I wish we’d never moved

[IJumpedAboardAPirateShip]

I am so so homesick and have been for a while, I just want to move back to the U.K. we’ve been in the stages for 8+ years and DH has always been anti a return back but the intention was never to stay forever. We are at a total stalemate even being able to talk about it so we’re going to couples therapy to try to navigate our way through.

We’ve had a good life here but now it’s tarnished by me feeling totally trapped and I just want out. I honestly wish we’d never come in the first place.

I envy your sessions it's something we could do with too. We've been on rightmove a lot too this week! Having both options is great, although for as we have been back and forth I'm quite excited to have the decision of our home base made. The thing that's most concerning me right now is schooling. My kids have got very used to progressive education which is very sparse in the UK. I don't want to dictate our area of living completely around it as it would mean starting somewhere from scratch and I'm so keen to return to some familiarity. So I find myself at stalemate once again!

You've lived up to your end of the agreement and then some. Your DH is being U and selfish.
But I dont know where you stand legally with the kids.
Hope you can get home soon.
Could you ask to move back for a few years? And then just refuse to return? After all hes not played fair...
Counselling sounds good unless he is secretly thinking he can get the counsellor on side.
God I'm cynical in my old age.

@IJumpedAboardAPirateShip those tactic by your DH are very unpleasant.

He seems to be relishing that he has all the power in the relationship? "We can only move if I say so and I choose the property with no regard for how it will affect you and the DC"

I have a suspicion that he will insist on something so ridiculous (isolated, no work opportunities for you, shit social life for the DC and you) that you end up pulling the plug on relocating back.

I would honestly be tempted to come on holiday to the UK and refuse to board the plane back...

Your H actually sounds very selfish and rather controlling.

I would honestly be tempted to come on holiday to the UK and refuse to board the plane back

Not sure that this advice is any less selfish or controlling.

The DH is clearly struggling with the idea. Neither OP or her DH are right or wrong, they just need to figure out how they can both be happy. Sounds like therapy is a productive way to get there.

Yeah it’s tough @Smellysaurus and I wouldn’t want to be that kind of person either. I really want us to make a decision together. I sat him down yesterday afternoon and we talked about the Rightmove thing. I said it felt like he was trying to create an insurmountable condition and he apologised and said that’s not what he was trying to do and we had a call sensible chat where we worked out what was important. I made it clear the point in having therapy was to be able to hash everything out and talk about it calmly and rationally. Anyway. It was good.

I do think maybe he gets defensive because he knows I’m not going to budge. Maybe that’s unfair but I’m seeing this as finding the way we can both happily move home, not looking at an option where we stay. I don’t want to stay.

@IJumpedAboardAPirateShip I am really glad that you called him out on his behaviour!

Ultimately only one of you can "win" but as you've wanted to actively return to the UK for 5 years he would be very selfish to expect you to stay knowing how unhappy you are. Especially when you can hand on heart say that you have tried very hard to establish yourself there and be happy.

I hope he can now put forward some realistic things he thinks he would like in a house and location in the UK so they can be worked through.

As yours are approaching the teen years it's things like not living in an isolated village - somewhere with decent public transport and local shops/activities or quick easy access to them.

Yup that’s exactly what I said @RandomMess he wants peace and quiet and I made the point we can get that on the edges of a town. I would personally like to be in the centre of a city but it won’t be a success if he’s miserable so I’m of course prepared to compromise but also want to make sure the kids have their independence

@IdblowJonSnow I think we both assume we can get the therapist on our sides - I know I am for sure!!

What does he like most about his life now that he will loose by returning to the UK?

He has a great work life balance and earns a very good wage and the weather is great. And he doesn’t have any emotional ties or pulls to the uk

I just wanted to add thankyou for the support, even though opinions differ and are coming at it from different places, it’s really kind of all of you to take the time to respond and make me feel less alone and desperate

Why would he lose a great work/life balance in the UK?

Would the family income V costs be that much worse in the UK?

Sadly the weather is what it is 🤷🏽‍♀️

Currently he has unlimited paid time off and lives a 15min bike ride from work with a super flexible company (whose flexibility has allowed me to rekindle my career) so finding the same situation where he doesn’t have to live in the middle of London will be tricky

Yeah he commands about 1/3 the wage in the U.K. for the same job with similar companies. It’s more expensive to live here and I think we can use rental income from our home here to pay mortgage/rental costs in the U.K. but he still sees that massive drop in earnings and its affects his willingness to move back

Earnings are only relevant to outgoings though aren't they?

Does he not want the DC to experience all the culture and experiences of London and Europe rather than the much narrower experience of where you are now?

Would your life be better in the UK? What about the DC?

If you take into account college/uni fees how does that affect your lifestyle out there?

It seems like he has a dream job out there and selfishly he doesn't want to give that up I don't understand how he can have unlimited paid time off - so can he take 12 months off and not work and still get paid?

I get where he's coming from in terms of work life balance. Our life here in the US is also far better than the life we'd live in the UK.

But it's not all about him - you've made sacrifices so that he can live his pleasant life, but that's not something that you should have to do forever. You shouldn't have to carry on being unhappy just to keep him in his nice comfortable life.

One thing I would think about is college fees. Are you in California? If so, you have access to all the UC colleges for about half the rate they cost the rest of the country. OTOH UK universities are cheaper again and the loan is better value.

@RandomMess you’re preaching to the choir somewhat 😆 yup all those things are part of my argument! AND climate change anxiety and the sheer number of flights we take because we live so far away.

