Help. DH wants to move to his country and I don't :(

[EnglandvEurope]

I'm a regular poster and I've name changed for this.

I'm British and DH is from a European country. We met in his country, but I had to move back to the UK to finish my studies and he was happy to come with me. We had always talked about the possibility of moving to his country at some point in the distant future, but I was always clear that I wanted to be in my country for having children and the early years.

Fast forward many years and a lot has happened. We are married with 2 children (age 5 and 18 months).

DH always had a bit of a strained relationship with his family (parents and sibling) and unfortunately a few years ago they fell out completely and he/we are no longer in contact with them. It is very sad but DH feels there is no hope of reconciliation.

My family is not perfect but I get on with them all, I have separated parents and a step-parent, as well as 3 siblings in this country (1 lives abroad) and 2 of my siblings here have children of their own.

It is important for me to see my family regularly and for my children to have relationships with their cousins. All the more so since we are estranged from DH's family.

We try and visit DH's country regularly but obviously that's been much more difficult in the last couple of years due to covid and having 2 young children. We didn't visit in 2020 but did visit in 2021 and we are planning at least one trip again this year.

DH says that he is deeply unhappy in this country and wants to move back to his country. He said that Brexit was the final straw. I think his feelings coincide with the big fallout with his family. It is probably a combination of factors.

We are stuck because I don't want to move to his country, at least not now. The main reason is my family, I desperately want to stay near them. If we had a good relationship with his family, it might compensate somewhat for being away from mine, but we won't see them at all.

If we didn't have children I think we would split up, but both of us want to be with the children, and it's not as if DH would move to his country without them.

What to do?

Our solution to a similar problem is to have a place in DH country (luckily cheaper than uk property!) and spend school holidays here. Actually he comes on his own too for work and to see family or friends

If you can afford it I would recommend this. I think his feelings about wanting to move back were party malaise at feeling detached from his home country and having our own place here seems to help a lot- for the same money we could rent holiday accommodation with a pool for our visits but that wouldn't make him happy in the same way

Sorry by our own place I mean we own a property here in case that was unclear!

Its not so easy to move to eu after brexit...loads of paper work for visa's ect...use this as your excuse not to go :)

I think therapy could play an important role for him and that estrangement is huge and very complicated for those who are in it. It’s probably very difficult to understand for anyone without that experience however well intentioned.
I wouldn’t move though if you have good happy family support and you are doing most of the parenting to two kids.

Not London but a city quite similar in terms of house prices, vast majority of remain voters, reasonably multinational population (lots of Europeans)

Edinburgh? I would have also put other Scottish/Northern Irish cities on there but for the house price clue. Anyway, if you're still here next winter, dose a load of vitamin D into him and get him a light box just in case the latitude is part of his unhappiness.

Don't move. It would be a disaster under the circumstances you have described.

He might have an altogether different obsession in six months and when he doesn't do the hard yards of the parenting and household management/mental load, he cannot have taken all the facts into consideration.

Just for your MH alone, you must not risk this.

I would absolutely not move unless my relationship was rock solid and yours isn't.

A lot of posters saying you should try it out for a bit don't seem to realise the implications of The Hague Convention

I am in the same situation but the other way around.
I’d love nothing more than to move back to my country. One trip a year is nothing, really nothing. His dcs are growing up not really knowing his culture (because a one trio a year won’t allow them to really know that culture - my dcs are young adults too and I can see that very clearly).

Butbthe ine thing that really broke the camel’s back has been Brexit. Before the U.K. was home, now it’s where I live. Don’t underplay that.

Would I insist that we all move back to my country? I wouldn’t and haven’t. Is it enough for me to consider getting divorced? Yes and it’s something I’m seriously considering, esp with the state of the current government and how unsafe it feels to live in the U.K. as an immigrant (and yes that’s depsite the settled status etc…)

Does it mean you should go with him? Only you can tell. You’ll have to decide to weight up how important your marriage is for you, living as a family, your dcs seeing their father vs being close to your family.
I’d be weary to drag things out too. You always knew he wanted to go back to his country. You knew it was on the cards. Don’t make him think you might be happy to leave of you don’t mean it.

