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Help. DH wants to move to his country and I don't :(

142 replies

EnglandvEurope · 13/04/2022 09:41

I'm a regular poster and I've name changed for this.

I'm British and DH is from a European country. We met in his country, but I had to move back to the UK to finish my studies and he was happy to come with me. We had always talked about the possibility of moving to his country at some point in the distant future, but I was always clear that I wanted to be in my country for having children and the early years.

Fast forward many years and a lot has happened. We are married with 2 children (age 5 and 18 months).

DH always had a bit of a strained relationship with his family (parents and sibling) and unfortunately a few years ago they fell out completely and he/we are no longer in contact with them. It is very sad but DH feels there is no hope of reconciliation.

My family is not perfect but I get on with them all, I have separated parents and a step-parent, as well as 3 siblings in this country (1 lives abroad) and 2 of my siblings here have children of their own.

It is important for me to see my family regularly and for my children to have relationships with their cousins. All the more so since we are estranged from DH's family.

We try and visit DH's country regularly but obviously that's been much more difficult in the last couple of years due to covid and having 2 young children. We didn't visit in 2020 but did visit in 2021 and we are planning at least one trip again this year.

DH says that he is deeply unhappy in this country and wants to move back to his country. He said that Brexit was the final straw. I think his feelings coincide with the big fallout with his family. It is probably a combination of factors.

We are stuck because I don't want to move to his country, at least not now. The main reason is my family, I desperately want to stay near them. If we had a good relationship with his family, it might compensate somewhat for being away from mine, but we won't see them at all.

If we didn't have children I think we would split up, but both of us want to be with the children, and it's not as if DH would move to his country without them.

What to do? Sad

OP posts:
MarriedThreeChildren · 15/04/2022 08:19

Sorry @EnglandvEurope
I seem to be Xpost and taking too long to answer. My answer was more about all the people saying that you should leave him to it with the idea that he would never get organised anyway. Aka setting him up to fail. Sorry this wasn’t clear. Reading your last post (to me) says clearly this is not your attitude.

Re him wanting to be in the U.K…

I wanted to be in the U.K. too. I mean I choose to come here because that’s where dh was!
It doesn’t mean it wasn’t a huge upheaval for me, that I didn’t need to make a huge effort, that I didn’t struggle to fit in etc etc…
How long did you live in his country? Did you find it easy? Did you go as a young adult/student or as an adult with a job etc…
All of this makes a difference on how easy or hard it is to move Tbh.

MarriedThreeChildren · 15/04/2022 08:20

@EnglandvEurope had that makes sense re the citizenship!

I wish my dh had the same attitude tbh….

EnglandvEurope · 15/04/2022 08:26

@powershowerforanhour
Sorry I forgot to reply. We don't live in Edinburgh (although we do like the city!) We are much further south. England.

OP posts:
Ivyonafence · 15/04/2022 08:29

'Another big worry of mine is that in DH's country, grandparents have the legal right to contact with grandchildren, so if PILs knew we'd moved there, they could take us to court for access'

This happened to me. My DH is estranged from his family- for good reasons- and they took us to court to try and assume parenting rights over our children.

It was thrown out of court at the first court date- however it took a year of the worst stress I have ever known, it was incredibly ugly, and even though the court ordered them to pay our legal costs at the end it left us tens of thousands out of pocket. Money we had saved for private school fees down the drain.

If you're talking about France then I believe the burden is reversed and GP have an automatic right that you would have to counter. That makes it even more expensive for you and more likely that PIL will win access. Then they'll have a parenting order over your children and that might prohibit you moving back to the UK even if DH wants to.

For this alone- do not move there.

If DH was raised by damaged people (sounds like he was if you are estranged from them) then like my DH he probably has to learn some emotional skills in adulthood that most people learned in childhood.

My DH found counseling really beneficial to work through his childhood and fill in the gaps emotionally. It made our marriage much stronger.

