Dissatisfied by expat life

[Froginboilingwater]

Our family lives in Asia as an expat, and I'm increasingly feeling that this isn't good in the long run. I wonder if I'm "wasting away" through lack of social contact, career opportunities and all the other things that add to a full life (hence my username).

To give a sense of our situation, I'll provide some background. DH, our two children, and I moved to Asia through his work. Prior to this, we spent five years living in Norway, also through DH's work. DH is German and I'm British, and he works for a big multi-national (albeit one headquartered in Germany). Materially we have a good life (free housing, good salary, schooling paid for, and we have built up a good financial buffer), but I feel like I may regret this in the long-run.

I knew when I got together with DH that this career was his dream, and to begin with, it was exciting. I met him in Germany, and I'm not averse to travel and seeing the world. There have been good things about being in Norway and now Asia, with some travel (which is now easier after Covid), so I don't want to knock it all.

I've been able to get remote work (I'm not allowed to work in the country) which also is quite interesting. I don't really have progression with it, but I can use to my technical skills to some extent. But I see former colleagues and friends getting promotions, and I can't help feel jealous.

DH can go into the office and meet with his German colleagues, will visit factories of suppliers around the country and has a demanding life. I on the other hand, work at home, and while I do things like go to the gym, or take my laptop to a cafe to do some work, I feel very isolated. Because of my remote work, I end up working late hours to have meetings after the children have gone to bed.

The other problem is that after our posting, the plan would be to go back to Germany, where I'd still be a foreigner. Living overseas, I don't get an opportunity to really practice German at any great level, and I don't feel I'm integrating or building a network in Germany. I feel at this rate, I'll always be an outsider, a ghost, whether I'm in Germany, or on another posting.

I look at British expat groups, but it seems very much about wives going for cocktails in the middle of the day (sorry if that seems unfair), and that's not me. I have technical skills.

I love my DH, I value his career, I realise it's important to him, but with all this, I also feel a little distant from his. We have two very different experiences of our expat life, and I don't know if I can do this for another 20-30 years.

Are there positive steps I can take to change my mindset, or is the problem simply too great? I wanted to post here because I think in AIBU/Chat, I'd get responses of "go home", but here, there are people who have lived the expat life, and like me, do see the benefits and drawbacks.

I suppose the reality is different from the idea. Not that it’s all bad, and the Uk a few years ago (we became expats in 2016) wasn’t all perfect.

yes. Short term work visa and planning to go home (or elsewhere)? expat
permanently moved somewhere: immigrant

@GoldenCagedBird exactly this ! I had a very technical role and enjoy lunches and wine and cocktails, the too are not mutually exclusive. I’m not in that role at the moment as I chose an easier part time role to be more around for my kids while we settled in a new country, while I knew my husband would be working a demanding role. I’m ok with it for now as it means I can be more social and enjoy the country we live in. Which is important for me and ones of the ways I cope with being to far from my family. It doesn’t mean I don’t have a brain or can’t converse !

You only get one life. You don't know how long you get. If you're unhappy, make a change.
I would say talk to your husband about it and maybe he can be encouraging and supportive. Maybe take on more so you have more time to join clubs and take up language classes.
You both deserve to be happy. Not just him. But he may well not even be aware you're struggling.

If you wait and wait and wait to be happy. Life will end at some point. Might as well try going after what makes you happy.
Although it's hard when your life is tied to another person.

@Froginboilingwater I had a small baby so didn’t go straight back to work but I was able to get a job when i started looking.
I have to say that I found it incredibly hard in BJ, I was very lonely and my DH found it hard to relate as he was at work all day and had great colleagues and I had nothing to do…

(About the only) good thing about our lockdowns was that it prompted people to set up remote groups and clubs.

Certainly the bookgroup my local library set up has continued online (not least because we bizarrely ended up with some Americans in it)!

There have to be some online "learn German" groups (though I suppose Oz might be closer to your timezone)? Goethe Institute might be a good place to start.

As somebody who didn't find German easy, it would be well worth making sure your children get exposure to Mandarin and German if you can. Imagine how useful that will be when they start looking for work!

