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Living overseas

Whether you're considering emigrating or an expat abroad, you'll find likeminds on this forum.

Original poster

Dissatisfied by expat life

135 replies

Froginboilingwater · 20/04/2023 05:24

Our family lives in Asia as an expat, and I'm increasingly feeling that this isn't good in the long run. I wonder if I'm "wasting away" through lack of social contact, career opportunities and all the other things that add to a full life (hence my username).

To give a sense of our situation, I'll provide some background. DH, our two children, and I moved to Asia through his work. Prior to this, we spent five years living in Norway, also through DH's work. DH is German and I'm British, and he works for a big multi-national (albeit one headquartered in Germany). Materially we have a good life (free housing, good salary, schooling paid for, and we have built up a good financial buffer), but I feel like I may regret this in the long-run.

I knew when I got together with DH that this career was his dream, and to begin with, it was exciting. I met him in Germany, and I'm not averse to travel and seeing the world. There have been good things about being in Norway and now Asia, with some travel (which is now easier after Covid), so I don't want to knock it all.

I've been able to get remote work (I'm not allowed to work in the country) which also is quite interesting. I don't really have progression with it, but I can use to my technical skills to some extent. But I see former colleagues and friends getting promotions, and I can't help feel jealous.

DH can go into the office and meet with his German colleagues, will visit factories of suppliers around the country and has a demanding life. I on the other hand, work at home, and while I do things like go to the gym, or take my laptop to a cafe to do some work, I feel very isolated. Because of my remote work, I end up working late hours to have meetings after the children have gone to bed.

The other problem is that after our posting, the plan would be to go back to Germany, where I'd still be a foreigner. Living overseas, I don't get an opportunity to really practice German at any great level, and I don't feel I'm integrating or building a network in Germany. I feel at this rate, I'll always be an outsider, a ghost, whether I'm in Germany, or on another posting.

I look at British expat groups, but it seems very much about wives going for cocktails in the middle of the day (sorry if that seems unfair), and that's not me. I have technical skills.

I love my DH, I value his career, I realise it's important to him, but with all this, I also feel a little distant from his. We have two very different experiences of our expat life, and I don't know if I can do this for another 20-30 years.

Are there positive steps I can take to change my mindset, or is the problem simply too great? I wanted to post here because I think in AIBU/Chat, I'd get responses of "go home", but here, there are people who have lived the expat life, and like me, do see the benefits and drawbacks.

OP posts:
Florissante · 20/04/2023 06:54

Dontbotherwithvalldemossa · 20/04/2023 06:07

Why say ‘expat’, not ‘immigrant’?

Because the two are totally different.

StamppotAndGravy · 20/04/2023 06:56

How old are your kids? I've never done Germany, but I've heard it's not so easy/rather judged to work there while you're kids are small. Could you view these three years as a natural dent in your career that were likely to happen anywhere? Then at least you haven't wasted extra time. I've done the double expat thing too, but only in Europe. It's almost impossible to find motivation to keep up with one language, let alone two. Would fluent Mandarin give you enough of an advantage in Germany that it would be worth 3 months full time study and make up for rusty German?

ShandyQuaffer · 20/04/2023 06:58

Froginboilingwater · 20/04/2023 06:45

I suppose because at least for now, he's on a good career path that he's worked hard for, and it would be a big ask for him to give this up (I don't say he wouldn't, but it's a big ask)

But could he not get an equivalent job in the UK, if he speaks fluent English and has the right to work? At least it would be easier for him in the UK than it would for you in Germany.

It just sounds as if you’ve made all the sacrifices and he has made none. I think with career stuff, it can easily go like that- one partner starts by supporting the other and as a consequence that other’s career takes off, so it makes sense for them as a family to prioritise that…and you end up with one person with a great career and the other permanently supporting them without ever having consciously chosen that. Not saying there’s anything wrong with this set up, just that it’s better if you’ve chosen it rather than ended up there by default.

Hillrunning · 20/04/2023 07:01

While I feel for you and I understand the situation, 'I have technical skills' in relation to you not wanting cocktails did give me a big laugh.

