British parents in France, French parents in GB - what are the best/worst bits about the way the other nationality raises their kids?

[Othersideofthechannel]

This is following on from the snacking debate in Food (sorry, can't make links work) and I do understand that not everyone from the same country chooses the same methods, but there are some cultural tendencies. Which one do you select/reject and why?
Anna8888 are you there?

After I moved to France (well, to a DOM), I jumped through all the hoops: Capes, Agrég, thèse. I'm now a Maître de Conférences and teach mainly literature and translation. A lot of hard work and sacrifices for 2000 euros/month. Sometimes I consider shifting slowly into freelance translation work, but it's a scary prospect.
I do feel that I am justified in thinking it's important to speak and write correctly. But there is such a huge gulf between that attitude and the approach of the students I come across, British or French, that I sometimes get the impression that I am of a completely different, soon-to-be obsolete generation.
[AA re-read her message for the 4th time, worried about falling into the classic trap of criticising the level of written English in a message riddled with typos!]

I'm a translator, but I choose to be employed rather than freelance because the amount they have to pay in cotisations sociales and tax makes it hardly worthwhile. I looked into it, but the paperwork alone makes me shudder.

AA - God you are brave to have done all that.

I got fed up with the French looking at me as if I was some uneducated moron and did an MBA at Insead. I'm 100% sure it was far easier than what you did but at least now I have that Grande Ecole label that they value so much.

Forgot to say that I'm a total pedant with language too, I think it goes with the job.

And same here re the year abroad. We went to about half a dozen lectures and tutorials all year because no one seemed to care if we were there or not. Made a great set of friends though, from whom we learnt heaps of colloquial French, and met my future DH!

Hi everyone, really enjoyed reading this thread as I often feel frustrated with some of the cultural differences in French/UK child rearing.

I am British, my husband is French and we have two children. The eldest is 3.5 and the youngest is 9 months.
I don't know much about the school system as our children are so young but have heard similar things to what some posters say in this thread.

I am currently a SAHM and am finding it quite hard partly due to the lack of mother/toddler groups, parks, etc. Other things that do my head in are;

Attitude to illness, nobody ever has a cold or a throat infection, they've all got 'une larangite' or 'une doulbe mega otite' that requires poshly packaged medecine and several trips to the doctor.

Attitude to breastfeeding, longer than 6 months is considered extended.

Shoes! As soon as children look like they might want to walk everybody shoves sturdy boots on them to 'support their ankles'. My MIL went out and bought DD1 a pair as she was concerned that I let her run about in barefeet/socks.

Weaning, still very oldfashioned, cereal in bottles, baby rice from 4 months is the norm round these parts.

Obsession with women's weight during and after pregnancy, medicalised births, etc.

Children's TV is utter crap (we got a sattelite dish installed so that we could have Cbeebies).

Smacking!! Am regularly shocked by my lovely French friends who smack their kids (often without warning) and think that I am a hippy dippy softy cos I explain things to my kids.

Phew, I could go on as I love having a good moan about this! There are of course loads of good things about France too but it does seem to me that a lot of child rearing stuff is a bit outdated. Will have a think and post later with some positive comments so as to not be too one sided.

I think language pedantry is a mindset. My father was a publisher and lots of members of my family were in publishing and the senior Civil Service, which are very pedantic. So I grew up with it, value it, and love it.

When I worked in a consulting firm I used to go bananas that everyone was so manic about the figures being right in Excel and Powerpoint (quite rightly) but letting totally ungrammatical taglines ruin the presentation. It took me months to work out that French people can read numbers far better than words and never looked at the tagline...

beachcomber - you are quite right about all those things and it's good to share our frustrations. You are not alone etc etc.

Where are you?

AA & Anna - wow, I'm impressed, what a pair of eggheads!

Frenchleave, how do you go about being employed rather than self-employed?
I fear that I might need to get a 'proper' qualification as a translator, and the idea of yet more study puts me right off.
It's striking how many mixed couples are the result of a student's year abroad. I met (French) DH when working as an assistante, and loads of the French-British couples I know met when one partner was on their mandatory year abroad. All that stuff about learning a language better "sur l'oreiller" ...

Beachcomber - your list is very similar to mine! My eldest is 9 and youngest 7 months, and nothing much has changed in the field of childrearing in France in those 9 years except perhaps for attitudes to breastfeeding. When my eldest was born I think French family and friends thought I was a total freak for never giving her bottles.

AA - I was lucky in that I found a job through a friend who approached me when the translation agency she worked for needed another English mother tongue translator. I actually have an MA in translation, but I think I would have got the job without a qualification. It just helps me do a better job.

I think I've struck lucky because my employer is great, pays above average wages and is very family friendly, but other translation jobs I've seen pay poorly.

Apparently there are cliques of alumni from my university in cities there students are sent to because of the year abroad coupling!

frenchleave, AA et al -

it seems to me that there isn't a good organisation in France defending the rights and interests of British women here.

In Paris there is the Association of American Wives of Europeans that is very active but not relevant to British women's needs; there is Message Mother Support Group, which is active but very American-newly arrived expat-very small children focused; and there is a British and Commonwealth Women's Club (name?) which is not very active and seems to be pretty elderly.