Glad you seem to have received some useful advice here OP. I'm the expat partner in my marriage and we live far away from both our families (my parents are very difficult so I prefer not being in the same country, although we aren't estranged). We've talked about leaving here on occasion, with our own pre-Brexit-pregnancy dc if inflation etc. gets really bad, but it would most likely be to a third country.

Good luck with the holiday hom idea, and definitely don't move if your family is helping you out so much. Make sure he has British citizenship (took almost 12 months in total for me, last year) if ever you do ever change your mind and decide to move to France or it'll be so difficult for him (and your family) to come back later.

Don't move.

It would be you dealing with the hassle of uprooting your children, doing all the practical and emotional labour that comes with that (researching schools, booking trips back, supporting children to make new friends, finding childcare, finding a new dentist, doctor, hairdresser, plumber etc etc etc, helping children settle in and dealing with them missing their friends and family, getting your possessions over, setting up a new home etc etc) I'm tired just thinking about it. I can just image you drowning in all that needs to be done while he skips off to watch football every weekend with his high school friends. No thanks.

Then you have to make a life away from your support network and all the people, places and services that make parenting and day to day life easier for you.

Thats before you even consider that you might want to come back, or the marriage might fail in which case you have put yourself in an extremely vulnerable position legally. A situation that could end with your children in one country and you in another. Unthinkable.

All for what? So he can spend more time with his mates?!

If they are such good friends and only a short flight away, why aren't they visiting each other often already?

It sounds like he wants to recapture the good old days when life was easier. But we can't turn back the clock.

His family situation is sad and it doesn't seem like he's dealt with it. Losing connections with your own family won't bring back what he lost with his.

I agree counselling in the short term, he needs to look at why he's unhappy and be more precise about what will make him happy. In the medium term, looking at a long trip once a year (a month or so during break so there is lots of time for seeing friends and experiencing culture) in an Airbnb if you can afford it seems like a fair way to keep his connections with friends and country without uprooting your lives.

DH and I have small children and jobs. The reality of this phase of life is that we don't spend much time socialising with our friends. People we saw constantly for brunches, nights out, road trips etc pre-children are now people we see once every few months and a much tamer affair. It's not a phase of life is focused on friends.

You're in the trenches with small kids, there's been a pandemic, the stuff with his family has unmoored him. I suspect he's unhappy in general because life has been hard. This won't fix it. He could very well uproot you all, move home and then find his mates are busy with their own jobs, wives and children and can only see him every couple of months anyway!

@Fraaahnces
It's not Greece! (If it was I'd have said no way from the start - nice place to go on holiday, wouldn't want to live there!)

@alexdgr8
Why do you say that?

@needmorethanthis
All very good points thank you. If anything happened to us (either or both of us) my family would indeed step in - and the thought of living in DH's country and that happening doesn't bear thinking about Another big worry of mine is that in DH's country, grandparents have the legal right to contact with grandchildren, so if PILs knew we'd moved there, they could take us to court for access
I don't think DH wants to split up - I might be wrong but I have a feeling he'd be devastated if we did.

@SpidersAreShitheads
I agree with you about the importance of family. I'm sorry you lost your dad too soon
I do have some worries about how autism would be treated in DH's country so I will research it some more, thank you. It would be a deal breaker for us. I think it would probably be the one thing we could agree on (unlike general health and education in each country!)

@MotherOfCrocodiles
Thank you. It's good to hear that owning property in your husband's country has helped him to feel happier.

@barms90
We all have citizenship of DH's country (myself and DC as well as DH) so no need for visas - I'm sure there would be plenty of admin but immigration would not be an issue at all.