So the job isn’t perfect, he has a love hate relationship with it, he’s ready to move on to something else. Unlimited PTO means yes there’s no limit on how much they take, a lot of tech companies out here follow the same model. They expect the work to get done and employees not to leave their teams unsupported during crunch times etc. For some that means they do nothing but work and then take a month or two off to travel, for my DH he probably takes 5 weeks in total in the year still at most but he also
Will finish work early to get the kids if I have out of town work etc so the PTO allows a huge amount of flexibility in the working day not just in terms of actual holiday.

@HoldMyLobster yeah it’s hard because there are definitely some aspects to quality of life that just can’t be replicated in the U.K. (please see aforementioned weather!!) its not a black and white decision for me either. We are in California and of course the UC system is excellent. I need to look into the possibilities that if we keep our house here is there some residency loophole that means we could pay state fees etc but also you have to live in the U.K. for 3 years before applying through UCAS to pay resident fees otherwise you’re treated as overseas student so there’s that to take into account too

I really get the dilemma. If you have a good income and job you love here it's a great life. My husband benefits from all of those things where as I cannot get a licence for my profession here and would still have the long route of obtaining a green card ahead. One way or another I could still use my skills but it would be a long road to get there. I love the lifestyle here but feel uncertain about it being our forever home. My worst case scenario is staying here long enough for all the kids education but then wishing to go home some time after and they all or even one of them wanting to remain here.

I was wondering what your own reasons are for wanting to return to the UK?

This decision is about fundamentally shaping who your children will grow up to be. Whether they will consider themselves American (albeit with UK connections) or British, having spent time in the US as children.
I would personally find it very hard to commit my children to being American. Whilst you might be experiencing some of the great advantages of the country at present it is also a place where accessing education and healthcare can potentially bankrupt you in the future. You never know what path your child might go down.

Does it have to be the UK op?

I’m a weeny bit biased towards your husband as I’m the one with the good job and the short commute while DH is a sahd. We’ve got a great lifestyle abroad and we couldn’t replicate it in the UK. Given that I’m the main breadwinner with better career prospects, I would find it hard to accept we needed to move back. Not that being the main breadwinner gives me the trump card but the sacrifice we’d make financially and logistically would be hard (I make 3 times what I could in through UK and my commute to our home town would add 3 hours per day, we’d both need to work FT so childcare complications would arise too). The travel and leisure activities where we live now far exceed anything in the UK. But then neither me or DH want to move back.....

@Canihaveafairygodmotherpls that is a big fear of mine. We stay, the children become american, they never leave, a cultural divide is created between my children and myself and eventually I am forced to choose between ageing parents and my kids. And I can never go home. @Antipodeancousin that ties into your point. There are a lot of things I don’t like about America and it’s society. I also think my own DH has become more materialistic and conservative (not in terms of political party, he’s still a liberal, but in himself) because we live here. And besides we’re getting naturalised so everyone has the option later if they want it because god know what the U.K. will look like in 10 years!

@Smellysaurus I would absolutely consider Europe close enough to get a train back to the U.K. (so what, Amsterdam or Paris?) but even though DH could get a remote working job I can’t so now I’m a SAHM again (which doesn’t suit me) and the kids have to learn another language (they’re learning Spanish at the moment). I would want to avoid having to fly back to the U.K. and one of my many reasons for moving back to reduce our carbon footprint from the flights we take.

Being the sahp doesn’t suit me either so I do get this. And I understand about bringing your kids up abroad and the whole piece around identity. Mine are “different” now when we go back, they are still primary school age yet have had such different experiences to kids back in the uk already. I don’t know where we’ll retire but probably not where we are now, so who knows where we’ll end up, maybe by then we’ll have more a yearning for “home” again.

This is the complicated side of living abroad isn’t it. It’s all a big adventure until you start thinking longer term and then it gets tricky to work through, and sacrifices have to be made somewhere along the way.

I would be asking DH why he thinks it's ok to put money before family? Just because he doesn't have family ties in the UK why is he so keen to keep you away from your parents and the DC grandchildren?

Is there any reason he couldn't work for his company from the UK seeing as they are so wonderful?? He could fly out every 2nd or 3rd month, ask them to trial it? Covid has certainly proved that you don't need to be physically located in the same place to work.

@RandomMess I love how on my side you are! You’re right it’s a very valid question, I guess I’m trying to make it a conversation rather than an accusation but it’s good to have someone reminding me stuff like this. Therapy is helping us have calmer conversations though.

He is actually considering a version where he stays with this job and works remotely and if he could do that on EST rather than PST to not make it such a ball ache with GMT and I said I was fine with him flying out for however long at a time. I really don’t want to do it the other way around and I think in the situation where we’re in the U.K. maybe his company would also pay for his flights out? And accommodation or we could turn our garage into a guest house so he has a “home” to stay in?

I suppose I feel he's had his 8 years, it was supposed to be temporary and now he's saying no...

He is very happy with his life and he seems to think that is all that matters? The stunt over looking at rightmove houses was pretty ghastly. It feels like he is paying lip service to his little wife with no intention of returning.

I suppose ultimately if he refuses to return what are you going to do?

I don’t honestly know. I’m hoping it won’t come to that. I also know that if we move back and he’s miserable and doesn’t make an effort and I’m happy then I will not be moving back here so maybe I’m as bad as he is 🤷🏻‍♀️