Talk to me about quality of life. UK vs USA

[ilovemydogandmrobama]

So, DD is 3 and DS is almost 2. I am American, living in the UK, but am thinking of moving back to California. Both DCs have dual citizenship, so no problem with visas etc.

What are the good points living in the USA? What do British people miss about the UK?

Oh God I hear you. I genuinely don't seem to be able to plan another baby because we cannpt find childcare to work around my shifts, and the gp's are getting on a bit really.

Too crap when the big machine interferes with this stuff. Too crap.

I take it a kick ass insuranc plan would either not come with your job, or be utterly unaffordable?

Carmen, your friend could go to an emergency room and be seen right away if the cough is severe. Hospitals write off millions every year in care for indigent patients.

I pay $285/month for health insurance for myself and the two dcs. Dh has his free through the veterans administration. Plus, there is a new health care bill working its way through committees atm.

I wouldn't let health care drive my decision, tbh.

Articles from the Chicago Tribune recently regarding nursing home conditions in Illinois, one of the wealthiest states in the US. The Tribune ran a series on conditions in nursing homes after a rash of attacks on patients. State psychiatric hospitals in the US have been emptying and closing over the last 30 years -- Illinois has solved the problem of housing some of the mentally ill by placing them in nursing homes with vulnerable and poor elderly people.

Regarding the education system and funding the state I am most familiar with is Illinois, which ranks lowest, AFAIK, in provision of funding for schools. Local taxes provide the bulk of funding, with some funds available from the federal govt. These have been tied to performance since No Child Left Behind. The disparities in facilities, quality of teachers, and educational outcomes that result from the funding arrangement and the deeply entrenched segregation and other social problems that contribute to those poor outcomes are very stark in Illinois. Travelling from Chicago's impoverished west side, crossing one street into Oak Park, or going north from Uptown (Chicago) into Evanston is like crossing over into a different world. The schools on either side of these dividing lines reflect the huge differences between the suburbs and the city. Evanston HS and Oak Park and River Forest HS are very highly regarded public (state) high schools, while the city schools on the west side and in the Uptown neighbourhood are renowned for their gang fights, huge dropout rates, failure to meet even the very low State of Illinois standards in reading, maths and science, peeling paint, abysmal lack of facilities everything you wouldn't want for your child is available, free (property taxes are paid only by property owners -- they pass on the tax bill to renters of course), in wide swathes of Chicago, while high quality schools are available in the suburbs, free (but you do pay very high property taxes, which are the main funding of the schools, in Evanston, Oak Park and River Forest).

Carmen, if your friend were in the UK, she might get seen right by her GP after a 2 hour wait. He would then send her to local hospital for chest xray where she would wait in filth for another 4 hours to get xray. Then a man would show up in lab coat covered in someone else's blood, refuse to wash his hands and eventually do a check and an xray. Then send your friend home telling her that she didn't have pneumonia and prescribe her some antibiotics for the simple chest infection she had. Then a month later when she now is very ill and goes back to her GP because she can't breathe enough to stand up in chem lab, he tells her that he has just sent her a letter (even though he has her phone number) a few days ago to come in urgently because the hospital had made a mistake and she had pneumonia not a simple chest infection. At this point your friend is sent back to the hospital for a 2nd xray, almost turned away (despite being visibly extremely ill) because she had just had one a month ago and then eventually over the next few days diagnosed with double pneumonia and prescribed two lengthy doses of antibiotics.....All of this happened to dh on the lovely NHS last year. As pointed out by someone else, your friend has plenty of options in the USA and she needs to inform herself a little better of what they are.
There are homeless all over the streets of every major city in the world whether it's the USA or England. It's a universal problem about how we as a society deal with our mentally ill (which most of the homeless are). And it's a serious issue that both Americans and the British need to address. There are no simple solutions.

The US can be very kind to the poor. It's not so kind to the lower middle class. Like me. Ah well, that's life.

If you're somewhere between indigent and covered by health insurance, even the most basic kind (which is where most people are) going to an emergency room for a cough could well result in getting a bill for thousands of dollars. All those x-rays and cubicle charges add up to whopping amounts of money, if you go to a private hospital emergency room / A&E. The other option is the county hospital.

Here are some mixed reviews of Cook County Hospital, aka Stroger Hospital, Chicago. Stroger Hosp is the main campus of the Cook County public health system, the jewel in the crown, so to speak. It's a good idea to read all of the reviews. They are a terrific snapshot of healthcare in the US.

A good friend of mine was in the UK visiting her husband's family and she dislocated her shoulder. She said the health care she received there was horrific. However, it's worth noting that her grandfather, and by extension her family, is one of the wealthiest in our state, so any care she got here in the US was always of the best quality.