If PIL are so toxic you've had to cut them off then be glad there is an ocean between you.

PoodlePerm · 15/04/2022 08:42

It sounds like he needs to grieve for the loss of his family. It seems like this move could be him desperately trying to cling to what is left - familiar friends and the physical aspects of his home country, things that are familiar and nostalgic to him. Things that were there when he was in a better place with his family. What he probably needs to do is realise that perhaps his feelings aren't something that can be fixed, but to be accepted and worked through. Definitely agree counselling could be the biggest benefit to him. It does sound like he's possibly stuck in the grieving process and trying to 'fix' his feelings rather than accept the situation as it is.

EnglandvEurope · 15/04/2022 08:44

@Ivyonafence
I am so sorry you had to go through that - I can only imagine how stressful it must have been.
You are right in that DH was raised by damaged/dysfunctional people and he has had to play "catch up" in terms of emotional skills, he's made some progress but is by no means "fixed" and I doubt he ever will be. He's had counselling before but I think he needs more.

OP posts:
Krakenchorus · 15/04/2022 08:53

This is what it is to marry someone from another country (I empathise). Some posters are trying to make out your dh's reasons as not good enough, or his motivations selfish. His desire to live in his own country is not selfish and it's no better or worse for his dc than the UK.

Home is always going yo be home, and a person can go through periods of missing it more or missing it less. And it doesn't hit you all at once, but in pieces as the consequences of choices pile up. Right now, he is trapped and maybe feeling resentful, and as it's easy to imagine you being in that position yourself, you no doubt understand.

I think you should stay in the UK. Because you strongly prefer to be in the UK. Someone has to lose in this equation, so don't agree to move if you do not want to.

If financially possible, the idea of buying a place in his country is a good one. It's a commitment. It also means that your children will have a home there. Because they may grow up to prefer the Uk or his country. Or a third option.

Be as supportive as possible, but also be clear about your intention to remain permanently in the UK.

Whatalovelydaffodil · 15/04/2022 08:59

@helpfulperson

I don't think you should move but in your husbands defence the agreement to live here when children were young was pre brexit. It's very different now with the choice essentially being between live in the EU or not which it wasn't before.
How would that make it any different to the OPs family though?
Frazzled2207 · 15/04/2022 09:00

Generally speaking it would be a very valid argument for your dh to want to return home- or at least live there for a few years- and your kids at at the best possible age for this.

However as he is estranged from his family and you rely on yours for support it doesn’t make much sense at the current time.

I get that he wants to see his friends but as pp said when you have younger children socialising just doesn’t happen nearly as much. Also, especially when you are a mum, family support just with the emotional baggage not just the physically looking after the children bit, is invaluable. You would have none of that in his country. It sounds to some extent that he is just nostalgic about his bachelor days with his pals and needs to grow up a bit.

I would compromise on letting him go there to see his friends quite often now the pandemic is easing and also going for an extended period in the summer. Buying a second property is a fab idea if you could afford it. While you’re there you could think more seriously about the practicalities of actually living there but he needs to actually engage with specifically what would make it difficult for you.

I do feel for you though I have friends with similar dilemmas and it’s very very hard to agree on what’s best in these situations.

JulesRimetStillGleaming · 15/04/2022 09:10

You probably won't be able to work remotely if you move abroad for tax reasons. We had an Italian colleague who went back to Italy at the start of the pandemic and was initially working from home but he wasn't allowed to continue so had to leave. Not sure if that applies everywhere or just public sector.

I wouldn't go as I don't think he'd ever agree to coming back and family support and closeness for the kids is crucial.

Can you work on improving his life here? We really are not all Brexit loving, European hating people here. Are there ex pat communities from his country he can join? Even if just on Facebook initially. If he could make friends from his home country here in the UK that might help him feel more settled.

JulesRimetStillGleaming · 15/04/2022 09:12

In fact I have a lot of sympathy for him. This latest Rwanda announcement makes me want to leave the UK and I was born here!

