Help. DH wants to move to his country and I don't :(

[EnglandvEurope]

I'm a regular poster and I've name changed for this.

I'm British and DH is from a European country. We met in his country, but I had to move back to the UK to finish my studies and he was happy to come with me. We had always talked about the possibility of moving to his country at some point in the distant future, but I was always clear that I wanted to be in my country for having children and the early years.

Fast forward many years and a lot has happened. We are married with 2 children (age 5 and 18 months).

DH always had a bit of a strained relationship with his family (parents and sibling) and unfortunately a few years ago they fell out completely and he/we are no longer in contact with them. It is very sad but DH feels there is no hope of reconciliation.

My family is not perfect but I get on with them all, I have separated parents and a step-parent, as well as 3 siblings in this country (1 lives abroad) and 2 of my siblings here have children of their own.

It is important for me to see my family regularly and for my children to have relationships with their cousins. All the more so since we are estranged from DH's family.

We try and visit DH's country regularly but obviously that's been much more difficult in the last couple of years due to covid and having 2 young children. We didn't visit in 2020 but did visit in 2021 and we are planning at least one trip again this year.

DH says that he is deeply unhappy in this country and wants to move back to his country. He said that Brexit was the final straw. I think his feelings coincide with the big fallout with his family. It is probably a combination of factors.

We are stuck because I don't want to move to his country, at least not now. The main reason is my family, I desperately want to stay near them. If we had a good relationship with his family, it might compensate somewhat for being away from mine, but we won't see them at all.

If we didn't have children I think we would split up, but both of us want to be with the children, and it's not as if DH would move to his country without them.

What to do?

@Rainbowshit

I think the family thing is very important here. With such young kids family support is vitally important. He's estranged from his family. So basically he wants to prioritise his friends over your and your kids relationship with your family. It's be a no from me. He's being selfish here.

Thank you. That's how I feel tbh.

Those people saying that OP should move there for a couple of years are maybe missing the implications for the DC. Once they are settled in another EU country (in school) it becomes their usual place of residence and she will have no right to bring them back to UK if her DP does not agree. So she could find it becomes a permanent move whether she likes it or not.

Even countries which are Hague Convention signatories usually take the view that it is in a child’s best interest to remain in their usual place of residence. This is especially so with dual national children. Germany for example has a long record of refusing to return children with German citizenship even when they have been illegally abducted by the non custodial parent against the orders of a UK court.

OP could you spend more time there during school holidays? We’re a dual national family living in the U.K.

Our kids go to a bilingual school here. We visit DHs country frequently and sometimes do extended trips. We went for six weeks in the summer during my second Mat leave.

If I were you I’d do two things:

1 ask your DH to go to some therapy to help him explore his feelings (maybe do this together). It does sound like he’s externalising his unhappiness. It’s totally possible he’ll move and still be unhappy.

1. Offer to spend a lot more time there. Some families in the DC school go back for every school holiday, which works out to be about 1/3 of the year. With flexible working that sort of thing is much more doable. You’ll want to see your family too. But you could suggest ab extended stay this summer and see how it goes? I’d rent a place on Airbnb and stay there to make it more like a move. Rent your place out too to fund it? (I’d expect DH to put effort into organising all this)

Do not go unless you're genuinely happy to live there forever.

I think your plan of potentially spending all school holidays there is a good one if you can make it work. What's that, something like 13 weeks of the year?

I’m afraid I just wouldn’t risk the possibility that my children end up in a country and I wouldn’t be able to leave with them if things went wrong.

As a child who lived this, please don't do it.

My father is French, my mother Australian...they met in the UK. Had to get married after less than a year together as my Catholic mother got pregnant with my older brother..this was in the late 60s.

They moved back to Australia when my mother was pregnant with me..mainly for economic reasons, my father could earn far more in Australia than the UK, and my mother wanted the support of her very large family. My father had a poor relationship with his parents and brother, and a non-existent one with his extended family.

When my older brother turned 10 (I was 9) they had the same sort of situation as you do now...my father wanted to move back to the UK, my mother didn't. As a compromise, my father took a job working in what was then called a third world country...and we went with him.

Very long story short, it was an utter disaster, and the beginning of the end of our family. We ended up constantly moving around the world, including going back and forward between the UK and Australia, until I was nearly 15. The amount of stress and upset myself and my two brothers were subjected to was unbelievable...and our education suffered as well.

It may sound harsh but if your husband is adamant that he does not want to remain in the UK, then you need to split. I agree with @Rainbowshit - my father managed to estrange my mother from her family, and I'm sure he only did it because he was jealous of her close relationship with them.

