlet for relationship advice etc) means it is ripe for abuse by arseholes who should have better things to do with their lives than trolling.

It's been established MN is a voice for parents! tagline, tagline!