Schenk ein den Wein - as autumn comes to Germany and Austria

[LinzerTorte]

Der Nebel steigt, es fällt das Laub;
schenk ein den Wein, den holden!
Wir wollen uns den grauen Tag
vergolden, ja vergolden!

A thread for all those living in Germany and Austria, and anyone else who would like to chat.

Always good to have an excuse to open some , and this poem seemed quite appropriate!

That's great news Later, so glad to hear you're feeling better. FWIW I really struggled with bfing DD1 for a month or more and was just waiting for the paediatrician to tell me I should give up as DD1 wasn't thriving (but she was); I'm so glad I persevered though, as it was worth it when it all (finally!) fell into place. The bottle in the evenings is a good idea, too; I introduced a bottle at about 6 weeks to give me a bit more flexibility (and more sleep!) but probably didn't give it regularly enough and after a break of a few weeks, DD1 refused the bottle.

5more The pool sounds really good. Both pools in our town (indoor and outdoor) are very expensive, although we do get free entry once a year (!) to the indoor pool with our Niederösterreich-Card. There are cheaper pools further afield, but it's obviously a bit more of an effort to get to them.

Well, I survived the drive to the airport and back, although got very confused when the sat nav directed me to a different Parkhaus than I was expecting (I must have entered the wrong one). Am feeling much less nervous about the drive to the airport tomorrow, at any rate. Our visitors have escaped to Vienna today, where they're no doubt enjoying the peace and quiet and being able to talk without interruptions. DD2 has taken a real shine to my friend and keeps complaining if I talk to her for too long. We had a lovely day out yesterday, when we took a cable car up into the mountains and went for a walk at the top, and finished off the day with a meal at a Greek restaurant (where I we drank far too much ouzo, metaxa and wine).

We're having a quiet day at home today (although the DC are being particularly quarrelsome so it's not all that quiet) and helping DD1 to prepare her poster and talk about London for Thursday. Can hear some more shouting now so had better go and investigate!

Hope the quarrelling was nothing too serious, Linzer, and that you got to enjoy your quiet day at home.

My brother has just emailed me asking what I want him to bring me from the UK when he comes over for Christmas - I think I need to trim my list a little - he only has one suitcase :)

Well they didn't actually kill/maim each other Later, so it can't have been too serious! Can't remember what they were quarrelling about now though.

So what's on your list for your brother to bring over? I went to Lidl today and bought a couple of trays of baked beans (they're slightly cheaper than in Billa/Merkur), some shortbread (not something I normally miss, I must admit) and Cheddar for DH - 11 blocks in fact, so that should keep us going for a while.

The DC were off school today for St Leopold (patron saint of working parents - not), so we went into Vienna and met up with coco and her DS, which was lovely. Well, apart from the constant interruptions from my three. DD2, who is never cold, was cold in the cafe despite having her thick winter coat on, while DS was at turns bored, had a stomach ache, cold and constantly needed accompanying to the toilet (as did DD2). I think I might leave them at home next time (although they finally managed to amuse themselves when they discovered the condiments counter and built a long pipe out of straws).

Hi there! I hope you don't mind me popping in fora visit - reading another thread I was just interested in your experiences, but please tell me if you think this is not the place. It said on another thread that Germany is so much more child friendly than the uk, and I was wondering what you thought. I am german and have lived in the uk for thirteen years, but spend a lot of time in Germany, and in many ways I find britain more child friendly. Examples-
more places to eat out as a family
Museums more interactive and welcoming to children
Lots of child-oriented places for days out
More helpfulness in shops or at airports - in Britain many a time I have been allowed to jump the queue at safety checks with my children, in Germany nobody cares
This is just off the top of my head, interested in your thoughts/experiences

Hi emkana, I think I know the thread you mean - I wrote on it that I found where we are now in Austria is far more family friendly than London (where the OP lived and where we used to live). I wouldn't go so far as to say that Austria is more child-friendly than the UK as a whole, although we can certainly afford a better quality of life here.

There are certain aspects of life in the UK that I find more child-friendly, e.g. family-friendly restaurants (although the "normal" restaurants where we eat almost always have a not very healthy children's menu), more parent-and-child parking spaces, which are few and far between here (could have done with one when I was strapping DS in once and the wind blew the car door into the next car, costing me ?250).

