Help. DH wants to move to his country and I don't :(

[EnglandvEurope]

I'm a regular poster and I've name changed for this.

I'm British and DH is from a European country. We met in his country, but I had to move back to the UK to finish my studies and he was happy to come with me. We had always talked about the possibility of moving to his country at some point in the distant future, but I was always clear that I wanted to be in my country for having children and the early years.

Fast forward many years and a lot has happened. We are married with 2 children (age 5 and 18 months).

DH always had a bit of a strained relationship with his family (parents and sibling) and unfortunately a few years ago they fell out completely and he/we are no longer in contact with them. It is very sad but DH feels there is no hope of reconciliation.

My family is not perfect but I get on with them all, I have separated parents and a step-parent, as well as 3 siblings in this country (1 lives abroad) and 2 of my siblings here have children of their own.

It is important for me to see my family regularly and for my children to have relationships with their cousins. All the more so since we are estranged from DH's family.

We try and visit DH's country regularly but obviously that's been much more difficult in the last couple of years due to covid and having 2 young children. We didn't visit in 2020 but did visit in 2021 and we are planning at least one trip again this year.

DH says that he is deeply unhappy in this country and wants to move back to his country. He said that Brexit was the final straw. I think his feelings coincide with the big fallout with his family. It is probably a combination of factors.

We are stuck because I don't want to move to his country, at least not now. The main reason is my family, I desperately want to stay near them. If we had a good relationship with his family, it might compensate somewhat for being away from mine, but we won't see them at all.

If we didn't have children I think we would split up, but both of us want to be with the children, and it's not as if DH would move to his country without them.

What to do?

PS I should add that I speak his language fluently so that shouldn't be an issue. Not sure about jobs!

Don’t go. If you have kids (especially if this country is part of The Hague convention) you will have fuck all chance of returning. You will have zero right to a happy life. Just don’t risk it. If your kids are enrolled in school even if they are not citizens, they are treated accordingly. (Experience)

Why is your DH unhappy here?

The reason for moving would have to be compelling and that's not clear.

Do not go!! My SIL has basically lost all her children as she split up with her DH and then couldn't stay in the country. The children wanted to stay. So she's back here with no house, no job and no children.

Your respective reasons for your preferences are equally valid.

It’s harsh on your H but you’d be unwise to move. Legally if you do move you might not be able to return with the DC. That’s the situation DH is now in.

It sounds as if he is hoping to recapture some fantasy of a happy life in his home country.

Would you both be able to work there? Does he have contacts and active friendships there?

I would try and visit his country, and look at ways to address what makes him unhappy here.

Obviously you can’t reverse Brexit but are there things you could do to mitigate the sense of hostility that a lot of Europeans felt and experienced?

I had a friend in this situation, she went as he was so unhappy, they then split as she was so unhappy and now cannot return with the children. She can only get a basic job in comparison to the career she had in England and wishes she hadn't moved.

I'm not sure the people scare mongering are talking about European countries. It would be wise to look into how it works with the children in your specific country.

1. If it were me I would go for a couple of years, for your dh sake so he can see the reality and hopefully fully commit to coming back. He's always been upfront about wanting to go home, it's very unfair to deny him this for a few years and I would be very resentful if I were him.

1. This is the ideal time. As kids get older, it gets harder from education and relationship point of view. Agree to set a time limit eg. 2 years and don't sell the house in UK. Your children are young. They won't be able to say, "We want to stay abroad" at 8 and 3 years old.

1. It's an amazing experience for children to live abroad for a while and to have close connections to another country, especially if it's half their heritage. Whilst you may not patch things up with family, you may make friends for life who you can maintain connections with, and the children will always have that memory through photos, videos etc.

I’m afraid I would refuse to move. How my husband chose to deal with that would be for him to decide.

@EnglandvEurope - before you make any decisions, read the information on the ‘Reunite International’ website.

It is a UK charity (which has an advice/helpline) and deals with the issues relating to relationship breakdowns with parents moving across international borders and the legal issues regarding the children.

www.reunite.org

Basically, it does seem that once you have relocated overseas, it is very difficult to move your children back again. When I lived in the USA there were cases of parents splitting up and the courts there refusing the children to even relocate to a neighbouring State, let alone back to the UK.

Post

Thank you all for your replies. Lots of food for thought.

DH's country is signed up to the Hague convention. I am aware that if we live there, I won't be able to move back with the children without his agreement. (The same situation he is in now.) It's awful really but selfishly I want to stay here and not put myself in that position.

I have dual citizenship now so I could always live in DH's country even if we split up (having to move back to the UK and leave the children behind doesn't even bear thinking about, @Rainbowshit - your poor SIL ).

