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Original poster

British parents in France, French parents in GB - what are the best/worst bits about the way the other nationality raises their kids?

159 replies

Othersideofthechannel · 09/03/2007 19:10

This is following on from the snacking debate in Food (sorry, can't make links work) and I do understand that not everyone from the same country chooses the same methods, but there are some cultural tendencies. Which one do you select/reject and why?
Anna8888 are you there?

OP posts:
Original poster
Othersideofthechannel · 13/03/2007 05:32

"whereas in the UK when you get friendly with other mums you would go out for coffee together or arrange to meet up that doesnt happen here except with other english mums."

It's not as easy, people are mostly surprised to be asked and hesitant to take up the offer. I used to assume they didn't want to know me if they failed to take up the offer the first time but when I got more confident and renewed the offer a couple of times, suggesting the dates myself, things took off.

OP posts:
Anna8888 · 13/03/2007 07:16

In Paris, where I am, and the greater Paris area, there is a huge network of Anglophone mother-and-baby groups run by Message Mother Support Group. And there are plenty of bilingual and international schools, so it's not hard to meet other English and international mothers and have a life during the day.

Maybe those of you outside Paris could get in touch with Message (google it) and create a local branch?

My case is different anyway since I was here for years as a single girl before having children and I was at an international school as a child and later went to Insead as well as worked, so I know loads of people. Basically I don't have enough time to see everyone and do everything on offer. Here in Paris there are lots of parks and communal gardens, so you can meet other mothers. You do have to pick and choose, though, because lots of children are with their nounou, not their mother.

aol · 13/03/2007 07:52

I am also here in France.....

Love it and can't imagine ever living in the UK again. I have four children in the school system - three private and one state - and at different levels.

My non (very very non!) academic daughter has really struggled within the educations system here but I don't think she would have got on any better in the UK - and think she would have had less help and outside support. She is about to leave school and go on to do an apprenticeship which will give her training and a qualification at the end of it.

As for meeting other mothers - I am not in Paris but know that networking there is a piece of cake as opposed to the provinces. Where I am I have not found it hard to make friends - the French tend to be more formal in the early friendship stages but once you are in, you are in, so to speak.

aol · 13/03/2007 07:53

'educations system' - tiens! Who is the non-academic one?

Anna8888 · 13/03/2007 08:04

I think that the lack of ante and post-natal facilities in France (and Belgium) is due to to the health system, which is not integrated as in the UK NHS. All health practitioners in France are basically in commercial competition with one another and have no incentive to cooperate and create groups and systems.

I had my daughter in the UK and am very glad I did.

BandofMothers · 13/03/2007 08:23

We're not planning on having any more lo's, unless we win the lottery or something. In which case it wouldn't be a problem.
Sounds like I may have a little trouble making friends then, I'm not shy, but do tend to assume that people will stick with the friends they already have and not bother with me.
But if I make the effort I s think it'll be ok. Can see the language barrier making it hard too. But you get out what you put in.

If I have a year or so , I bet I can find some friends on here before I even go. MUST find out where it is we might be going!!!!

admylin · 13/03/2007 08:24

I can only compare France and Germany as I used to live in france and now have children in Germany. I was so shocked by the way dc are treated in Germany that I found it hard to leave them with other people or groups. If I'd had my dc in France I would have had no problems leaving them even when they were really small because the child care is so good. I would trust a childminder to talk nicely and be gentle and loving to her mindees. That is what I saw in France any way, there is a way of speaking in child-language that is so sweet (even though it sounds abit silly when translated). French kids are allowed to be children wheras in Germany they should be quiet and out of the way.

Anna8888 · 13/03/2007 08:28

And on the student thing - one of the main reasons students return home every weekend with their washing is that student accommodation and student life is a lot less organised in France than in the UK. Student halls of residence can be truly dire, with very small basic rooms and very limited bathroom facilities. Often there is no kitchen at all and you have to eat in the student cafeteria, and there is little in the way of sports and recreational activities, so going home at the weekend for a break and some home comforts is a must for students' sanity.

Anna8888 · 13/03/2007 08:29

bandofmothers - do you speak French? If not, try to learn as much as possible before moving as it will be crucial to your happiness. Life is very boring and frustrating when you don't understand what's going on around you.

AuldAlliance · 13/03/2007 09:03

The going home at the weekend thing also seems to be to be linked to the impersonal nature of French universities.

There isn't a campus social life, so no incentive to stay at the weekend.

And - generalisation coming up - the students in universities here are not as well-off (or not as badly in debt?) as those in the UK. University (as opposed to a grande école, prépa, etc.) is not a first choice for many bacheliers and the conditions are grim, mainly due to underfunding and a refusal on the part of the powers-that-be to accept the consequences of arbitrarily deciding that 80% of school leavers should get the baccalauréat. Students have more academic work IME than British ones, the gulf between lycée and fac is huge, many are struggling to scrape through their exams, the failure rate in first year is horrendous as there is no selection (a dirty word) for entrance to most courses. Many also work part-time to fund their studies, and are just downright tired.

