Dissatisfied by expat life

[Froginboilingwater]

Our family lives in Asia as an expat, and I'm increasingly feeling that this isn't good in the long run. I wonder if I'm "wasting away" through lack of social contact, career opportunities and all the other things that add to a full life (hence my username).

To give a sense of our situation, I'll provide some background. DH, our two children, and I moved to Asia through his work. Prior to this, we spent five years living in Norway, also through DH's work. DH is German and I'm British, and he works for a big multi-national (albeit one headquartered in Germany). Materially we have a good life (free housing, good salary, schooling paid for, and we have built up a good financial buffer), but I feel like I may regret this in the long-run.

I knew when I got together with DH that this career was his dream, and to begin with, it was exciting. I met him in Germany, and I'm not averse to travel and seeing the world. There have been good things about being in Norway and now Asia, with some travel (which is now easier after Covid), so I don't want to knock it all.

I've been able to get remote work (I'm not allowed to work in the country) which also is quite interesting. I don't really have progression with it, but I can use to my technical skills to some extent. But I see former colleagues and friends getting promotions, and I can't help feel jealous.

DH can go into the office and meet with his German colleagues, will visit factories of suppliers around the country and has a demanding life. I on the other hand, work at home, and while I do things like go to the gym, or take my laptop to a cafe to do some work, I feel very isolated. Because of my remote work, I end up working late hours to have meetings after the children have gone to bed.

The other problem is that after our posting, the plan would be to go back to Germany, where I'd still be a foreigner. Living overseas, I don't get an opportunity to really practice German at any great level, and I don't feel I'm integrating or building a network in Germany. I feel at this rate, I'll always be an outsider, a ghost, whether I'm in Germany, or on another posting.

I look at British expat groups, but it seems very much about wives going for cocktails in the middle of the day (sorry if that seems unfair), and that's not me. I have technical skills.

I love my DH, I value his career, I realise it's important to him, but with all this, I also feel a little distant from his. We have two very different experiences of our expat life, and I don't know if I can do this for another 20-30 years.

Are there positive steps I can take to change my mindset, or is the problem simply too great? I wanted to post here because I think in AIBU/Chat, I'd get responses of "go home", but here, there are people who have lived the expat life, and like me, do see the benefits and drawbacks.

When you went back, were you able to get back easily into work, after a few years working less?

Actually, for a rare occasion, we're off to dinner at some German business club where I'll be on a table with German businessmen (or women, but probably the former) where they'll end up speaking English for me. But maybe I ask around about a German teacher.

I think the "chin up and crack on" is possibly the best advice for this posting, but you need to look longer term.
It sounds like DH's job is likely to involve a number of expat postings. So you need to look into how you can stay fulfilled and content in a variety of locations. And yes, part of that is finding a way to find "your tribe". It's fine to discount the brunch group - but that isn't everyone. So, who are your tribe? And how to find them??? Personally, I found them through volunteering - both with charities and the kids schools.
My (technical but no chance of being remote) career is over following a posting to a different country, but one considered a hard post, like China is. I've made my peace with it now. The expat postings have been brilliant for DH, and have given the kids a very much global outlook and knowledge. I've got a "little job", with an amazing pension. I'm pottering til the kids finish school (both at secondary). I might consider retraining at 50. Can you slightly redefine your role to make working Asian hours more likely?
Or, focus on what you will need to life in Germany (Is Germany the right final location for you?).

A trailing spouse is a tough gig. But a long (and very long!) term plan in needed to give you what you need.

I was never comfortable calling myself an "expat" when I lived and worked (temporarily) abroad.

Zodfa so did you describe yourself as an immigrant?

Fixed term postings are hard. To make living abroad work you have to throw yourself into local live. But it takes about two or three years to really build your life abroad, you are only there for three years.

Its why most just socialise with each other and do things like drink cocktails. A pretty boring life to be honest.

@Froginboilingwater

Not for ever but while our son finishes school (he's 14) then we want to work remotely but live anywhere and everywhere . We won't return to the UK and after living overseas I now realise I am looking for a more outdoor/stress-free life. But the last 3 years has taught be to be more gunhoe and try so many more new things ....you never know where it will take you and who you will meet.

I was an expat in Asia for about 6 years, went out single and met my DH while there. I did not live in China but travelled there frequently for work.

I'm really surprised that you say that the only options for socialising seem to be women who not only do not work but who, it seems to you, are quite content not to have jobs or careers. I would also say that liking brunch or cocktails and having a career are not mutually exclusive!