I agree with not automatically ruling out all expat groups.
I didn't work in Latin America and several of my expat friends didn't as well although some did.
We were all smart, well educated people with professional backgrounds that we went back into later.
I do see that some groups might be during the day while you are working but some might be at weekends or evenings.

OP I get it. We worked in Middle East, On fringe of the country. Different people from Capital City. Very few spoke English.We picked up enough local language for shopping. No driving. 15 ex-pat families.

DH loved his job, great experience which he used for years. I learned nothing. It was as if it was an open prison.
Difficult for people to understand unless they have experienced it.
Make plans to leave that place, Your DH stays and shovels money back to you.
You start reconstruction of your self and family in Europe. Some of our wives did that and the Hs did another tour solo.

Hi, I'm a German living in the UK. I have sort of a nice life here, but I haven't always been happy here, especially after Brexit. What helps me is being on holiday in Germany twice a year and also the knowledge that Germany is almost "next door" and so close. I think you will feel much happier in Germany, because the UK is so close. German people are also generally quite fond of British people and you can join meetup to make friends.

There should also be more job opportunities in Germany if you have technical skills and qualifications.

Dear,

my first advice is talk to your husband. He need to know how you are feeling, otherwise at some point you will resent him for this when he doesn’t even have a clue of what is going on.

so my advices will be the follow:

1. Get a language school and take German classes, don’t take classes at home otherwise you will continue to keep isolated… the important part is to built a life outside your home
2. check apps for groups… that is what has work for me (moved to UK) and a lot of times is meeting people on your same situation
3. if you feel the British group is not with the same expectations as you, look for groups of other nationalities (why don’t you try German since within 2 years you will be going back)

I will say you have to built a life, try different hobbies until you get something you like. WFH is quite lonely if that is the only interaction you have besides your immediate family.

and also try to get a therapist even if it is remote, but at least you have a chance to talk to someone

I recommend the Goethe Institute for German lessons!

Culturally, China must be v tough. My brother has lived there for 3 years and found it very hard and isolating, esp over Covid.

Germany is a different proposition for many reasons. More accessible. An easier language to learn. Closer to the uk, geographically. It would be easier to forge your own life?

The level of intellectual functioning on this site can be woeful. People unable to understand what the topic is, charging off down dead ends like bewildered wildebeests, inserting their own particular obsession into a thread despite it not being in the least bit relevant. It’s utterly wearing.

An expat is somebody who comes with a work contract and plans to leave. Not who just comes. By extension, because the OP's DH is there for work, she is there as an expat. An immigrant intends to stay.

But British pensioners in Spain, that don't plan to leave, call themselves expats

I think that they all intend to leave, either to a British care home or in a box.

I'm an expat and trailing spouse too, and agree that it can be really bloody hard. At our last posting I was able to work in country but in our current country I can't as I don't speak the language fluently. And the first 18 months here our DH was home schooled because the schools here remained closed for a ludicrous amount of time because of covid. So I didn't meet barely anyone in our first 2 yrs here which was awful and I did feel like I was slowly losing my mind. We almost left because of the strain of it all. But, it got better and I'm glad we stuck it out. Once I had the time, I got stuck in to language lessons, attended groups, started committing myself properly to my hobby and going out to meet people. Some of the groups can be hit and miss, I've met plenty of people at them who only care about how senior or important your partner is, who you know and how useful you are to them, so I avoid those types of groups and events because they are horrible. But 3 yrs in I've found some good friends and get out and about, and feel a lot less isolated and bored.
So I'd say find ways to keep yourself busy, talk to your husband about how you're feeling and what your thoughts are - sure, it's a big ask but he asked big of you too when you moved abroad. It's fair to put it all on the table and see what comes of it.

Our compromise was to apply for a posting closer to home, which we got. Once we move I can get home a lot easier for weekends if I struggle with making friends and meeting people there. I know of a family too where the husband works for a big European company - she and her child live in the UK, she works there, and her husband comes home every weekend from Europe. It's not an option for everyone, but it works well for them, so maybe this is something you can explore too if your husbands job is going to be in Germany.