Ivyonafence · 15/04/2022 09:19

[quote EnglandvEurope]@Ivyonafence
I am so sorry you had to go through that - I can only imagine how stressful it must have been.
You are right in that DH was raised by damaged/dysfunctional people and he has had to play "catch up" in terms of emotional skills, he's made some progress but is by no means "fixed" and I doubt he ever will be. He's had counselling before but I think he needs more.[/quote]
Thank you, it was rough. our DH's sound very similar. It leaves you watching out for everyone while DH is going through whatever he needs to go through. It's hard to always be the one keeping the ship afloat while your partner/family is in a storm. It's a lonely role and it puts strain on a marriage.

You sound like you're handling it marvellously and looking out for your children and health. That's the right thing to do. I hope DH appreciates what you're carrying.

Clymene · 15/04/2022 09:38

And I completely agree with the poster who said that his feeling of he'd be happier there is far too vague to hang your whole family's future on.

Buy the holiday house.

EnglandvEurope · 15/04/2022 10:09

Thanks all. Especially @Ivyonafence for your kind words. You completely get it!

OP posts:
FinallyHere · 15/04/2022 12:24

Our kids are hard work and I appreciate the occasional help we get from my family.

On top of which, you write that you do the heavy lifting in terms of emotional support, too. What is he suggesting would replace these really key aspects of your life if you moved, even for a few years?

Usually, I'm a big fan of the experience of time 'abroad' especially for children, living in another culture. Seeing the principal of 'doing things differently' operating in real life is I think one of the most useful experience children can have. My parents, well father, spent many years working abroad, with his wife and two children in tow.

However, the experience is as nothing compared to being part of a wider, loving family and having people around who can support the one person providing emotion support to your whole family.

If he wants his proposal to even be considered, the onus is surely on him to propose really well thought out, practical plans for the success of this venture. It's really not enough for him to claim that he would be 'happier' elsewhere without demonstrating his understanding of the sacrifice he would be asking.

It speaks volumes that he isn't already taking these aspects into consideration. Is he thoughtless and perhaps, yes, even selfish in other ways?

In your shoes, I would encourage him to do some analysis on what would be different for him and for each of you. What each of you would gain and equally important, each, giving up.

In the absence of something like the opportunity to earn really life changing amounts of money, by the sacrifice of your networks of friends and family, I can't see how the benefits could outweigh the costs, except perhaps just for him.

Growing up in an international community. it was very, very common for families 'sent' abroad for a couple of years to spend much of that time missing 'home' and family, only on their return to spend all their holidays coming 'back' because they missed the lifestyle (which had been so despised when they were living in it). It is so easy to blame any unhappiness on the obvious presenting difference of location when it really does tend to exist inside oneself.

There are naturally concrete advantages and disadvantages to any solution. The place to start would be for him to do the 'work' to establish the change he wants to see. So often with the right help people can be supported to understand that it is in their power 'be the change they want to see'

Whatever else you do, please don't commit to doing more than is good for the family overall, especially before he has worked out what the real problem is. An offer to spend more time over there, even investing in property at the expense of renovations to make your lives here much more comfortable may be generous. It may not be in the best interest of the family overall. Likewise, his taking time out of family life to build his own life 'abroad' without his parenting responsibilities would not, in my book, be fair on the rest of the family.

How would he make this time out up to you? What are his plans for returning the favour to you of carrying the whole load by yourself? Oh, would he perhaps not even think about that side of things ?

I'm sure many families with children have had the experience of friends from a different stage in life visiting in the expectation of recreating that carefree life only to discover life had moved on for both parties. Indeed, the really selfish ones never even spot that the people they are visiting are no longer up for late, boozy nights.

The strongest message I read from your posts, with my apologies if this is not happy reading, is that you have picked up his unhappiness as another household problem for you to solve. Does that ring any bells for you?