Of my own expat friendship grouping I can think of three where the woman was the higher earner whose job had brought the family to Asia and at least 10 single professional women. It was possible to work where we lived so lots of women had found jobs locally after their partners were transferred to Asia, most of my friends were couple who were both professionals. The men with non-working wives tended to be ones who had married locals.

Perhaps China is different for couples who are already together when one has the chance to be posted there, in that perhaps due to the inability of trailing spouses to work the couples tend to be ones where the woman is content not to have a job. But I'm surprised you're not meeting more single expat professional women there on their own account. Perhaps Covid really messed things up.

Anyway, I was surprised to see in a later post that you clarified that you were working "almost full time", as it sounded initially like you were just doing odd bits and pieces of remote work.

Your kids are still really young, many many women take a bit of a career break at this time anyway, even in their "home" jurisdictions, and you have a great situation with childcare and an unforgettable experience of living in a fascinating country. It sounds like the jealousy of former colleagues (and maybe a bit of your husband?) is eating you up a bit though, that's not a criticism as I have felt similar in the past. Can you take a step back and see this as a longer game, and reframe this interlude in your mind as a privilege that perhaps your former colleagues might envy? As long as you feel your husband respects you as a professional; that is really important.

Can you spend the time studying; perhaps complete a PhD? Then when you return to Germany; you may have more career options

In a word, yes. To both.

I'm an expat in Europe. My DH moved here 5 years ago and I joined 3 years ago in the midst of the pandemic. I have a 2.5 year old. I gave up my career to move but would have been made redundant in the pandemic anyway. I did feel alot of resentment to begin with but now 3 years later things feel easier and I'm able to focus on myself a bit more. You can make friends more easily than you think, I found joining mums WhatsApp groups, meeting apps, sport has all helped. I've been able to do some freelance remote work but nothing that connects me to the place I'm living so I've decided to do an course and retrain, so I can hopefully find employment here. It takes a long time to settle in a new place, especially a new country. You need to work out the pros/cons and what you want in the long term. I've lived in 3 different places and sometimes feel like nowhere is home anymore but ultimately I know I'm happiest where I am now and that if I want to stay there are some challenges to overcome, which I see as an exciting thing not a negative. I know that the UK is a bit of mess right now and my quality of life is so much better here, life is easier - you might feel that too (being able to afford nanny, schooling, private healthcare etc) these things make a huge difference. Try to embrace the things you can do/learn in a new country - where I am I've been able to go skiing every weekend in the winter, drive to France/Italy/Germany on weekend trips, learn the local language, challenge myself to meet new people.

@Dontbotherwithvalldemossa - did you really think this was the sort of advice for which OP posted? 🤷🏼‍♀️

If the Romanian builder came over with a company (not looking for local work) on a fixed term basis, often with accommodation (either allowance or provided) then they are an expat.

If they are over here on their own steam looking for work, then they are an immigrant.

There are lots of expats in the UK, from all over the world. The word has a specific meaning, it doesn’t mean white British person abroad.

So, the people who have moved to Spain, they are immigrants.

The retirees are immigrants and I’m less sure on the builder, it really depends on his circumstances but if transferred by a major contractor then sure he’d be an expat. It’s less about intentions and more about what your immigration status (visa) allows you to do. If for example, you can only work in the job you were transferred with, cannot stay beyond a fixed period of time, have limited access to local services like schooling or healthcare, different taxation rules etc. then that’s an expat- it’s temporary, tied to your employment and you don’t have the same rights as those who live their permanently.

When I lived in the US, on a non-immigrant visa, there were 3 of us on our team at work on this visa type; 1 British, 1 Irish and 1 Mexican and not that it came up often in conversation but we all classed ourselves as expats. Out of interest, and given that the US government has made it very clear that we were not immigrants, what would you suggest we call ourselves instead?

Expat is a racist term only applied to white people. Nobody calls the caribbean people I know expats even though they only intend to stay here a few years.

I look at British expat groups, but it seems very much about wives going for cocktails in the middle of the day (sorry if that seems unfair), and that's not me

If you think all Expat wives are like this then you are very wrong! I was a trailing spouse for two decades and originally thought I'd avoid expat groups. I quickly realised I was very wrong.

I made friends with locals but it was the other expats that had the time and inclination to socialise, do fun things and support each other. I was in 5 different countries and the experience was much the same in all of them. I'd actively seek out other expats
I loved it and made lifelong friends.
I have never been a 'ladies who lunch'es' type of person but lots of other people aren't either. I used to do lots of sports and I did some time consuming charity based work projects (with some other expats) I also studied.
I enjoyed the fact that I had a lot of fun time with the kids too. It was liberating and enjoyable.