@Triffid1

I think the decision making has to be based on far more specific reasons than his slightly wishy-washy desire to be at home. Because if you did move, there are very specific things you would all need to manage.

So, for example, if he feels there are better job opportunities for him, better career, better lifestyle, better education etc and can prove that, then you have to at least consider it, taking into account your equally valid reasons for remaining where you are.

But if it's a general, "well, I think I'd be happier" don't do it. Because in my experience, people who make statements of that sort will ALWAYS be unhappy because what they're looking for is nebulous and unclear, probably doesn't exist and even if it does, they have no idea what it is or how to achieve it.

I forgot to reply to this earlier but it's spot on.

DH tends to complain about things without trying to find solutions. I'm the problem-solver. It's all very hard work.

DH tends to complain about things without trying to find solutions. I'm the problem-solver. It's all very hard work.

Unfortunately, I know many people, mostly men, like this in my extended family which is why I asked the original question.

And it NEVER works out - because they make decisions based on some vague idea that things will be better that way, but they haven't made any specific plans to ensure that it is. And as a result, they're disappointed.

@Catsstillrock

OP could you spend more time there during school holidays? We’re a dual national family living in the U.K.

Our kids go to a bilingual school here. We visit DHs country frequently and sometimes do extended trips. We went for six weeks in the summer during my second Mat leave.

If I were you I’d do two things:

1 ask your DH to go to some therapy to help him explore his feelings (maybe do this together). It does sound like he’s externalising his unhappiness. It’s totally possible he’ll move and still be unhappy.

1. Offer to spend a lot more time there. Some families in the DC school go back for every school holiday, which works out to be about 1/3 of the year. With flexible working that sort of thing is much more doable. You’ll want to see your family too. But you could suggest ab extended stay this summer and see how it goes? I’d rent a place on Airbnb and stay there to make it more like a move. Rent your place out too to fund it? (I’d expect DH to put effort into organising all this)

Thank you, yes I agree with this plan. Ha, yes DH should put effort into organising an extended visit shouldn't he... My main worry is childcare as I don't think DC1 would happily skip off to holiday clubs and DC2 is too young for them. I think I need to ask DH to research it. My preference would be a nanny there but we'll have to see what that would cost! Currently DC2 has a year-round place at nursery but we can easily change that to term time only.

@Okeydoky
Yes I think school holidays are 13 weeks in total which is 25% of the year, not bad really.
Having said that I'd want to spend Christmas at home in the UK with my family. So perhaps we'd split the Christmas holidays and only go to Europe before/after Christmas.

@noirchatsdeux
I'm very sorry about your experience, it sounds very unfair on you and your brothers I definitely do not want to do that to my children.
I do wonder if DH is a bit jealous of me having relationships with my family and spending time with them; it's almost as if he can't have it so he doesn't want me to have it either... I'm sure he would never admit to this feeling and he wouldn't be proud of it as such, but we can't help how we feel can we?

I’m not clear why some posters are saying ‘it’s only fair’ for OP to move to her DH’s country when she said they had an agreement to raise any DC in the UK. His feelings are valid and if OP was happy to give the move a go then there’s no issue, but why is she unfair when it’s him that’s changed the goalposts?

OP and her H’s feelings and views are equally valid.

It comes down to the legal position IMO. Should they relocate and then split up OP wouldn’t be able to return to the UK with the DC if her ex disagreed. Most people wouldn’t take that risk.

@redpeppersoup

I’m not clear why some posters are saying ‘it’s only fair’ for OP to move to her DH’s country when she said they had an agreement to raise any DC in the UK. His feelings are valid and if OP was happy to give the move a go then there’s no issue, but why is she unfair when it’s him that’s changed the goalposts?

To clarify, I said I wanted to give birth and spend their early years here in the UK, and said I would consider moving to DH's country when they were older.

However, since having children and becoming estranged from DH's family, I find myself feeling more strongly about staying here in the UK for longer.

So if anything, I'm the one who has changed the goal posts. I do think we are all entitled to change our minds. But I also feel for DH.

I agree he should get therapy to help order his feelings and try and establish what the actual problem is. TBH when you are older and have kids and the restrictions that brings you don’t have the freedom of your youth with school runs and office politics and worrying about rising energy prices. So it is far from unusual to think “is this it, is this my life now? I used to have freedom” - the subconscious starts to grapple with how to get back and grabs onto a time/location when you were freer.