I had great insurance (from the state) when I was pregnant w/DS, but after he was born I was dropped from it b/c we made too much money (yet I can't afford healthcare on my own.) My DH and DS have very good insurance from DH's work, and I've always been thrilled with the care DS has received. But...I worry about myself. The doctors in our town know I don't have insurance and are (on the rare occasions I go) extremely helpful about keeping my costs down. But I worry that I'll miss something b/c I don't go very often and then I'll get really sick.

That is such rubbish, Sofia.

Perhaps we could agree that both the UK and the US have many lovely points, depending on where you live and what your personal values, interests, etc., are. And that neither healthcare system is perfect, but hopefully they are changing for the better, and let's face it, both are a damn sight better than the hospitals in the Congo or some such. So whatdoyasay?

(Pollyanna emoticon)

I say Amen.

None of us need to walk 3 day to a clinic whilst in labour, risking rape murder and kidnap on the way. Of our children that is. To find all the drugs have been taken for the soldiers and it's too late for the baby anyway.

So there.

So, healthcare aside. WHat about the other things ilove. WOuld you be able to work get ont he housing ladder, near family etc etc. Schools?

Hi .. we lived in Northern California - San Francisco, Sausalito and Ross (Marin ) .. We came back five years ago ..
We loved it , and yes I would go back in a heartbeat .. Healthcare is the scary thing .. although we used the Marin County Hospital and it was much better than an NHS hospital here..
When we used our private insurance there is no comparison to the NHS.. Healthcare was spectacular..the way it should be..

Schools where we were were great too.. And I made better friends in the USA than I ever have in the UK..I really didnt find Americans to be cold at all - I found them to be the most welcoming and supportive people I have ever known ..

I would struggle to go back to coping with USA holidays ..Hubby had 10 days in his last contract - OMG !!

Apart fromt hat, we have never been heathier than when we were there..Recycling was far better than here, the things to do are so plentiful ..and I loved the seasonal weather that Northern Cali gets... the rainy season, the cold winter - last year we even had snow!

But then you know you are going to get months and months of balmy sunshine all summer to make up for the cold snap ! The one thing I really missed was balmy evenings ..somehow they never happen in Ca..

if you have any specific questions about the SF area, Im happy to help if I can ... email me at [email protected]

x

I don't doubt the horrible things many of you mention in America, but must say I have no experience of any of them.

I/we moved from London to a thriving 'secondary' city in America.

What I like about America:

Physical space - large yards/gardens, good sized houses at affordable prices (my 4 bed house here costs the same as my 2 bed London flat).

Transportation - I like the ease and convenience of a car. Yes, i miss walking in a city and would like the option of public transport (which is largely non-existent where we are). But I don't miss going out in the pouring rain to walk to/from school, waiting at a bus stop in the bad weather for infrequent/too crowded buses, trudging around with heavy shopping bags, etc.

Healthy Lifestyle - while I think Americans can be too puritanical about drinking alcohol (friends here 'allow' themselves 2 glasses of wine on a 'big' night out), the regularity of prodigious drinking in the UK is unhealthy and astonishing. Perhaps it is the weather in America that makes it possible to plan outdoor sports/activities with some certainty, but most people i know here are quite active physically.

Charitable Giving - while it is true, that there is not the same government 'safety net' here with little equivalent of council flats, Housing Authority flats, etc there is a gigantic moral imperative for those who are 'fortunate' to 'give back'. While the government might not look out for you nearly as well as in the UK, churches and private charities/foundations fill the gap admirably. Almost everyone I know did some sort of charity work (in addition to giving) this past holiday season. Whether working to raise funds for the Children's Hospital, giving toys to families on the Angel Tree so they could have gifts for Christmas, contributing food to food banks, delivering meals to those who need them, etc, almost everyone here does something for those in need. Americans give (time, money) at an astonishing rate.

What I miss about London:

Friends - as a generalisation, people in America, are very schedule driven. There doesn't seem the same easy ability to be spontaneous. i think people genuinely want to be friendly/meet up here, but actually making it happen can be tricky (hence the impression of superficiality).

Diversity - it is here, no doubt. But you have to make a concerted effort to 'find' it. Many cultures tend to 'stick together', so there are Mexican or Kurdish or Asian shopping areas and neighbourhoods. I think it is as much a function of various nationalities/cultures 'sticking together' as Americans being insular.

Culture - I miss wandering out to a world class exhibition with little/no advance planning. I feel envious that I can't go to a wonderful event at the South Bank, or see the people on the plinth in Trafalgar Square (or whatever other event is going on). There is a fabulous new symphony hall where i live, one of the best children's theatres in the country based here, a vibrant music scene, a stunning exhibit of paintings by Georgia O'keefe at the museum currently, etc but it is not the same as London.

