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Living overseas

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Talk to me about quality of life. UK vs USA

206 replies

ilovemydogandmrobama · 03/01/2010 19:49

So, DD is 3 and DS is almost 2. I am American, living in the UK, but am thinking of moving back to California. Both DCs have dual citizenship, so no problem with visas etc.

What are the good points living in the USA? What do British people miss about the UK?

OP posts:
CarmenSanDiego · 06/01/2010 13:21

And Duritzfan, thanks for your comment. That's encouraging! I may well drop you a mail

mathanxiety · 06/01/2010 15:22

Nigelslaterfan -- your observation about people generally living in little (or large) enclaves where you rarely encounter anyone who doesn't 'belong' there) is so true. And the wider implication of US society being fragmented, media personalities preaching to their various choirs, and the lack of any 'national' news or sense of identity (except when attacked) is true too.

I recall many get-togethers at my exILs' home in a very leafy neighbourhood with the same cast of characters in attendance every time, not merely from the same social rung, but all associated with the local boys' private school too, a niche within a niche.

CupOChristmasCheerfulYank · 06/01/2010 16:03

It is true that we do identify more locally than nationally. The regions are all so different.

It's odd that some of you mentioned feeling unwelcome or whatever. Maybe it's because I'm hypersocial and would have invited you for dinner on the spot along with "do you need help unpacking? Need someone to watch your DCs while you get things sorted out? Come over for a cup of coffee any time!" ad nauseum until you told me to piss off.

I think the walking thing depends on what you're used to. I walk to the school I work at every day if it's warmer than 20 below (fahrenheit) b/c I was brought up with a dad who shouted "There's no such thing as bad weather, just improper clothing!" as he shoved us out to play in three foot high snowdrifts. But if you're used to higher temps it'd be pretty uncomfortable I suppose!

GrimmaTheNome · 06/01/2010 16:04

Sydney, we were quite a way out of Philadelphia. The climate is pretty much as I stated (when they say it doesn't get below zero very often, remember they mean Farenheit!) but we certainly walked around downtown Philly with no problems.

But outside the city if you want to walk or cycle you really need a state park. (there are some good ones, I'm sure you'll soon find Valley Forge). I used to take my car just around the corner to be serviced, and although there was no sidewalk there was a grass verge so I walked back home rather than waiting ... and got beeped by passing cars! It was obviously not the done thing. Next time I was wiser and put on trainers and jogged back, that was evidently allowed

CupOChristmasCheerfulYank · 06/01/2010 16:18

I suppose living in a rural area where there are sidewalks everywhere, and even if there weren't there's practically no traffic, has totally spoiled me. What traffic there is goes at a snail's pace too! I walk everywhere and am going to get an awesome vintage-look bicycle with huge fenders and a shopping basket this spring...it's going to be fabulous!

Ok, that was a pointless post. I'm just extraordinarily excited about my future bike.

CarmenSanDiego · 06/01/2010 16:30

at Cup

mvemjsunp · 06/01/2010 16:59

Sydney,

My BIL moved to Philly when he finished university and has now been there for over 25 years. He loves it. He has gradually moved out from the inner city to the suburbs as he has become a dad matured.

He is a very laid back man but his eyes really lights up when he takes you on a tour of downtown.

The weather is a lot more temperate than the midwest, and in the summer, you can easily get away to the Jersey shore.

As with any old city in the US, there are places that are good to go to, and places that aren't. Philly is no exception. I am sure you will get an orientation when you arrive.

mvemjsunp · 06/01/2010 17:10

There is a lot of truth in what you say about the makeup of suburbs.

I read an excellent book called 'Suburban Nation' (it's about 10 years old now), which describes and explains USA town planning.

This book said that in a suburb and especially a subdivision, all the residents are very similar in terms of their economic levels. This is such a strong notion that people even have to move house when they get a job promotion (or job loss).