OTOH people here are generally very helpful, there's lots to do with the children (there are very good child-friendly museums in Vienna; we can go out cycling, walking or to one of the many outdoor pools in the summer and skiing or ice skating in the winter), child benefit is far more generous (and increases with the number of children you have and the older they get, not to mention the fact that you can get it for "children" up to the age of 24 if they're still studying), children have more freedom and independence (my 7 and 9 year olds walk to school on their own), the public transport we use is generally very child-/pushchair-friendly (it's easy to get on and off our local trains with a pushchair and lots of space for them at both ends of every carriage; the conductor gives children a special Kinderfahrschein; there are lifts at most U-Bahn/train stations in Vienna).

Those are my experiences anyway, although it's quite hard to generalise as so much depends on where you are in the UK/Germany/Austria. Also not sure how much of what I wrote applies to Germany too (my only experiences with children there were when I was an au pair in Berlin 20 years ago; I used to struggle with the buggy on public transport there, although I doubt Vienna was much better a few decades ago!).

hello all germany and austria parents.... are you all army or connected to army.navy airforce etc. I live in wiltshire but quite envy you people over in Deutchland. Do you have any snow yet?? Are you near ski areas?
LimzerTorte can you translate your poem please?

Hi nametapes. AFAIK no one on the thread is connected to the army, etc; I think most of us are married to Germans/Austrians. No snow here yet, but it's fairly cold (it's been below freezing when I've done the school run the last couple of mornings).

Here's a translation of the poem in my OP, the first verse of Oktoberlied (October song) by Theodor Storm (I can't claim any credit for the translation, which is by Walter A. Aue):

The rising fog, the falling leaves:
to wine we are beholden!
The greyish day no longer grieves:
it's golden, yes, it's golden!

Not that we are beholden to wine on this thread, of course. (Although I did mention to the friends who were visiting at the weekend that the price of decent wine is one thing that would put me off moving back to the UK.)

Agree Linzer, child friendly or not - it's definately parent friendly here when you see the price of wine in UK!

It's freezing here, booked the car in to get our Winterreifen put on tomorrow. Is anyone else expecting a really bad winter again? I keep reading reports that it's going to be a bad one.

We've got another sick gerbil here, dd's feeding it baby brei with a syringe and we've been to the vet and have anti biotics but I fear the great mouse hole in the sky is calling. Dd says she won't be able to go to school if it dies and yesterday she wouldn't go to hockey training.

I was wondering if any of you know which chocolates or sweets from Germany aren't available in UK? I usually send Christmas presents to my nieces but have decided money is what they would rather have so want to get some chocolates or sweets to send with the money. Do they have Ritter Sport in UK? Any other ideas?

Yes, you can get Ritter Sport in the UK - I remember getting through bars of the stuff when I was writing essays at university. You might not be able to get such a wide selection, though. I've taken back Lindtkugeln (but have seen those in Britain too), Mozartkugeln (although they're probably more of an Austrian thing) and Merci (not very exciting, I know). My mum also really likes the Christmas (i.e. cinnamon etc) flavoured bars of chocolate you can get and always says "Ooh, mit Zimt!" whenever she opens them (about the only words of German she knows, I think).

Haven't heard anything about this being a particularly bad winter; we changed our tyres a few weeks ago, anyway, so at least we're prepared for it now. Am just hoping it doesn't snow when we fly back to the UK for Christmas.

Right, must get back to the washing/ironing (is it any wonder I'm spending so long on MN this morning?).

Mozartkugel are a good idea for my mum. I think I might go and get some of those sweets with Waldmeister flavour as that's one flavour I'm sure they don't have in UK but still want to find some chocolate.

Have fun with the ironing. I've just got through our 3 suitcases worth of washing and now trying to keep on top of the normal day to day stuff. Do your family members also put towels in the wash after one quick shower? Can't keep up here.

I always thought Germany seemed a lot more child-friendly thany the UK, but not having had a child in the UK and DS being so tiny now, that opinion was based on no experience whatsoever! (What a helpful addition to the discussion that was :) )

I quite often send Mozart chocolate to the UK as presents too - the marzipan & pistachio one is really tasty!