I have a plan now thanks to all the advice on here. Encourage DH to organise extended stays in his country over the school holidays (research Airbnbs & childcare options) with a view to buying a property there if it works out and if/when we can afford it. Encourage DH to apply for British citizenship so that if he does move back to his country (with or without us) he will have the option to move back to the UK. And we probably need to do some more couple's counselling as well (we've done it a few times in the past).

I just saw that you've had your own mental health struggles in the past. Absolutely do not move. Protect your mental health. Especially if you know he won't step up to support you if you're unwell again.

@Ivyonafence

Don't move.

It would be you dealing with the hassle of uprooting your children, doing all the practical and emotional labour that comes with that (researching schools, booking trips back, supporting children to make new friends, finding childcare, finding a new dentist, doctor, hairdresser, plumber etc etc etc, helping children settle in and dealing with them missing their friends and family, getting your possessions over, setting up a new home etc etc) I'm tired just thinking about it. I can just image you drowning in all that needs to be done while he skips off to watch football every weekend with his high school friends. No thanks.

Then you have to make a life away from your support network and all the people, places and services that make parenting and day to day life easier for you.

Thats before you even consider that you might want to come back, or the marriage might fail in which case you have put yourself in an extremely vulnerable position legally. A situation that could end with your children in one country and you in another. Unthinkable.

All for what? So he can spend more time with his mates?!

If they are such good friends and only a short flight away, why aren't they visiting each other often already?

It sounds like he wants to recapture the good old days when life was easier. But we can't turn back the clock.

His family situation is sad and it doesn't seem like he's dealt with it. Losing connections with your own family won't bring back what he lost with his.

I agree counselling in the short term, he needs to look at why he's unhappy and be more precise about what will make him happy. In the medium term, looking at a long trip once a year (a month or so during break so there is lots of time for seeing friends and experiencing culture) in an Airbnb if you can afford it seems like a fair way to keep his connections with friends and country without uprooting your lives.

DH and I have small children and jobs. The reality of this phase of life is that we don't spend much time socialising with our friends. People we saw constantly for brunches, nights out, road trips etc pre-children are now people we see once every few months and a much tamer affair. It's not a phase of life is focused on friends.

You're in the trenches with small kids, there's been a pandemic, the stuff with his family has unmoored him. I suspect he's unhappy in general because life has been hard. This won't fix it. He could very well uproot you all, move home and then find his mates are busy with their own jobs, wives and children and can only see him every couple of months anyway!

Completely agree with every word of this.

I’d also say didn’t underestimate how hard it is to fit in the U.K./england.

You seem to be living somewhere relatively multicultural but it can still be much harder to find true friends in the U.K. than it will be in his home country.
Add to that the fact that he is now NC with his family, his ‘TRUE’ friends back home will be like family to him now. His link to his country and culture. The people he can deeply relate to and has a long history with.

I’d think about it that way.
If for you being near your family is essential etc… so you want to be in the U.K., could you see why he’d want the same thing for himself?
If he was involved in the move back to the U.K. and supported you doing that, can you see it would only be fair to do the same for him trying to let’s say spend the 6 weeks hols in his country rather than leaving to him (and hoping he never manages to organise it so you can then say he didn’t really want it?)

I’d also echo what @SpidersAreShitheads said regarding ASD supports in France. I have an autistic child (and a second one who will probably be diagnosed soon) and anecdotally I have heard that it is years behind in terms of approach - never mind inclusion - of autistic people. I would caution I have no lived experience of this do it may not be wholly accurate, but if you have any question at all over whether your child may be on the spectrum you must research this inside out before deciding to move. Life is hard enough with the system we have; it could be unbearable for both you and your child if what I have read is true.

If we talk about counselling, say look at counselling a couple.

Again, he made a huge effort in following you here. And left a lot of things behind TO BE WITH YOU. You were the driving force there.

But somehow, now that he’d like the same thing than you, only your needs are important. Too much of a hassle organising etc….
It point out towards a certain dynamic within the couple that isn’t helpful (which yes could include you doing all the legwork and him expecting you to do that - which I’d want to address anyway…. But not just that)

I think what your husband needs to understand is that he can't 'go back' , moving to his home country is a move into the unknown, it will not be the same as when he lived there.