He should also apply for British citizenship. This is a “no regrets” move and would give you the most straightforward route back as a family of you moved and it didn’t work out. A friend’s husband had ILR and couldn’t be bothered to get a British passport but they’ve had to move back to his home country in Europe for a few years - returning to the U.K. will now be more difficult for them.

I don't think you should move but in your husbands defence the agreement to live here when children were young was pre brexit. It's very different now with the choice essentially being between live in the EU or not which it wasn't before.

@helpfulperson

I don't think you should move but in your husbands defence the agreement to live here when children were young was pre brexit. It's very different now with the choice essentially being between live in the EU or not which it wasn't before.

I agree. Brexit is so shit in every way. I got pregnant with DC1 just before the referendum

@EnglandvEurope sounds like you both have a bit, but if he was happy to remain here until your DC are older then your wish to remain in the UK long term wouldn’t become an issue for potentially another few years. He’s being unreasonable to go back on what you agreed and try to move while they’re still so young, but as you say he can’t help how he feels. It’s unfortunate but I agree with @Loopytiles and others that the risk of being stuck over there and not able to move back with DC would be too great for most.

To be fair I do feel sympathy with your husband because it was good of him to uproot and come to the UK with you. And he must have thought it would only be for the short term future. So really hr6s being left high and dry.

BUT. You've said that you're really only staying together because of the children. And that would be the deciding factor for me. If the thought of splitting is already an accepted possibility, it's so easy to let it slip to a probability and then a reality. And then you're in a country with no ties, no family, only having your children 50% of the time, and his friends are going stay friends with him rather than you. I accept that your DH finds himself in that situation now, but ultimately do you want to be self-sacrificing or do you want to be happy?

Both yours and his positions are clearly equally valid, so someone has to compromise. I don’t have children, but I know how much I and my parents/other siblings support our nieces and nephews, so I really feel you must keep that support around you.

Your DH moved here and started a family here I’m the UK, so to an extent he must have known the implications of that.

That said, I’ve also worked abroad for an extended period and I remember how horrible the home sickness got, and I was only on an 18 month contract (albeit far further afield so no option to pop home). It was like having depression being so far from silly things that are familiar.

How far is the journey to his home country? I think perhaps the only compromise is to commit to a lifestyle that involves a schedule of feasible visits that your household budget allows with an extended summer holiday period there. Something to reassure him he will get plenty of regular time around his friends (which, whilst less important than kids, are certainly also important). Could that work to break the stalemate?

"You've said that you're really only staying together because of the children."

That's not exactly what I said. I meant that if we didn't have children, there would be a relatively easy solution to the problem of wanting to live in different countries - just go our separate ways, painful though that would be.

Our relationship has suffered a bit over the last few years (mainly because of the kids but also the fallout with his family and a couple of other factors) but we've worked at it and want to be together... the problem is that disagreeing about where to live is obviously a continuing issue so we really need to find some way of "resolving" it (not that it's completely resolvable!) if we can.

@JenniferPlantain
It's not far. Pre-kids and pre-covid, we did a lot of trips (sometimes together sometimes just DH) and I think we can and should prioritise it again from now on. Thank you.

"I've been thinking about it and I am wondering if we could buy a property in DH's country and spend all the school holidays there. (Then Airbnb it the rest of the time.) It's not completely what DH wants but we would at least get decent chunks of time in his country. We would have to negotiate WFH during the school holidays and get some kind of childcare while we're there, but neither of those are insurmountable. We'll need to see if we can afford it and would probably have to make some sacrifices in terms of our home in the UK. We live in an expensive city (which we love) and we were planning renovations to get more space, but I think we'd have to abandon those plans and maybe relocate somewhere cheaper."

This seems like an excellent compromise.

Before you make any decisions to permanently move, I would get legal advice and an legal agreement drawn up that if you were to split/want to move back, he would allow it.

That sounds sensible yes. Not sure if an agreement would be enforceable but it would certainly be worth getting legal advice.

The thing is, I have no intention of moving there in the foreseeable future, I didn't want to anyway and this thread has confirmed it for me.

Place there could be a good idea OP. Suggest you TRY IT first though, before getting into a big stressful project of buying and managing a place remotely.

I’d pitch the idea to my DH and then sit back and wait for him to act (and I’d be firm it’s trial for a month / 6 weeks this summer first). And he need to come up with A childcare plan etc etc.

Also, is he in touch with ex pats from
Home here on the U.K.? There’s sizeable U.K. populations of most European countries.

We’re in London and there’s German, Spanish and French schools here (might be others, these are just the ones I know of). Ours go to one and it attracts an expat community around the school. So DH knows and sees plenty of people from the same place as him.