DS slept from 11.30pm (ish, it may have been midnight) until 5.45 this morning, woke for a feed then slept again until 9.30am!! I don't want to get too excited as he was up for a feed at 2.45 the night before, but we're down to one nighttime feed and the flat is now tidy, washing on, dishwasher on, bins emptied and most importantly breakfast eaten and HOT tea drunk. I feel like a domestic goddess :D He will probably feed once an hour today to make up for it...

W're off to the in-laws this weekend for DH's niece's birthday party & to put the winter tyres on. It's been quite frosty here the past few mornings, winter is on its way!

Later, sounds good that there might be a routine setting in! Hope so, there's nothing like a few good hours sleep to help you getthrough the day. Honestly, the lack ofsleep was one of the worst things to get over after I had ds!

Mozart cholcolates sound good - and I think my nieces like marzipan too. Has anyone ever seen those marzipan kartoffeln in UK that they sell here? My 2dc love them, I think they're coated in cocoa powder.

Ah I can't complain too much - he really is a pflegeleichtes Baby in comparison to some of the stories I've heard. The lack of sleep is a killer though. Fingers crossed for the routine! Next step is to get him sleeping somewhere other than on me during the day.

I've never seen those marzipan eggs in the UK, they sound like a good bet. I always have to take marzipan hot chocolate over for my brother. In fact, he likes it so much I have to post him a few packs every couple of months. It's in a black box, I think the brand is Niederegger and it's fairly pricey compared to normal hot chocolate - ?4.40 for 10 sachets. Maybe worth a look.

I've asked my brother to bring a couple of Christmas puddings, a jar of mincemeat, a pack of stuffing mix and most importantly cheese & onion crisps & jammy wagon wheels. Mmmmmmm.

Apparently they have already had snow in Scotland but I haven't heard anything about this winter being particularly bad. I think we already had some snow this time last year.

Hi nametapes - sorry, I completely missed your post before!

admylin Dsis loves me to bring her Yogurette, which I assume aren't available in the UK. The Brombeer ones are particularly good, but they may have been a summer special. Otherwise we also go with Mozartkugeln (DD calls them "Daddy's balls" as DH loves them ).

emkana and Linzer funnily enough I've always considered eating out with dc to be easier here than in the UK. I take your point that there are fewer "family" restaurants, but we eat out with DD frequently and don't worry about where to go, since everywhere seems to welcome kids. In fact it's often easier to find something on the menu for her than for me (non-meat-eater)! I also feel much less of a need to apologise for having a 2yo in tow here, since so many people (other diners) come over to pat her head and say "Na, Schnecke" or "Mäuseli"!

Hi, nametapes. No snow here yet (central Germany), but cold enough for it. We changed our tyres yesterday, just need to throw the shovel back in the boot and I'll feel prepared. I hope there won't be as much snow this year as last, as they threatened to make our road a no-parking zone last time (there is nowhere else to park ).

Later glad to hear the bf problems are easing. I had various phases of it being pretty painful at the beginning, although never developed mastitis fortunately, then it settled down and became super easy. Hope you reach that point soon .

silken I have exactly the same problem - at the Greek restaurant we went to at the weekend, the DC had a choice of four or five children's meals (plus could have eaten smaller versions of anything on the menu, I suppose) whereas I had to have a warme Vorspeise as there wasn't a single vegetarian main course. It was plenty for me, particularly as I'd had a cold starter too, but it would have been nice to have had a bit more choice. Very often the only vegetarian option seems to be Eierschwammerl, which I'm not too keen on but will eat if there's nothing else.

Later I'm very impressed with you being able to drink hot tea - that took me months, if not years! One night-time waking would have felt like bliss to me when DD1 was that age, but of course it all depends on what you're used to; having to get up just once every night now would probably leave me feeling zombie-like!

admylin It's only really DH's towels that need washing after a shower (I don't know how he gets them so wet), but I don't mind washing towels so much as they're easy to wash and dry. It's the small things/clothes that need ironing that are the most time-consuming; DH's shirts have been piling up as I just haven't had time to iron them. He'll iron them himself if I don't have time during the day, but I've just realised that neither of us will have time this evening as we're out at the Elterninformationabend at school.

Which reminds me - we have a 13 year old babysitter coming to look after the DC; DH said it would be fine to say du to her, but at what age do you switch from du to Sie? The only teenagers I know (apart from DH's niece) are our 14 and 16 year old neighbours, but as we say du to their parents I don't have to think about whether to say du or Sie to them.