It might help you to step back and give him whatever space he needs to work out what the problem is and what solutions might be best for the entire family.

I would encourage him to get the 'work' on himself started and go from there. Let him come up with some proposed solutions

we can't help how we feel can we

Goodness, you are very understanding, could you be even too understanding?

Thoughts and feelings are IMO very much intertwined. The job of doing 'work' or therapy is one way to get to the bottom of those thoughts and feelings, to understand how they came to be and what we can do to accept those that suit us and discard those that 'don't work for us'. If he isn't prepared to do that work on himself then he really doesn't get to disrupt your family life for his own selfish, unexamined reasons.

Can you work on improving his life here?

Another poster somehow internalising that by dint of 'wife work' you are somehow responsible for improving his life too. Is he a child or a partner?

What is he doing to improve his life here?

You mention groups he used to enjoy attending. He is the one who needs to take steps to rebuild his life here after the pandemic.

As PP have pointed out, many of us would love to escape back to our lives when they were carefree and with much less responsibility. The secret to happiness is to be grateful for what we have and to cherish the others in our lives. To see what we can do for them not yearn for what we have lots.

I hope you manage to get some perspective on this. It's so much easier to advise someone else to stop solving everyone else's problems, than to do it for oneself.

All the very best for you and your family.

Dairymilk50 · 15/04/2022 12:31

@Krakenchorus

This is what it is to marry someone from another country (I empathise). Some posters are trying to make out your dh's reasons as not good enough, or his motivations selfish. His desire to live in his own country is not selfish and it's no better or worse for his dc than the UK.

Home is always going yo be home, and a person can go through periods of missing it more or missing it less. And it doesn't hit you all at once, but in pieces as the consequences of choices pile up. Right now, he is trapped and maybe feeling resentful, and as it's easy to imagine you being in that position yourself, you no doubt understand.

I think you should stay in the UK. Because you strongly prefer to be in the UK. Someone has to lose in this equation, so don't agree to move if you do not want to.

If financially possible, the idea of buying a place in his country is a good one. It's a commitment. It also means that your children will have a home there. Because they may grow up to prefer the Uk or his country. Or a third option.

Be as supportive as possible, but also be clear about your intention to remain permanently in the UK.

This with bells on
EnglandvEurope · 15/04/2022 17:49

@FinallyHere
Thank you for your insights and honesty.
He doesn't really have concrete suggestions (as you might have guessed from my posts so far), it's more a general expression of his dissatisfaction and desire to move.
I do find him thoughtless and a bit selfish in some ways but he is also very selfless in many ways; he does more than his share of parenting and housework for example.

"An offer to spend more time over there, even investing in property at the expense of renovations to make your lives here much more comfortable may be generous. It may not be in the best interest of the family overall."
Over the last couple of days I've been thinking about my knee jerk reaction idea of abandoning the renovation plans in order to buy a property in his country, and on reflection I don't think it would be wise. We really need more space and it would improve our day-to-day lives, making both of us happier. I don't think DH wants to abandon the plans any more than I do.

"Likewise, his taking time out of family life to build his own life 'abroad' without his parenting responsibilities would not, in my book, be fair on the rest of the family."
I don't mind him doing the occasional short trip to see friends - maybe once or twice or year. I can and have asked my parents to help out while he's away, which they're happy to do.

"How would he make this time out up to you? What are his plans for returning the favour to you of carrying the whole load by yourself? Oh, would he perhaps not even think about that side of things ?"
He does think about this and has offered for me to take some time as well. I'm unlikely to go away for more than one night but certainly have whole days and/or evenings with my family or friends while he looks after the kids. We try and make things roughly fair although I tend to do more little and often whereas he'll want to do a short trip to his country.

