All those online for NZ timezone!

[buzzybee]

Hi all. Used to be a regular on MN when I lived in London but since moving back to NZ have found it harder to make the connections due to all the brits being asleep when us down under are online! So if anyone is keen to start a thread for those of us in this predicament please reply! My DD has just turned 5 and started school last week (scary). Have just found out I'm expecting number 2 - due roughly Xmas day...

Hi Ladies, I don't have much to say, except that I hope that all goes well for both of you.

Thanks Anna. I haven't really talked to anyone properly yet. Tried to get hold of MW tonight but not home. Have told a few people via text and expect I'll have at least a couple of long chats over the weekend - with my Mum and at least 1 other friend. I'm going to sit down tonight and record my thoughts on paper. I do think I could cope OK but at what cost? DD is the most precious thing in my life and I'd never want to jeopardise her happiness. Part of me thinks I'll just take the risk and hope for the best. But my analytical brain tells me I need to know all the facts before I can make an informed choice....
My thoughts will be with you on Tuesday. Here's hoping we both get the outcome we want. {{{{ }}}

Any decision on the amnio, Buzzybee?

I read this weekend that you can only have one up till 20 weeks, which would actually mean I can't have one now. I'm not sure if it's true but if it is it takes the decision away from me, which is actually al,most a relief as I'm just going round and round in circles thinking about it!

Hope you are working things out in your head

Its so HARD isn't it! I THINK I've decided to have the amnio. Best, least risky time is apparently around 16 weeks so need to wait another 2 weeks. Flip flop all the time about what I'd do if it came back positive. Really hope today went OK for you.

Went for the scan today and all is good - as far as they can tell - put my risk of baby having DS back down to 1 in 2000+ (which it was before the scan last week.) They checked loads of things in really great detail and I was nervous but woman v reassuring. No other markers for Downs and lots of things fine that prob wouldn't have been if baby had DS. Really hope everything goes good for you if/when you have amnio. Are you having the blood test at 15 weeks too?

That's fantastic Anna!! So pleased for you. No-one in wellington seems to have heard of the serum test. Appears to be only available in Akld. I could possibly enquire directly to the labs here to see if they could send up to Akld but I guess its not worth it if I'm having the amnio as on its own its just another screening test which is supposedly less accurate than the nuchal fold. I read on a well respected UK website that the absence of a nasal bone at the 13 week scan is another key indicator of DS so (untrained as I am!) went and looked at the plastic scan copies I was given and I could clearly see the bone as described on the website so that gave me some reassurance. Given your positive experience with the detailed scan I might ask if I can go somewhere for the 20 week scan which enables that sort of level of detail as well. I was NOT impressed with the guy who did my nuchal scan - he was very uncommunicative and clinical about the whole thing.
The other wee problem I have is that I still haven't told my work about pg and now rather hesitant to do so until I get the results of the amnio. But will prob be about 19 weeks by then so might be a bit hard to hide...

Yes, the presence of the nasal bone is a really good sign. I'm not sure how many foetuses with DS dont' have the nasal bone but I think it's pretty high. That was one of the things they pointed out to me today - that the nasal bone had developed normally.

Does the amnio take 3 weeks to come back? Seems like a long time.

Yep according to my GP they are run off their feet and although they say 2-3 weeks more likely to be 3. Apparently they can provide a "preliminary result" within 3 days tho so that may be some reassurance. No-one I've talked to seems to be able to give a clear answer as to whether a detailed 20 week scan would give me the reassurance I need without the risk of the amnio. They all say "only amnio can diagnose 100%". I know that (!!!) but I'm not looking for 100% reassurance, after all if the nuchal had come back at the 1:150 my age indicates then I probably wouldn't be even thinking about an amnio. It seems if you're an ob/gyn the easy answer is just to direct you towards the amnio and avoid the need to give an opinion. Which is the reason I will be seriously thinking about having a home birth again this time. Sorry, ranting - must be those hormones running amok again...

Anna, sorry to use you as my consultant but actually you've been so much more helpful and reassuring that most of the experts I've talked to - yay for Mumsnet!! Would you mind giving me a little more detail on the things they looked for at your scan? It sounds like it was hugely reassuring.
The thing that worries me most about DS is the risk of other complications like heart defects. "Straight up" DS I think I could manage but my GP really scared me by telling that the only DS patient she'd had had died as a pre-schooler. So in a way the amnio will only give me half the story - and I'm told that once the result comes through I'll only be given about 24 hours to make up my mind...
Thanks so much Anna.

Hi Buzzy, it's 1am and I can;t sleep so naturally I got onto MN!

I'll try to remember what they checked for at the scan. Cysts on the brain, nasal bone present, various facial features, heart and stomach being separate, nuchal fold, kidneys (can be dilated if baby has DS),size of tube from kidneys to bladder, length of arm and leg bones (can be short if baby has DS) and overall size of the baby (can be small if has DS). She spent quite a long time looking at the heart as a heart defect is major sign. I think having a few of the weaker markers doesnt neccessarily mean DS, someone posted on MN that they had 4 soft markers but baby didn't have DS. But obviously the more markers the higher the risk.

She may have checked for other stuff too, but that's what I remember. I had the scan at National Womens at the main Auckland Hospital and the sonographer and doctor were both really helpful and reassuring, obviously they get a lot of high risk/follow up scans referred to them so they are good at dealing with them. CAn you be referred to main hospital in Wellington for your 20 week scan? May be better at looking for stuff there than at one of the general radiology places.