When we moved to the USA, DH's employer rented us a house in a suburb where our neighbours would have been of similar professional status to us - basically, if he had his career totally in the US, it was a place he could feasibly live. They gave us a relocation agent to dispel any wild notions that we might have had.

The exception is when you live in a traditional, old neighbourhood. There is more diversity, but I think that white collar colleagues might look upon you as a bit of a bohemian maverick if you chose to live in an old Brownstone with window airconditioners, next door to an excentric old widow on one side, and 10 college students on another.

The race relation in our city were awful (we even had a week-long curfew at one point), but if someone of color is of a high economic status, they are not discriminated against. A lot of race issues are really poverty issues, similar to the UK.

mathanxiety · 06/01/2010 17:18

ExMIL was horrified when exH and I bought a house in the area we moved into. She loved the far out burbs with the very heterogenous population and the idea of rubbing shoulders with anyone not completely like her in every way, including political opinions, was horrifying. She genuinely feared for our safety, with all those 'different' people around.

CupOChristmasCheerfulYank · 06/01/2010 18:20

Oh how weird! I love 'different' people, but then again that is the way I was raised. Also when I turned 18 I moved to a college town with a high 'international student' population and you can see the way the city is changing slowly to reflect that. I live in a more rural area now, and most of us are white and middle class. There is some diversity, however, and it's growing every year. I suppose if DH and I get a kid who's not our race when we adopt we'll might have our eyes opened about it a bit more.

paulaplumpbottom · 06/01/2010 18:47

Good things about the States are:
Even pavement
floruide in the water
Summer baseball games with stadium hotdogs
porch swings
Crickets and frogs singing at night
I have found people to be very friendly and I have wonderful non superficial friends there.
The 4th of July
Better cocktails
Teenagers are more polite, the ones here can sometimes be scary
College sports
Pottery Barn
Victoria's Secret

Good things about the UK

the proximity to the rest of the continent
The people here(NI) are also very friendly`
Better holiday time
Marks & Spencers food
People here actually know what goes on outside their borders
I can actually get my hair straightened. (At home they always want to give me Dolly Parton Hair
Prime Minister's Questions
David Cameron
Harvey Nichols

ilovemydogandmrobama · 06/01/2010 18:52

Great list, Paula!

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 06/01/2010 19:15

Do not under any circumstances eat the hot dogs if you're ever in the nosebleed section of Cellular Field, Chicago.

paulaplumpbottom · 06/01/2010 19:30

Sounds like you've had a bad experiance

mvemjsunp · 06/01/2010 19:35

Good point about hair, paula.

I liked the way they finished my hair in the US - I called it the 50 year old estate agent look.

I can't bring myself to ask that of my hairdresser here. I don't want to come across too old-fashioned, but I genuinely do like the slightly bouffant look (not the Dolly Parton mullet, though).

mathanxiety · 06/01/2010 19:39
Grin
nigelslaterfan · 06/01/2010 23:44

But in praise of the USA I have to say

The sound of crickets at night
Corn on the cob
Sitting on the porch in the summer
Seafood
Cornbread
Watermelon
Friendliness
Openness
Talking to strangers (I'm afraid I still do that)
A sense of space and possibility
Informality

In praise of the UK

Radio 4
Radio 4
Radio 4!
The newspapers
The sense of humour national and regional
Private Eye
The smell of bonfires
The British countryside
History History History
Old churches
Old castles
The coast usually not Owned By Anyone
Racial integration (in some places.....)
Humour humour humour humour..... I can't live without that

nigelslaterfan · 06/01/2010 23:49

pancake stacks with bacon and maple syrup.......