OK left field question, would any of your family move with you? Or for extended visits?

How far away is the country?

I can see why you don't want to go and I can also see that your husband doesn't feel welcome here.

Obviously I don't know your jobs / careers but is there something you could do that would allow more time outside work so you could have 2-3 month visits?

Someone I trained with would spend the winter as a chalet girl and then work through an agency in the summer, obviously she was single

@MarriedThreeChildren
Well, moving back to the UK at the beginning of our relationship was much less complicated (only the two of us to worry about) but he did find a job here. I have never dismissed the leap of faith he made in moving to the UK with me so early in the relationship. He was happy to do so and even bought a property here (in his name only, before we got married) quite quickly.
I do agree with you that his friends are like his family to him now. However, they don't feel the same about us. They have their own families and holiday plans during the school holidays. Personally I find that quite painful (though understandable of course). Not sure if DH does too.
In reality I won't leave him to do all the organising of trips to his country - I can't help myself - but I do want him to be proactive and for it to be more of a team effort.

I could have written your post OP - except that in our case DH’s home country isn’t a place most people would consider moving (unsafe, undemocratic, extreme weather). It’s a hard no from me and I think my DH and to some extent yours just want a windmill to tilt at. Adult life with kids is very different from being in your early twenties and hanging out with your mates all day. Plenty of holidays and language immersion sounds like a great compromise.

@MarriedThreeChildren

If we talk about counselling, say look at counselling a couple.

Again, he made a huge effort in following you here. And left a lot of things behind TO BE WITH YOU. You were the driving force there.

But somehow, now that he’d like the same thing than you, only your needs are important. Too much of a hassle organising etc….
It point out towards a certain dynamic within the couple that isn’t helpful (which yes could include you doing all the legwork and him expecting you to do that - which I’d want to address anyway…. But not just that)

He wanted to move to the UK. You are being completely unfair to say that only my needs matter to me. I have the needs of four people to consider, my two children most importantly, myself secondly (because I need to be ok to be a good mother to them) and - sorry, not sorry - DH a close third. Of course his needs are as important as mine but I am not going to put him first before myself and my children. Not when I'm the emotional rock of the family.

@sashh
No my family wouldn't move to DH's country with us; they don't speak DH's language, their lives and other family are here. I'm sure they'd visit if we lived there.
The country isn't far.
We both have jobs that we can do WFH (silver lining of covid is that my employer made huge changes to facilitate this) so I think we could continue working during extended visits to his country, as long as we could get childcare.

Friends will make an effort to catch up if they think you're going back, summer holidays are always a bit more carefree, and you'll feel ok because you're going home and your dh will feel ok because he will think he's convincing you to move permanently.

And that would be lying to him/stringing him along which is probably the worst thing you can do.

I'm in the opposite situation to you. I'm married to an EU citizen and am British, living in DH's home country. I do love it out here but part of me wants to move home as I miss certain cultural aspects that are different here. I also miss my family and would prefer my son to see them more often. (Despite having fantastic health care and free higher education out here which is keeping me here for now).
I think it's only fair you go out there for a few years to try it on the agreement you'd discuss going back if you became unhappy.

I have to say I’m intrigued about your family situation.

You have your DH’s country citizenship. It is in the U.K. so you didn’t need it to be able to stay forever there, all that with being in the EU etc…

So I assume that you had that citizenship from one of your parents or you really wanted to be a citizen there and wanted to stay?

@MarriedThreeChildren

I have to say I’m intrigued about your family situation.

You have your DH’s country citizenship. It is in the U.K. so you didn’t need it to be able to stay forever there, all that with being in the EU etc…

So I assume that you had that citizenship from one of your parents or you really wanted to be a citizen there and wanted to stay?

I'm British and my parents are British. I have also acquired citizenship of DH's country thanks to being married to him. I applied after Brexit for obvious Brexity reasons!