Just contributing from the point of a long term expat who came back to England almost two years ago. I was desperate to come back and feel at home again, but in reality I don't. I have found it hard to settle and I miss the close friendships that exist in expat life. I wish I hadn't come back, I realise now that our lives were far better abroad

I know of a family too where the husband works for a big European company - she and her child live in the UK, she works there, and her husband comes home every weekend from Europe. It's not an option for everyone, but it works well for them, so maybe this is something you can explore too if your husbands job is going to be in Germany.

That could work for a while but I think longer term it would make most sense for op's husband to try to get a job in the UK. He speaks fluent English, whereas the op doesn't speak any German.

Thsi really resonates with me as well.

Reading your post, I really feel for you OP. I was a more or less trailing spouse for a few years and, while I loved the travel and new places, the negative impact on my career and my loss of self-esteem were utterly soul-destroying at times.

I did 3 years in China and I got a huge amount from it, especially the first 18 months when I was taking a deliberate career break, learning Mandarin, travelling a lot. I did freelance just to keep my hand in, but was actively looking for work when I got pregnant with DC1. And no one in China is going to employ a pregnant woman 🤦🏻‍♀️ I did carry on studying, had good friends there (I think you have to have quite an adventurous outlook to move to China in the first place!) and loved my time with my little one. BUT as 2 years turned into 3, we started talking about what next.

And crucially, my DH understood that I was beginning to struggle with poor job prospects, loss of identity. We jointly agreed to move somewhere where it would be easier for me to work (English-speaking) and I did go back full time when DC1 was 16 months. When we moved again later (after more DC), again it was very much a joint decision. And now I would call myself an immigrant in my new country because we very much plan to stay. I've just gone back to work full time and I'm so glad I didn't have any more time out. I love where we are, love the lifestyle, love speaking another language, am amazed to watch my kids becoming bilingual.

But crucially this third country was a mutually agreed compromise between me and DH. He had more exotic offers, better paid, but I felt I had to be able to have a career and he understood that. We turned down quite a lot of cushy Asian roles in favour of a European city that's close enough for family and friends to visit often and where I already spoke the language well (DH can work pretty much anywhere). It's not to say we didn't argue about things, but fundamentally I think we always agreed that these decisions had to work for both of us. We each had the right to veto anything.

It sounds to me like you need to figure out what you really want (is it career? Established friends? English environment) and have an honest conversation with your DH that compromise is a two-way street. I think you'll be able to enjoy the good parts of 'now' more if you know the future is what you want.

@Froginboilingwater So on your distinction between expat and immigrant, once the fixed-term contracts end and you choose to settle somewhere, if it’s not Germany or the U.K. you choose to settle, then you’ll classify yourselves as immigrants not expats?

I don’t hear ‘expat’ used to describe people working in the U.K. from Asia for example on fixed term contracts. I’ve always thought of the distinction therefore between ‘expat’ and ‘immigrant’ as fundamentally racist, tbh. Though plenty of people here seem happy to use it. Am I wrong?

And no not being ‘woke’, have thought this distinction is racist forever. I’ve a sibling who worked in high-value non-fixed term contracts in Asia, which first made me question the terms used. Expat brunches etc.

I'd say I'm an immigrant if I settle in Germany, yes.

It's not really the point of the discussion, but it is commonly understood that an expat describes an employee (and their family) sent by their employer for a fixed period overseas. I can't talk about the Asian employee you refer to as I don't know their situation.

I won't deny there's something slightly 'colonial' about being an expat. In our case, we live in better housing, attend different schools, and go to different hospitals to ordinary locals. But none of that changes the fact that it's not wrong to describe ourselves as expats.

I was an expat in a SE Asian country for 5 years. I got a qualification in teaching English as a second language while i was there...mine was a CELTA from the British Council but friends of mine did a TESOL from various providers. It did enable me to legally work freelance part time ...don't know about the visa requirements where you are tho.. in the international school where my daughter went. I started off volunteering as a 1:1 tutor with a couple of students then a paid position opened up in the programme they ran teaching English to other expat parents. It's quite a useful portable qualification to get tho the studying was quite intense! But the part time work that followed gave me a good balance of enjoying family time and something for me meeting lovely people!