Linzer that's a hard one, isn't it? I guess I would say "Sie" to the Praktikantinnen at the kiga, although they are often very young, but would say "du" to anyone I knew to still be at school. As a music teacher, though, I would probably use du for any student still in education, but use Sie for adult students.

admylin I don't wash towels quite that often! I've always wondered when things like Flylady suggest using the discarded towels to wipe the bathroom floor every day. It might be my lower-middle-class upbringing, but you've just washed, haven't you? So the towel is wet, but not dirty?
I was flummoxed by the hand towel thing here as well. At MIL's you are expected to know that, as a guest, you should take a fresh facecloth towel from the pile under the tissue box to dry your hands on. (I'd been looking in vain for a communal guest hand towel in their bathroom for about three years before this was explained to me ). Please tell me I'm not just a skanky northerner!!!

That's a good question linzer. Our new neighbours have a 15 or 16 year old ds who has taken parcels in for me a couple of times. He's bigger than me so I just say sie to him! Probably du would have been OK. Have your dc met the babysitter before?

It's freezing here - or is it me maybe? I find this flat always very cold unless the heating is turned up full. Sometimes I wish we were in our tiny 2 room flat, it was so warm and cosy!

Silken I also have trouble eating out as the vegetarian options are very limited. I usually end up with salad. Nice to hear that the people are so friendly around there. When my 2 were small I felt that my dc missed out on the kind comments and baby talk outside but we lived in a university town in the south of Germany and it wasn't really child friendly, infact students would tut or move tables if we sat with dc in a cafe. The town had a special cafe where you could go with dc and some Italian places were nice but otherwise not suitable. All that could have changed though in the last 10 to 12 years.

Never heard of wiping the floor with a towel! Hand towels I'd guess are different in every house. If we have guests I put a fresh towel in the gästeklo and if overnight I give them towels anyway. I'd rather they didn't help themselves as things tend to fall out of the bathroom cupboard when you open it...!
My main prolem s getting stuff dried in this weather. I dream of having a dryer but always put it off. One day we'll be settled and I can start getting gadgets but before then any gadget is just another thing to have to move one day!

Oh Silken I think I've been doing it wrong! MIL has a pile of facecloths in the guest bathroom & I never know what to do so I just use the one on the radiator thinking that was a communal one. She has never said anything...

I wash towels once a week (ish). Once a day sounds far too much like hard work.

Linzer That is a hard one. I think I would say Du but then I'm never sure.

As predicted, DS is feeding hourly this morning/afternoon. In a moment of preparedness this morning I emptied a tin of soup into a bowl & put it in the microwave ready so I can blast it quickly between feeds. I'm missing all the lovely sandwiches my mum made me while she was here!

Right, I shall go for du then. I usually trust DH's advice but they sometimes seem to do things differently where he's from. I've also seen FIL saying DH to a teenager (anywhere from 16 to 20, hard to tell really) and getting a look (she had to check that he really was talking to her) - I was also quite surprised that he said du. The babysitter is the older sister of one of DS's KiGa friends and DS said he knows her as she sometimes picks her little sister up, but the DDs haven't met her. She's one of seven, so has a lot of experience with children anyway!

I'm another one who only washes towels about once a week, although I did wonder about putting DH's towel in the dryer today as it was so wet (just wasn't sure about putting it in with clean washing though, and it seemed very environmentally unfriendly to put it in on its own). I also have communal guest towels in the bathroom and downstairs toilet and give overnight guests their own hand and bath towels. (My ILs do have a guest towel, but confuse me by referring to bath towels as Handtücher - as does DH.) I couldn't find our spare double duvet when our friends were visiting at the weekend so had to give them two single duvets (very Austrian) but rather embarrassingly, we only had one single guest duvet cover and pillowcase so the other one had to have one of the children's (I decided that the kleiner Prinz set was the least embarrassing option).

Yes, it's freezing here too - although the heating automatically turns itself up by a couple of degrees at lunchtime so it's better now than it was. It gets very cold up on the top floor as it's right underneath the roof.

Evening! not getting any time this week to properly catch up on this thread and always feel like a wee quick post is a bit rude so thought i'd catch up while the dc are otherwise occupied.

