Do you think I'm a bad parent

[portencia]

I am a lone parent, my xp and I have been apart for 8yrs , we were never married so don't think he has any legal rights although I have allowed access to take place as I thought it best that the children decide for themselves about him. Most of the time it has been amicable enough
but every now'n again there's a problem flares up and it ends up in a screaming match between us.

The most recent thing was I left our ten year old son in the house on his own for a couple of hours (1hr 45mins to be exact) and while I was out he had phoned the house and our son answered the phone and had told him that I wasn't in, he then phoned me on mobile and started screaming down the phone at me because I hadn't taken my son with me(son didn't want to go, asked if he could stay at home) I knew I wasn't going to be long and my children are well able on their own (they know what to do in emergency situations) so I said okay.
My xp freaked out at this and was threatening to go to the police and lawyers saying the boys would be taken from me (and saying a lot more besides , as you can imagine) I got a fright and was screaming back at him instead of being more rational.
Anyway to cut a very long story short what do you think? Do you think a responsible ten year being left on his own for this period of time at his own request was wrong or should I have MADE(father's way) him come with me?

Hi Portencia ...
I am sorry that you are having a bad time with your x partner. I don't have much advice on that myself but I will say that I actually do agree with your ex on this issue. Isn't it illegal to leave a 10 year old home alone (however mature they may be)? I personally wouldn't leave a child that young at home alone for 10 minutes, let alone nearly 2 hours. I think, in answer to your question, YES, you should have made him come with you.
Sorry ... I hope you manage to sort out your differences with your x ...

I wouldn't have left him, sorry. There's no legal age at which a child shouldn't be left alone, afaik, but personally I think 10 is too young to be left in the house alone for 2 hours.
Your ex may have handled it badly with you but I don't think he was actually wrong to be concerned. Does your 10-year-old really know what to do if, god forbid, someone should break into the house for example?

For what it's worth, and without wanting to play pop-psychologist it's interesting that you emphasise that 'making' a 10-year-old stay home would be 'his father's way' of doing things. Is there an issue of you not wanting to do things the way his dad would? Is his father a bad father in other ways, in your opinion?

Sorry, probably not what you wanted to hear. Hope you can sort this out amicably.

well, when my 11 year old comes back from secondary school (having taken the bus with his friends), there is no one at home and he sometimes is alone in the house for up to 2 hours if dh and I are working late. We both work locally (10 minute drive away) and are very contactable. He also knows our neighbours, so I am fine with this arrangement.

At his age, most of his friends travel on public transport alone and spend time at home sometimes without a parent. It seems to be the norm when they switch schools. This growing independence started in year 6 and teachers encouraged parents to let their children travel to school alone, if this was practical.

If your son is 10 nearly 11 and in year 6 I think leaving him alone at home for a short time is pretty normal if I look at my friends. If your son has just turned 10 and is in year 5, then its on the young side IMO.

Also, IMO, it depends how far away you are - if you were shopping locally and could get back home within minutes, that's a bit different.

TBH, I left my (year 5) young 10 year old alone at home for short periods, but probably would have not done so for two hours unless there were exceptional circumstances. BUT I am sure ds would have been ok being left - I just feel if someone had found out, they would have been critical of my decision. If an emergency had happened and ds had to phone the police, etc, I think they'd have taken a dim view of ds being at home alone.

I think your ex was very nasty to you, whatever his concerns.

Gosh, I didn't know there was no legal age
In NZ it is illegal for children under 14 to be left at home alone. I have a standing arrangement with my neighbour that if she isn't home after school (and she is only ever 10 minutes away) her boys, 10 and 12 respectively, come over to my house to wait for her.
Portencia ... like tigermoth i think your ex has been very nasty ... and only you know your son well enough to know if he is mature enough to be left at home alone.
My son is only 6 and at the moment I can't imagine him ever walking to school or home without me, let alone staying at home while I go out ... poor kid will probably be 40 and I will be walking him to work and inviting his friends round for tea

Portencia, I wouldn't worry. You know your child and you trusted him that he'd be ok to be at home by himself. I used to walk home with my 6 year old brother at the age and look after him for about and hour until my parents got in (they were teachers and sometimes got caught up after school with parents / planning / etc)

I think there might be a legal age limit that i would check out, but as a one off stop beating yourself up about it.

I leave my 7 year-old at home for up to 2 hours. I used to be home alone from a young age, so why can't she be? In the UK children are over-protected and often lack common sense and independence later because of it IMO.