These are my current observations in an Arts/Humanities faculty. It's all a far cry from the alcohol haze, with a few mad essay deadlines, that summed up my undergraduate years. If I were a French student, sitting on the dirty steps of an overflowing lecture hall, straining to hear a lecturer whose microphone hasn't been working for months, then going to a so-called tutorial with 50 people in it where the teacher hasn't a hope in hell of seeing my work or even remembering my name, I'd be off home to my parents at the weekend, too, for a rest and a bit of comfort.

Rant over...

Anna8888 · 13/03/2007 09:12

AA - I quite agree with all you say.

University, unless you go to Assas, seems to be a fairly miserable experience in France. Grande école is much better and offers far more opportunities, if you can hack the two horrible years of prépa first.

TenaLady · 13/03/2007 09:17

Johnny Haliday he is a bit like our Cliff Richard!

TenaLady · 13/03/2007 09:20

B.O.M I think the language thing is a BIG issue.

It is too easy to stick the tv on satellite and get home comforts but is that really what you are there for.

Its the very thing that we get shirty about when we have foreign visitors to our shores. I think if you live there then really make an effort to learn the language (what else is there to do with your time)?

BandofMothers · 13/03/2007 09:31

No Tenalady, I am really up for learning the language. Did GCSE French, 12 yrs ago but will definately be learning as much as poss b4 going. Don't want to sit at home with uk tv, but do want to be able to watch uk tv when I turn it on in evenings, IYSWIM.

frenchleave · 13/03/2007 09:35

Gosh yes, I'd rather my children chose to go to UK universities (though God knows how much that will cost by then!) than waste four years doing a course that leads to an employment dead end. Our hall of residence was a graveyard at weekends and there was nothing to do, it was grim, we actually looked forward to Mondays when our French friends came back.

Anna - I envy your access to a daytime social life!

IME, British families either love the French education system or hate it. Those that come after having had a bad experience in the UK tend to love it for its rigour, which is precisely what others object to

And I add my voice to the language issue - you have to be able to speak it if you want to make a go of living and working here.

BandofMothers · 13/03/2007 09:37

I'm going to try. Just wonder how it will be if I'm not very good.

Anna8888 · 13/03/2007 09:46

bandofmothers - if you WANT to learn you can. Never be frightened of just having a go.

BandofMothers · 13/03/2007 09:49

I really want to learn, I remember loads from school, but not really useful everyday stuff, unless I want to know the time, or the way to the library!!!
Wont stop me worrying about being isolated tho.

French people outside a classroom speak SO fast I probably wont understand a word.

helenhismadwife · 13/03/2007 12:29

Band my french was awful when we moved here I would stand there looking very stupid and feeling really awful if someone spoke to me, I was terrified

my french is still not good but I have found that the french are generally lovely when you try and will help you as much as they can, I used to panic when they didnt understand me the first time, now I repeat myself because I have found they sometimes need to tune in to my awful french accent.

The antenatal, postnatal and care during labour is very different and a bit like the uk was 20 years ago, having worked with a french doctor in the uk she told me that doctors, midwives and dentist all train together in the first year, those that dont make the grade for doctors get the choice of being either and midwife or dentist which sort of explains why it is so medicalised, the post natal care in hospital is excellent but there is nothing when you leave hospital.

socially we live in a small town population 2500 approximately it is lovely, its hard to get used to the lack of parks and places to take toddlers. I think from what a french friend has told us the french dont actually socialise much at home, that is seen as a family place they dont often invite friends round so as otherside says they are probably suprised to be asked for coffee etc.

it would be good to chat to other mums in france so if anyone wants to mail me my address is [email protected] I live not far from Poitiers

TenaLady · 13/03/2007 13:16

Where are you all in France, (if posting from France)

Ive just sold a house in the Languedoc region and soon to be in the Aquitaine (mostly there in school hols)

Anna8888 · 13/03/2007 13:30

Paris. Looking to buy a weekend house, but it won't be far from Paris.

AuldAlliance · 13/03/2007 13:38

Provence

ggglimpopo · 13/03/2007 13:41

Hello AuldAlliance

frenchleave · 13/03/2007 13:44

Brittany here.

Rhubarb · 13/03/2007 13:49

I used to live near Bordeaux. I found in general that France is a very family friendly place and that when you accept an invitation, it naturally includes the children.

They take food seriously and dd had some wonderful school dinners!

The school put on fantastic plays and 'spectaculars', there was no fuss about younger children spoiling it as most of these were outdoor events and whole families turned up, refreshments available and so on. It was great!

I found the schools to be very good, dd only went to the maternelle but they never put any pressure on her, she enjoyed going and boys and girls mixed freely, went out on little excursions and so on, I was very happy with the set up.

Children were brought up to be polite, they would give the 'bisous' or shake hands.

Doctors were awful. They would give out anti-biotics if you'd broken your leg! Not very patient with children either.

Lack of babysitters if you wanted a bit of adult time. When you did get babysitters they were very expensive.

Can I just ask if there are any French families living in Cumbria at all?