I did have to put my career on the back burner and I understand that is not what a lot of people would want but the pros outweighed the cons so I did it happily.

Now we are back in the UK I can see a lot of my new UK friends have lifelong friendships with other people living locally and I think that must be lovely. I can see the advantages of staying in one area long term. I don't think it would have suited us though.

Also, now my four kids are adults we can really feel the benefit from having been able to put away so much money over the years. We didn't become expats for the money but it's a very significant benefit.

I worked for the UN for 15 years all around the world. We were ALL called expats. No matter where in the world we were from. It had nothing to do with colour or racism and everything to do with the fact you were on a contract with a work visa and were not planning on staying permanently.

In reality, you've given up almost everything to follow your husband's job around the world. What about your parents and other family? Where are they located? Don't neglect them as you might regret it as they get older. Do your DCs have cousins? And your friends in the UK.

I would be having a very honest conversation to say to DH that the decision needs to be balanced on what comes next, not just blindly following DHs career path, which could actually end in an instant (many things out of your control could happen).

Deep down, you sound like you want to be back in the UK. From what you've said, your DH (as a German native who speaks English fluently, used to working with Chinese suppliers) would have no problem finding work in the UK at a very senior level - many big German companies are located here. I think you need to prioritise your own needs now and those of your DCs , because they depend on a happy mum

Deep down, you sound like you want to be back in the UK. From what you've said, your DH (as a German native who speaks English fluently, used to working with Chinese suppliers) would have no problem finding work in the UK at a very senior level

My thoughts too. Having lived in the UK and in Germany, the Uk, especially London, is a much more open minded and culturally interesting place to live. Your husband speaks English very well, I assume?

Yes. My husband used to work in London and has a masters from Cambridge, so could work in London

Hi op, I’m also an expat living in North America. I had to make the same career sacrifices for my husbands career to progress.
at first we were only temporary so I was willing but now we are staying permanently. My role is just admin and not technical like my previous and I was ok with it. For my to progress now I can buy I’ll have to work more hours and I’m only part time at the moment so it’s my compromise.
it seems the career aspect is tough for you why can’t you work , visa ? Is there anything you can do to change this ?
Part of the enjoyment for me is that I have met with other people and we go for lunch wines etc I do enjoy it and that why I also value working part time. Maybe try it ? Sounds like you need something which is for you social/more challenging work.
I would say this life is very pros and cons like you my husband earns well and it’s allowed us to save and have life experiences we wouldn’t have had otherwise … but he has always said if I’m ever feeling like I can’t do this anymore we will go home.

Op, sounds like your husband can do well career wise in most countries - with a masters from Cambridge I'm sure he could do very well in the UK and you could both have an exciting career and raise a family.

Are you in the UK- do you mean Caribbean people who have come to the UK?

Are you saying that people who know that your Caribbean acquaintances are here for time-limited work nonetheless refer to them as "immigrants"?

I'd be very surprised if that were the case. In my experience most people only use the work "immigrant" to describe someone who has come to the UK with the intention of making a permanent new life here. Race doesn't come into it, except that perhaps people assume your Caribbean friends are here permanently because it's so common for people to make permanent moves from the Caribbean to the UK.

I have an Indian colleague. She came to the UK for work, I don't know her current intentions but I have no need to label her at all. Her husband is Indian so I think that they are probably a family of expats who will return to India eventually. On the other hand my Chinese colleague is an immigrant as she has married a British guy and intends to stay here permanently.

I would, however, observe that there is a race- or class-based distinction in places like Dubai, Singapore, between "expat" and "migrant worker", both of whom move countries for work and whose right to remain is linked to a specific job. The former being applied to Westerners in office jobs and the latter to Indians and Filipinos who work in construction and as domestic helpers.

I'm really sorry OP but you seem surprised by your sudden feelings. Surely you knew all of this, when you met Dh, when you chose to marry him, when you chose to travel. What did you expect to happen. This is all a given surely?

I think you are a bit dismissive of the ‘cocktails in the middle of the day’ gang because you have ‘technical skills’.

Do you know anything about them?

They might be other trailing spouses who can’t work in the country, and their skillset doesn’t allow them to work remotely. They might be taking a career break after a stressful career. They might be highly educated, but not working currently and great chat. They might be freelancers fitting in their bus take and pursuits around their cocktails.

this post is very ‘not like other girls’

if I was feeling lonely I would go and join them

Bus take?! I meant to type HUSTLE