I'm sure I'll think of (many) more, but will stop this essay for now.

When I lived in the US (Pennsylvania) I badly missed public footpaths.

Even where you could walk, it was usually too bloody hot or too bloody cold except in fall. You couldn't sit on the grass without getting chiggers, or under a tree without a big tick burrowing into your DHs bald head.

Even the vegetation includes poison ivy. I was so glad to get back to the UK where you aren't likely to meet anything worse than a nettle.

I came to understand why people walked around the mall so much.

Having said that, the parts of California I've been to are much nicer than PA, and Washington state is pretty great

Earlybirds point about 'Friends' strikes a chord. It took us quite a while to realise that when people in the US said things like, 'we must do dinner', it would never happen unless you immediately fixed up a date.

Ah, mall walking clubs

American living in the UK here. I'm not really interested in getting into the whole debate; I think most has been covered here.

I just thought I'd point out that the experiences we have making friends in our new home-countries is going to be unique to who we are, and where we're from originally. I know the UK ladies are complaining (rightly so, if they're used to it) of the lack of 'popping round for a cup of tea' in the US, but honestly, perhaps you were in the 'popping round for a cup of tea' loop when you were in the UK because you were British? As an expat here in the UK, I don't find people to have this relaxed attitude at all. I still remember utterly shocking the elderly lady next door when I 'popped round' to bring some excess cookies (chocolate chip- so yes, cookies!) I'd baked. Eventually she was okay, and I've met a few more neighbors, but none of them have initiated any contact with us.

Having a baby has helped connect us to more people, and yes, we've made some friends. I'd say overall, though, that it was easier for me to make friends in the US. (or, in Australia, where I lived for a period. I found people there to be very open and casual, and you could have people over for a casual BBQ and vice versa. I don't feel I can do that as easily here.)

We've been here long enough that we've made friends. I'm not complaining, merely trying to say that there are differences everywhere, and some places you feel more comfortable than others. Feeling comfortable and 'knowing how things work' really goes a way towards helping you assimilate.

Cakewench,

Maybe we all grow up knowing the codewords we need to be able to get involved in casual relationships with our neighbours, but that these codewords do not transfer to other cultures.

mvemjsunp, was it a "superb" british education or just bad parents that taught you to throw insults when you don't have anything intelligent to say? I seem to remember a few posts back you were very busy telling me not to insult people and now your are quite happily insulting me.

huh?

Philadelphia is a fantastic and very walkable/cyclable city - at least the downtown areas are, the suburbs are probably just as bad as Grimma suggests. I'm envious of you, would love to live there.

cakewench I lived in the US as a child and in the UK as an child and adult and what you say has a lot of truth.

In the lovely affluent suburb I lived in as a child, every new neighbour was welcomed widely by locals. People appearing with food and visits is the norm. In the UK it's much rarer and I find the Brits more reserved.

However I think that's partly mentality, the Brits by and large are more reserved, less open, less extrovert and certainly less casual than Americans and Australians or Canadians.

But another factor is that in my experience you tend to live in much more wealth/class demarcated areas in the US than in the UK. In the UK in many places there is a huge diversity of wealth, class, status, culture etc and that makes easy openness a prospect to be approached more carefully.

IWhere I grew up in the US, everyone we knew was almost without exception white, middle class, professional and affluent. When we moved to the UK the social mix was immediately vast around us. In the US in the 70s I gave heard from a local and a good authority that Estate Agents in Wellesley Mass wouldn't show black or Jewish people properties in certain areas. I'm sure that goes for anywhere really snooty but it's still shocks me to hear that.

I think it's easier to be open when everyone you meet is pretty much the same. But you don't get bbqs where people are invited from the 'wrong side of the tracks' so much do you?

Also I've spent many visits in the US as an adult all over the place, sometimes working, once on a long holiday. What I miss from the UK is the sense of national news and identity.

In New England it does feel parochial and the local paper is usuall "Dog crosses road at a funny angle". And trying to listen to public service radio when every 30 seconds they ask for money makes me want to die after a week.

When I get home i run at a newspaper and all but hug it and straight away stick the radio on.

I could never live far away from Radio 4 and they never ask me for money!
(pause while poster runs to kiss all her radios.....)

Nigelslaterfan, I was trying to explain the national identity thing to my dh. I really noticed it when the whole RATM/X Factor thing was happening in the UK. In the US, you just don't get those sort of things happening here that everyone knows about and has an opinion on. It's really hard to find common frames of reference with people - music, sports, politics, tv are all too diluted.

That's why every chat show host has done nothing but Tiger Woods gags for months because finally there's a common reference. I love standup, but find it useless here because comics end up going for big, hack generalities (difference between black/white people, men/women, cats/dogs) because anything more specific loses people.