Earlybird · 07/01/2010 02:34

Some interesting observations here:

www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/books/review/Dyer-t.html?em

nooka · 07/01/2010 06:04

Oh the last few threads have reminded me of somethign we really noticed in New York/New Jersey, and that was casual and explicit racism. Now I am not saying that this doesn't exist in the UK, but we found this much more openly express in a way that really startled us - couple of examples, when dh was looking at apartments the landlady of one of them (who he had been getting on quite well with) said as she thought he had decided to take it that she was so glad he was white and made some derogatory comments about whichever ethnic group she disliked (I can't remember if this was Hispanic or black or Korean). Being dh he quickly told her he was no longer interested and why. When we were at a fast food restaurant and the Hispanic server was making a bit of a muddle of the order the manager came over, and apologised profusely, blaming it all on the poor chap because he was Hispanic and therefore stupid (although it was almost certainly our English accents that were the problem). We were just amazed that anyone could say such things so openly, and really offended that people should think we shared their views.

Another negative was the total lack of accessability to any land that wasn't designated a park. We lived near the sea, but to even see it much you had to drive for a good half an hour plus, because all the shoreline was taken up with private estates (known locally as McMansions). Once we stopped for five minutes on a drive by a small beach with a great view, and the cops arrived almost instantly and moved us along...

Baseball was great though! We miss it

BrokenArm · 07/01/2010 07:14

OP specifically mentioned California or I would't have contributed. I'm not sure that talk about NJ/Midwest/etc. is that relevant.

Carmen: I am surprised what you say about San Diego. Growing up there it was a very community oriented experience -- with people generally having close neighbourly relations whatever area they lived in. Kids at SD high schools very much identify themselves by which part of town they came from. My dad still feels strong community links where he lives (south Mission). Maybe a lot has changed, though, since I actually lived there. (shrug)

I think you'd find a notice cultural differences moving to Northern California: much more left-wing politically*, more intellectual, more awareness of environmental issues, less materialistic. The reverence for San Francisco drives me crazy (it's just another city, guys). And the vote against gay marriage made me feel hugely disappointed in California, too.

The state really is facing huge budget cuts, though. And urbanisation/expansion proceeds at a frightful pace (if that type of thing bothers you).

Healthcare anecdote: 3 adult relatives living with mental illness disability. They live on benefits in decent apartments in decent neighbourhoods, they have enough income to pay for basic clothing, food and electricity and even some Christmas presents (confirming what SofiaAmes said). But their budgets don't extend to running a car. Did I mention that living in SoCal with a car is awkward? And 2 of them have raised children mostly using just their bus pass did I mention how difficult that can be in SoCal? One SIL hasn't talked to her son's high school counsellor he's getting straight As and should be college bound, but it's a 2+ hour bus ride each way and she can't face it with her unpredictable health problems (can flare up between morning and afternoon).

Other SIL needs a hip replacement: she can get that done anytime, but her medicare doesn't cover Dental. She's been told for Hip replacement to be a success she should have all major dental work done first. She allowed herself to become almost crippled (she can barely walk a few feet unaided) before resorting to "borrowing" the money for the dental work from a relative. Now she's waiting for dental work to be completed... then she can finally get hip done, and hopefully will be mobile again a few months after that (maybe 4 months from now).

Oh, and did I mention that she's supposed to be functioning unable to walk unaided more than 10 feet, with only a bus pass? She's lucky, though, other relatives have helped her out with access to car.

See, the health/social care safety net is there, but it doesn't work very humanely.

paulaplumpbottom · 07/01/2010 11:54

Nigelslaterfan said the British Country side and I want to also add that to my list but I alos want to add how I love the way people here will take a walk even in the rain. The way they grumble about the weather but never let it stop them from going outdoors.

To the American list I wanted to add Covered Dish Suppers. Worth going to church for.

mvemjsunp · 07/01/2010 14:20

We do have covered dish suppers in UK churches, but we call them 'bring and share'. Same idea.

We also have pancakes, bacon and maple syrup. If you want these things, then make them - not rocket science.

paulaplumpbottom · 07/01/2010 15:10

There is bacon here. I like it better than bacon in the States, but there is no equivelent to Jimmy Dean sausage.

ilovemydogandmrobama · 07/01/2010 15:28

Makes me laugh though that potluck is called American Supper

OP posts:
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