You already know your choices. It's time to take some action. Join groups, hold back making any judgements until you know the people/activity better. A few years ago my mother was feeling isolated in another country. She forced herself to 4 activities a week after work for three months. She made fascinating, kind friends tried things she normally wouldn't have done and worked out which groups were for her.

Blaueblumen · 20/04/2023 07:05

DH speaks English fluently and he could work in the UK, but then he'd be a foreigner.

I feel your husband and his career are taking precedence over you and your family.

The UK is a culturally very open minded country, much more than say Germany, so he would have no problems imo.

Lefteyetwitch · 20/04/2023 07:06

Wouldn't your children speak German fluently? Just ask them all to change so that you speak German at home.

Blaueblumen · 20/04/2023 07:07

It just sounds as if you’ve made all the sacrifices and he has made none

Exactly this.

AIGenerated · 20/04/2023 07:17

In short, you are sacrificing your career (and your desire to live somewhere that you feel deeply connected to) for your husband's career.

This life may or may not be better for your dc (depends on them and the situation). But your dh must acknowledge that the overall benefit is entirely skewed his direction. Do you discuss this? What does he say?

Some spouses can thrive abroad, because their careers allow it. But living in a country where your only option is remote work - that's clearly a poor choice for you. I would find 3 more years of it unacceptable.

There was a plan. It is not working for you as a whole family. Because it's not working for you.

Start talking honestly to dh about it. About what you want and why. You need to centre your own career and your desire to have a more connected life.

Your family needs a new plan.

Blaueblumen · 20/04/2023 07:22

You speak English. Your husband speaks German and English. It makes sense therefore for you to live in an English speaking country. It would make your life so much easier - socially and to get a job you enjoy

Original poster
Froginboilingwater · 20/04/2023 07:22

Kids are two and four right now. We have a nanny and the eldest has started a pre-school. This right now is an advantage of living abroad.

Their language is of course still a little child-like, but I am slowly picking up some German.

It's a fair point about the balance of who has sacrificed what for the other.

OP posts:
biedrona · 20/04/2023 07:35

Dontbotherwithvalldemossa · 20/04/2023 06:07

Why say ‘expat’, not ‘immigrant’?

thanks for pointing out. It really riles me this term.

biedrona · 20/04/2023 07:37

Op is British, lives in Asia. How is that not immigration?

AIGenerated · 20/04/2023 07:42

biedrona · 20/04/2023 07:37

Op is British, lives in Asia. How is that not immigration?

Because she has not permanently moved to that country. They will be there on a temporary visa, with specific restrictions, and will be subject to different taxation than an immigrant. No right to vote or access public services, and no path to ever achieving those things.

Because the are not immigrants.

It is a completely different legal status.

Noicant · 20/04/2023 07:44

biedrona · 20/04/2023 07:37

Op is British, lives in Asia. How is that not immigration?

Immigration is when you settle in a country, OP will be leaving. Where I live everyone who is a non national is referred to as an expat, it’s not a term reserved for rich white people. Technically it means a posted worker.

Original poster
Froginboilingwater · 20/04/2023 07:46

Sorry @biedrona , I'm just using what is commonly understood to describe our situation. I'd say in Germany I'm an immigrant, but in Asia, I'm an ex-pat.

OP posts:
FlounderingFruitcake · 20/04/2023 07:50

In certain countries, the US for instance, when you move for work your visa category is non-immigrant. So it couldn’t be clearer that you are not an immigrant and that you’re an expat! They are very different things.

OP, sounds like you’ve done a lot of sacrificing whilst your DH has done none. Next move should take you into consideration too, and if I were you I would want an English speaking country (doesn’t have to be the UK).

TomeTome · 20/04/2023 07:51

@biedrona you could just look up the word “immigrant”? There’s nothing wrong with the term “expat” it describes someone from a different country who retains their home nationality and is in a second country usually on a fixed term contract/visa. There’s nothing intrinsically awful about that, or do you believe people should only work in their home country??

Unsure33 · 20/04/2023 07:53

biedrona · 20/04/2023 07:35

thanks for pointing out. It really riles me this term.