I have a friend in Petone with 2 dds, trying to remember if she ever had the serum test. Though if you're having amnio it doesn't really matter.

Right , must try to get more sleep.

hello, I am just here in the sidelines keeping up with what everyone is up to but haven't had much time to be online, just wanted to say my thoughts are with you both and please try not to get too stressed out (easy for me to say, I know) but meant with heartfelt wishes.

Well I contacted Lab+ in Auckland today and they sent down the lab forms to my GP so I'm going to get that maternal serum test done then make final decision on the amnio. Would never have known about it if you hadn't told me as no-one in wellington I've talked to appears to be even aware of it!! The woman I talked to in Akld was really helpful. Makes me think there's a gap in the market (so to speak) to help women/couples make these hard decisions. Ministry of Health guidelines are not very helpful either - they positively discourage amnios but on the other hand provide very little in the way of useful information to help us make decisions! I also emailed the Fetal Medicine Centre in London and they very kindly replied but of course hard for them to say much from this distance. They did say the presence of the nasal bone reduces the false positive rate from 5% to 2.5% but must admit all the statitics confuse me somewhat! I see you're on the Due in Nov thread - I'm on the Dec one.

It's bizarre how in different parts of a pretty small country we got such different information about tests. When I first went to my dr (2 days after positive pg test) the first thing she did was give me a factsheet about the pg including details of nuchal fold and maternal serum test. So I knew about these options pretty much from day one. You would think there would be a national standard or policy or whatever for these tests, apparently not! And it's hardly like you're in some godforsaken corner of the country (like, um, Gore is springing to mind but that's very unfair of me, I've never even been there), you're in the capital.

I know from my antenatal thread that diff parts of the UK have different policies on tests too - some people on there dont' get a 20 week scan and some don't do nuchal fold and/or blood tests. Quite a few health authorities over there won't tell you sex of baby in case someone aborts for that reason.

The NZ HTA has this year published a report called "NZHTA - Strategies for Antenatal Down Syndrome Screening Report". I haven't seen the final version but commented on the drafts for them. You could google it I guess. I think this is the first step towards having a coordinated policy.

buzybee, I have just seen your message re. meet up and have left you a message on that thread.

Buzzy and Anna, how are you getting on?

Hope all is well and you're putting your feet up and keeping warm!

Hi Welliemum, I'm doing fab, very relaxed again after my follow-up scan showed all was (probably) well. Seem to have loads of energy suddenly which is nice. 23 wks tomorrow. Am keeping warm too! Though not too cold up here, just rain rain and more rain at the mo.

Buzzy, how's it going? Any developments? Ignore me if I'm being nosy, hope all is OK.

Hi Anna and Welliemum. Have been living up to me nickname this week, buzzing around all over the place and not on MN at all! Nothing much to report at the moment but I'm feeling remarkably positive. I had about 10 nights in a row waking up with horrible nightmares but that seems to have eased off a bit, I guess I'm taking a rather fatalistic attitude now. I managed to have the maternal serum test done yesterday (yay!) so really waiting on those results now. Also talked to the Fetal Medicine Midwife at Wellington Womens and said I'd quite like to (a) wait for the results from the serum test, and (b) have a detailed ultrasound scan done, before I decide whether to proceed with the amnio. She was good about that and said she'd talk to the doctors about getting me into the hospital to have the detailed scan done. Fingers crossed they will agree and I will have that done around 17.5 weeks (am currently 16 weeks)
It was nice to meet Kjaysmum at the weekend - we should try and organise something where you can come too Welliemum! Is there any time at weekends would be better for you?

same as busybee, I left a message for you om our little bit of kiwi thread, I'd love to do another meet up, baring in mind I'm off to UK for 6 weeks in three weeks. Great to hear you sounding so positive and in a good frame of mind

thats me by the way !

Hey, it's good to hear you pregnant folk sounding positive!

I'm keen for a meetup! Weekends are always busy because we're renovating our house/property and that's when we do most of the work. But I can get away for a coffee as long as we don't have something specific happening. Let me know a good time!

How about weekend of 11/12 August? Maybe at Junglerama in Newtown? Weather's bound to be foul.

Hi all,

Well I have survived my first week here in Lower Hutt in the motel with 3 kids (6,3 & 2). I have (fingers crossed) found a rental for when our container turns up in August, a car and now I just need some help with my sanity and finding some new friends for myself and the kids. If anyone can help or are about this week, have a coffee morning going on I would love to meet up with some other mums with kids and find my feet a little more!

Zoe
[email protected]

Hi Zoej, welcome to Wellington!
Afraid I work full time so no go during the week but happy to meet you next weekend (14/15 July) if you want? Could meet somewhere like Te Papa.
Have you arrived from the UK then? Are you a returning kiwi, married to a kiwi or none of the above?

Hi,
yes we have arrived from the uk, Sussex. Hubby has a job and some how I have ended up looking after the 3 kids and sorting the house out. I plan to return to work once I have them all at school/ore school etc and settleI do want to do te Papa with them, especially my 6 year old - he wants to do the poison creatures thing. Also need to get an annual pass for the zoo - they have spiders there too on a Saturday.
Which day next weekend is good for you? and what time?

Zoe