There is no legal age, however you are legaly responsibile for anything that might happen to them.

I was left at this age, but I wouldn't feel happy leaving my now 9 year old for two hours, 5 minutes to pop out to get a pint of milk, yes, but not that amount of time.

Sorry you are having a tough time

I think a mature 10 year old is fine for a short time

I think leaving a 7 year old alone for 2 hours is abusive

Personally, I would have made him come with me. I think that length of time is excessive.

Fairymum, do you really leave your 7 yr old alone for 2 hours??? Don't you worry constantly? I would not feel comfortable with that at all.

I know sometimes you've run out of milk or something and may have to go to the shop and it can be difficult on your own - I admit I have run across to the shop (literally opposite my house) occasionaly but hate doing it, even though I am only gone less than 5 minutes! ds is nearly 7 btw, I would always take dd (2) with me whether she wanted to come or not (she always does - luckily!)

is your 7 yr old making food/drinks etc in that time? what if there was a fire? does she answer the door/phone?

I would be terrified of coming home and finding her gone tbh.........

I think leaving him for a short time is fine, especially if you are not far away, and he can contact you easily. 2 hours is a bit long, IMHO, although I agree with tigermoth that for many 11 year olds at secondary school travelling home to an empty house every day is not at all unusual. He's at that real borderline age. Sorry you are having a tough time with your x, and hope you get it sorted.

Out of interest this is what the NSPCC website says on the matter.....

Leaving Children at Home Alone
There is no law that states the minimum age that a child can be left alone. However, it is an offence to leave a child alone when doing so puts him or her at risk. How do you decide if you can safely leave a child alone? There are many important things to consider before you decide to leave a child alone. These include:
* The age of the child.
* The child's level of maturity and understanding.
* The place where child will be left.
* How long the child will be left alone, and how often.
* Whether or not there are any other children in the household.
Many young children play outdoors with other children without a parent or carer being present. As they are unsupervised, they are 'alone', but most people would agree that this is an important part of growing up.

You are the best judge of your child’s level of maturity and responsibility.A few other points to guide you

* Never leave a baby or very young child alone at home, whether asleep or awake, even for a few minutes. 
* <strong>Most</strong> <strong>children</strong> <strong>under</strong> <strong>thirteen</strong> <strong>should</strong> <strong>not</strong> <strong>be</strong> <strong>left</strong> <strong>for</strong> <strong>more</strong> <strong>than</strong> <strong>a</strong> <strong>short</strong> <strong>period</strong>.
* No child under sixteen should be left overnight.

If you do leave a child alone, remember:
* If possible, leave a telephone number where you can be contacted, and be available to answer it immediately.
* Talk to your child about keeping safe at home and point out the potential dangers. Tell them not to answer the door to strangers.
* Give clear instructions about what to do if there’s an emergency. All children left alone should be able to phone the emergency services.
* Leave a list of trusted people they can contact.
* Put obvious dangers out of reach of children, e.g. medicines, chemicals, matches, etc...
* Make sure that the child is happy about the arrangements and confident about being left.
* Tell the child when you’ll be back, and make sure you’re back on time.
* Talk to him or her about it afterwards.

I think the age at which you leave a child alone depends very much on the child. My 12yo has been left since age 11 (when he started secondary school), but not before. My 10yo is itching to be left but I won't - especially if his older brother is there because I couldn't be sure there wouldn't be bloodshed! I tell the 10yo that it is illegal to leave them before they start secondary school so that he isn't constantly going on about being left. I know it's not the truth, but it makes for an easy life .

I absolutely would not leave my 7yo alone for even 5 minutes.

If the child is sensible, then leaving a 10yo alone for a short time is OK. 2 hours seems overly long for one so young - although, having said that, I used to come home from primary school to an empty house and I'm sure my mum didn't get in for 1-2 hours after that. Maybe we are over protective these days.

At the end of the day, you have to be pretty sure nothing untoward will happen whilst they are alone as you will be held responsible and possibly considered negligent. It all depends on the age of the child and what actually happens, so really it is your job to assess the risk and act accordingly.

No, I don't worry about leaving my 7 year-old. I was home alone from the same age every single day and I don't see that many dangers lurking in my own house. Most of my non-UK friends are much more chilled about leaving their children and letting their children walk places by themselves too. I think UK parents are very over-protective and their children often immature when it comes to looking after themselves or overly anxious.