Show quote history

Don’t be riled then because she is not an immigrant in Asia.

ApricotExpat · 20/04/2023 07:54

I completely understand your situation. I’m not a fan of the expat cocktail / lunch scene - in any country. We’ve done a European country and two Asian countries and now settled in another country for the long term.

I think it’s REALLY hard. In the end, we decided that I was never going to be a trailing spouse at neither was he. Most importantly we didn’t want out children to think it was normal for one of us to be potentially seen as the inferior parent, so we moved to somewhere that we would both have equal opportunities.

It was fine when the kids were small and I’m glad we’ve had the life experience of living in different cultures.

So perhaps it’s worth getting a B2 / C1 Goethe qualification in the next three years so you would genuinely have an equal opportunity in Germany. If not, perhaps research countries where you could? If perhaps your French is better than your German, why not central Switzerland for instance?

Just a thought - wishing you all the best!

Hell121 · 20/04/2023 07:54

Agree you have made many sacrifices but sounds like you agreed to it but worth having the conversation with him. Agree with volunteering and also learning German. With young children there must be parent groups etc.

Also to the posters questioning expat and immigrant if you really can’t see understand the difference you are thick as mince.

GonnaBeYoniThisChristmas · 20/04/2023 07:55

OP - your children are still very small. The next three years is a perfect time to be taking the foot off the gas in terms of working and enjoy family.

And you have the advantage that that can include stuff purely for you given you have ample childcare.

If I were you I would stop working late evenings, find a way to keep your “technical skills” up to date (maybe study) and throw yourself into language studies, hobbies, travel and the kids.

Yes - there are issues coming down the track re whether you live in Germany / UK and your language skills but unless you’re planning to leave your husband or force him to quit the posting you need to find ways to enjoy life now.

And yes you have made career sacrifices for this lifestyle as your clearly know but that’s a decision made. I’d ensure you don’t look back on these years bitterly by making them work for you.

good luck.

undergroundstation · 20/04/2023 07:57

Could you teach (in an international school)?That would give you a grounding, and colleagues, and does seem to be a fairly common ‘trailing spouse’ job.
I don’t think you can get all that you want, sadly, so you need to work out what matters most and make sure you get as much of that as you can.

Dithyramb · 20/04/2023 08:04

Froginboilingwater · 20/04/2023 06:45

I suppose because at least for now, he's on a good career path that he's worked hard for, and it would be a big ask for him to give this up (I don't say he wouldn't, but it's a big ask)

And it’s not a big ask to condemn yourself to a lifetime of trailing around after someone else’s career, which seems to be assumed to be of more importance than yours? You were crazy to agree to this in the first place, obviously, but I can appreciate the full grimness of the trailing spouse predicament may not have been obvious at first. You need to have a serious conversation with your DH about your joint future. It may be that he needs to take a career break and you focus on your job in a country of your choice. How do you see your life?

FinallyHere · 20/04/2023 08:05

I agree that it's not easy to live in a gilded cage. However, I don't think that the answer would be to change everything and insist on moving back to the UK.

Throwing yourself into German life would make more sense to me. The overall quality of your family life is likely to be higher in Germany. Better pensions much less risk around healthcare are the immediate points

Use the time while your DC are small to build your language skills. Speak German with your DH and DC at home. Plan on going back to Germany as a family. There will be plenty of time for you to build pension in Germany.

In future, keep the family home in Germany and let DH travel

My own DH spent the last ten years of his working like 'commuting' two or three weeks at a time from UK to Los Angeles. Not ideal, not easy but better for us than the disruption of moving the whole family.

StillWantingADog · 20/04/2023 08:07

you’ve given up so much surely soon it will be time for your career and well-being to take priority.
if he works for a multinational then there should be options in the UK for him. It will be far easier for him in the Uk than it would be for you in Germany.

that all said one of my best friends is in Germany and surprised us all by settling in really well, and not at all with the expat crowd (in this case he was a male trailing spouse so slightly different). He’s found it very welcoming to foreigners.