Would you like there to be something equivalent to AAWE, with advice, publications etc for British women?

It's very therapeutic to share this sort of stuff with people who understand!

I live in a tiny village in the Drome departement (26) we are about 100km south of Lyon. I think I've found things hard sometimes as I grew up in big towns in the UK and now live in a rural area in France. Our nearest town is quite small and provincial and isn't really very nice, we chose to live in the country rather than live there.

On the good side I agree with what others say about diet, people do generally eat well and we have access to good quality local produce. Can't take the kids to the park (well I can if I'm willing to drive 25km) but can take them to show them the pigs and the chickens at the farm...

The internet has really helped me as I can have contact with likeminded weirdos who breastfeed, use cloth, don't smack, etc!
Also am lucky as DH lived in the UK for a number of years and loved it- he misses many of the things that I miss too.

beachcomber - you sound very isolated and that must be quite hard. Do you have a job?

I suppose we are a bit 'out in the sticks'. I'm not working at the moment (conge parentale) but normaly teach English in an adult learning centre. The job isn't very well paid but it is interesting and not only means that I get to use my language but also most of my collegues are expats so we support each other a lot (mostly Americans and Brits). I'm missing work at the moment but can't really afford to work (crazily) and would rather be with the children for a while as they are very young, 3 years old and 9 months old.

Luckily an English friend from work has recently had a baby so we meet up to moan and have a laugh.

Have to go now as am packing for a long weekend to visit some friends in Lausanne (yes, city, people, shops, exhaust fumes, can't wait!!).

Will definitely come back here, only noticed this board today. I'm quite new to MN and tend to post on the baby related topics.

Have a nice weekend all...

I would like to add to Beachcomber's list:

"Children's TV is utter crap (we got a sattelite dish installed so that we could have Cbeebies)". - So is "adult" tv - i cannot bear TF1 where they just seem to have endless which involve a bunch of people chattering round a table with a few bimbos thrown in to spice things up!
Fortunately here in belgium i get the bbc as part of the tv package, but i think i will have to get a satellite dish when i move to france! Incidentally my french dp cannot bear UK tv (aside from a couple of things such as Dragon's Den or others).....I suppose its a case of what you're used to.

Endless programmes i meant!

bc - lausanne is lovely! You can go out on the lake.

Anna, I don't know if I feel that my rights as a British woman need defending in France. And I did feel a bit when you first mentioned the Association of American Wives of Europeans, as I found the name a bit outdated (I don't define myself as the wife of anyone).

That said, you're right that there's probably a need for better access to information. I think what would be useful would be an informal network for British people, along the model of MN (after all look how this thread has taken off and meandered into side-alleys).

It's good for experiences and knowledge to be shared. Partly because, yes, we do sometimes need to sound off about aspects of life in France, however trivial, to people whom we feel we can relate to better culturally. Partly also, and more seriously, because the differences might be easier to deal with if they were felt to be shared and understood by others, and if newly arriving British women had advance warning that, for instance, hospitals are cr*p at giving BFing mothers support and help (IME, anyway, I wrote out my sorry tale for this thread earlier and then wiped it as it was so long and self-pitying!). Better understanding of and better preparation for life in France would help improve relations between some expat Brits and the French, by reducing the surprise factor and hence the irritation/resentment caused by some differences.

I'm a bit wary of the whole Brits in France network thing, as I feel that sometimes it turns into a form of isolationism, but there is certainly scope for providing information and support to others in our situation. Did you have a plan in mind? (!)

A takeover of the British and Commonwealth Women's Association maybe...

AAWE is very hot on issues like tax, inheritance etc and has done a lot to preserve the rights of American women married to foreigners (not just French men). I think that finance is a big issue - I think all women need to be aware of the financial implications of marriage, divorce and inheritance BEFORE getting hitched - I have seen quite a few women get a big shock here. Also I think that there are issues surrounding education that AAWE addresses for Americans but only partially for British parents with children growing up in France.

I don't define myself as a wife either (I'm not married) but relationships do have financial and legal implications, and women's rights do often still need protecting/fighting for.

AA there are a few forums where there is information and people who can give advice to those who have just arrived or are planning to move to france, living france is quite good but its very general, it would be very good to have something like mumsnet or even our own section of mumsnet its nice to talk to other mums who have the same or similar views and can offer advice and support to each other.

I have struggled with a few aspects of life since moving to france last september and still am so to be able to come here or somewhere similar and to be able to ask for advice from those who have already been there would be so helpful and lessen the feeling of isolation, and make life easier all round

helen - I agree, the websites I look at are too superficial and often concerned with house purchase (which is only one aspect of setting up home here).

For the time being let us share our experiences and see how we get on.

Anna - I hadn't thought of the legal/judicial aspects of things, was just considering the more psychological, adapting-type problems. Maybe a takeover would be a good idea . In the meantime, I agree that it would be good to stay in touch through MN. Maybe a meetup could be arranged in the dim and distant future?
Must rush and get DS from the nounou's...