This is one of those threads that will kick off I think because people obviously have very different views. Fairymum, I do agree that children need to have time alone as they get older in order to gain common sense and also feel a sense of achievement that they can cope on their own. However 7 years old is way, way too young to be left for two hours in my view. At seven she is still vulnerable. There are many many things that could happen in two hours that she would have no way of dealing with. I'm just thinking of things that have happened over the years to me - a burst pipe leading to a radiator which sprayed black water all over the living room, one horrible time a football came through a window spraying glass everywhere, and another time our heating system had a 'malfunction' that meant the pipe leading from the tank made the HUGEST banging noise I have ever heard in my life, louder than a motorhead gig! How would she have coped? And at 7 no matter HOW sensible the child, they are still prone to experimenting and doing crazy things - it only takes the one occasion for her to try something dangerous when she's alone...

Does she have a safe place to go to if necessary, eg a neighbours?

I would be seriously concerned about the length of time she is on her own. Five minutes, no prob. But two hours is putting her at risk.

I would definitely say that a 7yo shouldn't be left for 2 hours - 10 minutes would be OK. I'm not sure how I would feel about leaving a 10yo for that long but might be OK about it. I think Freckle's point about the danger of leaving siblings together is a good one from what I remember of my relationship with my sisters at that age!

I haven't read the other responses (will do in a minute) but my first reaction is

A) It ISN'T illegal for a child to be left alone.
B) Your ex didn't respond reasonably: threatening police etc isn't acceptable.
C) You know your child and how responsible he is. If YOU thought he would be ok in 1.75 hours and he knew what to do in an emergency/not to open the door/how to contact you then I think it's fine. Your call imo.
Right, now will read the other posts!

OK, I've read the thread now. Oh god, I bet this turns into one of those 'I turned my back and my car was on fire' threads. We need Aloha to remind us that trees don't come awake at night and hurt children or similar that she posted on a previous thread! :) I think 1.75 hours qualifies as 'a short time' i.e. this is well within nspcc - who are a charity, not The Law btw - guidelines (note, they're just guidelines as Captain Barbossa might say).

And the NSPCC stuff also says "You are the best judge of your child’s level of maturity and responsibility" (my emphasis). So in answer to the thread title, No, I do not think you're a Bad Parent portentia, unless there are hideous crimes you're not telling us about. I don't think this is one of them though!

So what were you all like at 7? Were you never left home alone? I was home alone every day and so were my friends. I had little tasks like putting washing on and putting the potatoes on to boil before my parents came back from work. These days parents are so frightened I think. My 4 year-old have friends who can't dress themselves or even zip their coats up!

It probably depend on where you live a little and also on your child. I am not sure if I will leave my son at home alone when he is 7. I will have to see. But I have seen threads on MN debating weather to leave 12 year-olds home alone and you start thinking when these children are ever going to learn independence....

I think that leaving a 7 year old alone for any amount of time is equal to abuse. You should reconsider your motives for doing this. If I knew someone who was doing this I would think seriously about phoning social services.

Oh here we go! Abuse? Really? And social services would say 'no offence has been committed'

I know when I was at school, me and my brother were left from secondary school age for up to 1.5hrs after school.

We were up dressed and had had breakfast by the time mum went to work at 8.10am, we left for school at 8.20am.

I would be home from school at 4pm and mum would be home at about 5.15pm depending on buses.

I was always to phone mum at work as soon as i got home, and she would phone us just as she left work.

My brother was 4 years older than me, so within the legal age i believe to "babysit"

There is a distinction between putting children 'at risk' and abuse of course but I know where people are coming from.

Getting your seven year old to do the 'little job' of boiling the potatoes for dinner while on their own and unsupervised is certainly putting them at risk. Lucky for you that nothing nasty happened.

With your DD, if she is on her own every day for two hours then I would really hope your DD could instead go to a friends house to be supervised by an adult or a childminder.

OK, social services would say 'no crime has been committed' but I personally wouldn't like to think that my approach to parenting was tolerated because 'no crime' had been committed! I'd hope to do rather better than that!

In my experience any child of 7 left alone for two hours each day would be of concern to social services who might well place them on the at risk register.

Fairymum, there are appropriate ways of teaching independence skills and this is not one of them. I am not talking about your view of other children being too mollycoddled and unable to do up their coats, but about your approach and I think they are different issues!