DH struggles to articulate exactly why he's unhappy here and wants to move, but it's just a strong preference for his home country, his friends there (he does have good friends who we have kept in touch with and see when we go). He also thinks the healthcare system is better there... we could probably get into a big debate about the pros and cons of health, education etc in each country. My preference is for my country because I feel there is more tolerance of difference here whereas his is a bit more conformist IMO... however these are just perceptions that each of us have, based on our own deep-rooted preferences from growing up in different countries and cultures.

One worry I have is for my own mental health; I've had periods of depression in the past and he's not great with it sadly. I'd say that I do the "emotional labour" in our family and support everyone else; I get emotional support from my family and a couple of close girlfriends (more than from DH). Plus therapy if i feel I need it. I worry about feeling very alone and trapped if I become depressed in his country. Perhaps he feels that way here - he certainly doesn't reach out to others in the way I do, but he does have my support.

It's such a difficult situation and I am wondering if I made the wrong life choices tbh, perhaps I was naive in thinking we could make it work

@CarmenThePanda
"It sounds as if he is hoping to recapture some fantasy of a happy life in his home country."
I think you're right, and I think he could still be unhappy if we moved.
"Would you both be able to work there?"
Yes but I think our options might be more limited... DH might not earn as much and I'd probably need to change jobs, which could work out better or worse than my current job (interesting but badly paid).
"Does he have contacts and active friendships there?"
Yes
"are there things you could do to mitigate the sense of hostility that a lot of Europeans felt and experienced?"
I see your point but I don't know what things? My own family is fully accepting and supportive of DH, we have mutual friends here (including friends from DH's country). He has settled status and could apply for British citizenship - he'd probably have to if we decided to move abroad, to protect his right to move back to the UK if he/we wanted to in future.

@MerryMarigold
Thank you for another perspective, you make some good points. I'm afraid they still don't persuade me, not least because I think it will be a lot of upheaval for my children to move for a couple of years and then come back. My oldest really struggles with transitions (I don't want to be accused of drip feeding but I suspect ASD). I do see your point though that it's easier now that it would be in future.

I've been thinking about it and I am wondering if we could buy a property in DH's country and spend all the school holidays there. (Then Airbnb it the rest of the time.) It's not completely what DH wants but we would at least get decent chunks of time in his country. We would have to negotiate WFH during the school holidays and get some kind of childcare while we're there, but neither of those are insurmountable. We'll need to see if we can afford it and would probably have to make some sacrifices in terms of our home in the UK. We live in an expensive city (which we love) and we were planning renovations to get more space, but I think we'd have to abandon those plans and maybe relocate somewhere cheaper.

@MerryMarigold

I'm not sure the people scare mongering are talking about European countries. It would be wise to look into how it works with the children in your specific country.

1. If it were me I would go for a couple of years, for your dh sake so he can see the reality and hopefully fully commit to coming back. He's always been upfront about wanting to go home, it's very unfair to deny him this for a few years and I would be very resentful if I were him.

1. This is the ideal time. As kids get older, it gets harder from education and relationship point of view. Agree to set a time limit eg. 2 years and don't sell the house in UK. Your children are young. They won't be able to say, "We want to stay abroad" at 8 and 3 years old.

1. It's an amazing experience for children to live abroad for a while and to have close connections to another country, especially if it's half their heritage. Whilst you may not patch things up with family, you may make friends for life who you can maintain connections with, and the children will always have that memory through photos, videos etc.

^^ this is a very sensible answer.

I think it's only fair to try it for a couple of years at least. He has already done the same for you and I think you need to afford him the same opportunity. If he is deeply unhappy in the UK then something has to change anyway. And after a while of adapting, it's not a given that you will be deeply unhappy in his country. You might like it! You need to try it at least first!

I know that leaving your family is a big wrench but a lot of extended family in the UK only see one another in the school holidays, owing to the distances they live apart. And once your dc and their cousins get older and start school and extra-curricular activities and make their own friends, unless you live very close by, the DC won't be spending as much time together anyway

It depends on the country of course but if you speak the language, most major European
countries are fine to live in and you can make it work. Surely home, to a degree, is what you make it?

The point about timing is a very good one too. If you are going, then your dc are the perfect age now.

As well as the negatives, you need to think about the positives too!

Formal education in many EU countries starts at six years. And children under eight use a different part of the brain to acquire language. The younger the better is always the rule in terms of language acquisition. Being bi- or tri- lingual is great gift to give your dc as it helps with development of neural pathways and strategic thinking.

Good health care is not to be sniffed at.