"The strongest message I read from your posts, with my apologies if this is not happy reading, is that you have picked up his unhappiness as another household problem for you to solve. Does that ring any bells for you?"
Oh yes, absolutely. In theory, his mental health is his own responsibility. In reality, it affects all of us when he's unhappy. And - I think because of his dysfunctional upbringing - he struggles to face up to difficult emotions. I myself was raised as a bit of an emotional caretaker which is a tough habit to break. I also want him to be a good father to the children (which he is, most of the time, but could be better and enjoy parenting more if he worked on himself more). I know it's not a great dynamic in a relationship but it is a difficult one to change or at least we're finding it difficult to change.

Anyway, I think you're right and I need to step back a bit and see what he wants to do.

OP posts:
Calafsidentity · 15/04/2022 20:26

This isn't a criticism of the op or a comment on her particular situation, but honestly, reading some of the hyperbolic comments on this thread, you would think that no UK wives of mixed nationality couples ever manage to compromise and live abroad and thrive perfectly well! Whereas there are literally thousands of people who do this quite happily and their DC thrive too! From some of the comments here you would think the op was potentially moving to the outer reaches of the Mongolian desert or somewhere far-flung, not la belle France fhs! Smile

JulesRimetStillGleaming · 16/04/2022 12:27

@FinallyHere

Our kids are hard work and I appreciate the occasional help we get from my family.

On top of which, you write that you do the heavy lifting in terms of emotional support, too. What is he suggesting would replace these really key aspects of your life if you moved, even for a few years?

Usually, I'm a big fan of the experience of time 'abroad' especially for children, living in another culture. Seeing the principal of 'doing things differently' operating in real life is I think one of the most useful experience children can have. My parents, well father, spent many years working abroad, with his wife and two children in tow.

However, the experience is as nothing compared to being part of a wider, loving family and having people around who can support the one person providing emotion support to your whole family.

If he wants his proposal to even be considered, the onus is surely on him to propose really well thought out, practical plans for the success of this venture. It's really not enough for him to claim that he would be 'happier' elsewhere without demonstrating his understanding of the sacrifice he would be asking.

It speaks volumes that he isn't already taking these aspects into consideration. Is he thoughtless and perhaps, yes, even selfish in other ways?

In your shoes, I would encourage him to do some analysis on what would be different for him and for each of you. What each of you would gain and equally important, each, giving up.

In the absence of something like the opportunity to earn really life changing amounts of money, by the sacrifice of your networks of friends and family, I can't see how the benefits could outweigh the costs, except perhaps just for him.

Growing up in an international community. it was very, very common for families 'sent' abroad for a couple of years to spend much of that time missing 'home' and family, only on their return to spend all their holidays coming 'back' because they missed the lifestyle (which had been so despised when they were living in it). It is so easy to blame any unhappiness on the obvious presenting difference of location when it really does tend to exist inside oneself.

There are naturally concrete advantages and disadvantages to any solution. The place to start would be for him to do the 'work' to establish the change he wants to see. So often with the right help people can be supported to understand that it is in their power 'be the change they want to see'

Whatever else you do, please don't commit to doing more than is good for the family overall, especially before he has worked out what the real problem is. An offer to spend more time over there, even investing in property at the expense of renovations to make your lives here much more comfortable may be generous. It may not be in the best interest of the family overall. Likewise, his taking time out of family life to build his own life 'abroad' without his parenting responsibilities would not, in my book, be fair on the rest of the family.

How would he make this time out up to you? What are his plans for returning the favour to you of carrying the whole load by yourself? Oh, would he perhaps not even think about that side of things ?

I'm sure many families with children have had the experience of friends from a different stage in life visiting in the expectation of recreating that carefree life only to discover life had moved on for both parties. Indeed, the really selfish ones never even spot that the people they are visiting are no longer up for late, boozy nights.

The strongest message I read from your posts, with my apologies if this is not happy reading, is that you have picked up his unhappiness as another household problem for you to solve. Does that ring any bells for you?

It might help you to step back and give him whatever space he needs to work out what the problem is and what solutions might be best for the entire family.

I would encourage him to get the 'work' on himself started and go from there. Let him come up with some proposed solutions

we can't help how we feel can we

Goodness, you are very understanding, could you be even too understanding?

Thoughts and feelings are IMO very much intertwined. The job of doing 'work' or therapy is one way to get to the bottom of those thoughts and feelings, to understand how they came to be and what we can do to accept those that suit us and discard those that 'don't work for us'. If he isn't prepared to do that work on himself then he really doesn't get to disrupt your family life for his own selfish, unexamined reasons.

Can you work on improving his life here?

Another poster somehow internalising that by dint of 'wife work' you are somehow responsible for improving his life too. Is he a child or a partner?

What is he doing to improve his life here?

You mention groups he used to enjoy attending. He is the one who needs to take steps to rebuild his life here after the pandemic.

As PP have pointed out, many of us would love to escape back to our lives when they were carefree and with much less responsibility. The secret to happiness is to be grateful for what we have and to cherish the others in our lives. To see what we can do for them not yearn for what we have lots.

I hope you manage to get some perspective on this. It's so much easier to advise someone else to stop solving everyone else's problems, than to do it for oneself.

All the very best for you and your family.

Smug smug. I said can you improve on his life here meaning you as a couple. If he's miserable he might be too trapped in misery to look up and think of solutions. Are couples that love each other not allowed to help each other? I'm not heterosexual as it happens so do bog off with your assumptions.

Cameleongirl · 16/04/2022 17:39

I’ve lived in my DH’s home country for many years and it’s taken a lot of effort to adjust. We haven’t had support from his family, they’re nice people but v. hands-off. It does take considerable effort to fit into a new culture/country and there have been times that I’ve wanted to run back to the UK. I still have lovely friends there, but I’ve also made lovely new ones here- it took a while though.

As you’ve said, OP, you both need to think about the entire family’s needs. My DC are very settled here so I know I can’t uproot them, it’s not fair. DH and I have thought about a holiday home though and that might happen at sone point. I wish you the best of luck with whatever decision you both make- but don’t be hesitant to remind your DH that your children must come first. That’s what parents do!

maddy68 · 25/07/2022 11:16

I would go.
In fact I did. Brexit kinda forced our hand we said we would give it a year. No going back to the UK. I'm in Spain. It's such a better quality of life to bring up children schooling , healthcare , services are so much better work life balance definitely. Flights are cheap. I see my family once a month. It's easy to nip back for the weekend.

I have zero regrets on any level

Why not give it a try. You can always come back

maddy68 · 25/07/2022 11:18

Edmontosaurus · 13/04/2022 13:30

Those people saying that OP should move there for a couple of years are maybe missing the implications for the DC. Once they are settled in another EU country (in school) it becomes their usual place of residence and she will have no right to bring them back to UK if her DP does not agree. So she could find it becomes a permanent move whether she likes it or not.

Even countries which are Hague Convention signatories usually take the view that it is in a child’s best interest to remain in their usual place of residence. This is especially so with dual national children. Germany for example has a long record of refusing to return children with German citizenship even when they have been illegally abducted by the non custodial parent against the orders of a UK court.

That's not true at all in a European country they don't become citizens unless you apply for citizenship. Just become legal residents until you are sure

OneGuy · 22/09/2022 19:48

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

GreenGreenArse · 23/09/2022 09:52

Sorry to hear about this awful experience of being stuck abroad. I’ve had experience of making a move at a partner’s instigation, not even abroad, just far enough away to cause me massive family issues. It’s been very difficult.
The relationship, financial and general opportunity costs of having made that move have been huge and they are still being worked out years later. The benefits were only really being felt by my partner. So another thing I’d warn against is that if you move for someone else’s happiness, they will have very little incentive to help or be involved with any problems the move has caused.

Ivyonafence · 09/10/2022 09:36

@EnglandvEurope what did you end up deciding OP?