It's often easier to make friends as an expat then it is back home.

You don't mention work in your post? Would you be able to work in your dh's country?

Childcare provision is often better in EU countries and housing can be cheaper too.

Good luck op. It may not be as bad as you think

Apologies I see you have mentioned work in your follow up post.

@Herejustforthisone

I’m afraid I would refuse to move. How my husband chose to deal with that would be for him to decide.

Just out of interest, why would your wishes trump his? Not being snippy, as an expat, just genuinely interested in how you justify that in your own mind? Aren't you a family unit with a commitment to one another?

And fwiw, unless I am missing something here, there are thousands of couples living in the EU who manage to compromise and make it work. Lots of divorced couples in UK and EU who manage to make post-divorce arrangements work for them too for that matter.

You don't move, obviously. It would be a huge mistake.

Do you live in London OP? If I were from Europe I would feel (rightly or wrongly) a lot more alone if I didn't live in the capital, where I could easily find others from my own country, where I knew the vast majority were anti-Brexit, and where I wouldn't stand out in the slightest because it's such a melting pot.

If not, is it something you could offer him? I agree, you mustn't move under any circs until the kids are much older.

I think the decision making has to be based on far more specific reasons than his slightly wishy-washy desire to be at home. Because if you did move, there are very specific things you would all need to manage.

So, for example, if he feels there are better job opportunities for him, better career, better lifestyle, better education etc and can prove that, then you have to at least consider it, taking into account your equally valid reasons for remaining where you are.

But if it's a general, "well, I think I'd be happier" don't do it. Because in my experience, people who make statements of that sort will ALWAYS be unhappy because what they're looking for is nebulous and unclear, probably doesn't exist and even if it does, they have no idea what it is or how to achieve it.

I have lived in his country (for a year, when we met) so I know what it was like then, although our lives were very different - no kids, lots of going out with friends. It wouldn't be the same if we lived there now.

Our kids are hard work and I appreciate the occasional help we get from my family.

Also, just realised, what jumps out at me from your posts is that YOU do all the emotional and practical labour. So really, a move is just so that he can spend more time with his friends? But I'm assuming you're not going to be getting more help from him doing all those day to day things that are tedious and time consuming.... and you'll be doing them in another country? (school planning, homework, playdates, extra curricular, insurance, housing, banking etc etc etc).

So difficult.

From what you have said I would most definitely stay in the UK and as you said, try to spend more time visiting your dh's country.

However, it does seem your dh spending time trying to get to the bottom of why he wants to move back. ie if it is to spend time with those of the same nationality he could join some club or something here which is for those of that nationality.

I don't blame him as a lot of people want to live in their own country but as you said, you have kids and so it's not that simple.

Having lived abroad it actually makes me feel a bit ill think of moving abroad again. I can completely understand why you want to stay.

And I would definitely not go for two years. A huge amount of stress and upset and change. and worry about coming back too.

@WinterDeWinter

Do you live in London OP? If I were from Europe I would feel (rightly or wrongly) a lot more alone if I didn't live in the capital, where I could easily find others from my own country, where I knew the vast majority were anti-Brexit, and where I wouldn't stand out in the slightest because it's such a melting pot.

If not, is it something you could offer him? I agree, you mustn't move under any circs until the kids are much older.

Not London but a city quite similar in terms of house prices, vast majority of remain voters, reasonably multinational population (lots of Europeans). DH has always been happy in this city (as opposed to elsewhere in the UK) and wouldn't want to move to London.

@Triffid1

Also, just realised, what jumps out at me from your posts is that YOU do all the emotional and practical labour. So really, a move is just so that he can spend more time with his friends? But I'm assuming you're not going to be getting more help from him doing all those day to day things that are tedious and time consuming.... and you'll be doing them in another country? (school planning, homework, playdates, extra curricular, insurance, housing, banking etc etc etc).

Yes, I do the "wife work", emotional labour, organising, parenting admin. He does his share of housework and parenting but I find that I have the mental load. Like most straight couples, I guess.

"And children under eight use a different part of the brain to acquire language. The younger the better is always the rule in terms of language acquisition. Being bi- or tri- lingual is great gift to give your dc as it helps with development of neural pathways and strategic thinking."

Obviously we are raising our children to be bilingual and will continue to do so whichever country we live in. Here in the UK, we will supplement their education with classes or a tutor in DH's language. If we moved to his country, we'd send them to bilingual schools.

I think the family thing is very important here. With such young kids family support is vitally important. He's estranged from his family. So basically he wants to prioritise his friends over your and your kids relationship with your family. It's be a no from me. He's being selfish here.