Freezing cold here too - organised to meet a friend and her dc at the spielplatz but had to leave the second the sun went behind the forest - was so, so cold without the bit of sun.

I am another who only washes towels once a week - how dirty are they really??. I also didnt understand the hand towels in the bathroom thing the first time I went to a friends house who does it. I just folded it up and put it back before realising there was a bin with others in it. Seems like a bit much effort - again how dirty are hands once you've washed them??

linzer - I'd also use du to a 13 year old. I had always imagined that it was du until they left school if you didnt know them. Hope you get all the info you need from the elternabend. Is this at the gymnasium?

later - great news that the feeding is going better. and the sleeping. Life always seems better after a bit of sleep.

admylin - hows the gerbil now? will keep my fingers crossed that it improves. We've oly been here for 2 winters and both were bad at times so I'm just assuming this one will be the same. Have had our winterreifen on for a couple of weeks now although not needed them yet. Its been below zero the last few mornings but also really dry so no ice yet.

So today was a random school holiday here - really struggled to motivate the dc to get going this morning but sometimes think thats ok once in a while. But they played out all afternoon to make up for it. Will be glad to send them back to school tomorrow and let the teacher motivate them.

DS2 has his U9 tomorrow - cant believe I'm going through all this school starting stuff again after doing it the last 2 years with ds1 (he was a kann kind the first year and didnt go to school but still had to have all the assessments). ds2 is definitely bright enough to cope with the work but I'm really cant imagine he's got the concentration and listening skills to cope with school. He'll be one fo the youngest (end of August birthday) and he's a proper boy. Will have to see what they say. Hes got his U9 tomo then the Gesundheitsamt assessment in a few weeks so we'll see.

Better go and make some dinner now - hope I can get them early to bed - needing a bit of peace after a long day.

Hello Canella - we had the random BH here today too - what on earth is Buß und Bett Tag - I keep meaning to look it up. Shops were open so kept half doubting it was a real day off school! I kept DS1 off too even though KiGa was open as he felt it was unfair, and he had a point. We went to get some bits DD needed for school and then in the afternoon dd had a different friend around to the ones she usually plays with - school has shifted friendships groups from KiGa a bit I think. We invited a friend for DS but he couldn't come and DS was a bit disappointed and being a bit wild to cover it I think...

Hope your DS2's U9 goes well - will be interested to hear what they say, as he sounds like my DS1, though he is only 4 now we have to decide whether to put him in the Vorschule group next year - he is 20th Sept birthday so right at the end of the school year! DD is 19th Sept but sending her was definitely the right decision, for now at least, even though for this year she is the youngest child in the entire school by an entire 2 months! She has done loads of reading today totally off her own back, random stuff like the instruction lines on colouring and activity pages, both in English and German, plus I got the Oxford Reading Tree Level 4 books a while ago and she sounded her way laboriously through a couple then left them - today she picked them up and read me 2 which she hadn't looked at before with relative ease - have ordered the next level :) She announced yesterday that her teacher has made her "one of the readers" - so one of the ones who reads out little poems and bits of text to the class, and this has really motivated her. It's funny, there is almost no "differentiation" of work as a UK parent would see it, but these little signs from the teacher that she knows who can do what seem to actually work pretty well to motivate - at this stage anyway!! Can't make up my mind about the local school system but today I feel it works ok, although it helps she was reading a bit before she started!

Later I was hoping to make the pool a regular Sat afternoon thing, to build DD's swimming skills back up so we know whether she needs to do a course in spring (school have informed us the children should be able to swim 50 meters by the 2nd class for an inter school event the 2nd class are involved in, but don't offer lessons...). However the baby has come down with a cold involving a world class volume of snot, so I guess I probably won't be taking them this Sat, I'd love DH to take them but it is incredibly unlikely he'd go for it, although he is happy to take them swimming on holiday that is the only situation he has ever done that in.

So glad to hear you are getting sleep - one night feed sounds like bliss, although a while ago H was doing a 6 hour stretch most nights, he hasn't done in about 6 weeks and is alternating between hourly waking fighting my attempts to space the feeds a bit, with at best 3 wakings between me going to bed and 5am, which he has firmly decided is get up time. I hope it's just a phase, as there is a lot of development going on, on all fronts, at 6 months old. He is very lovely now, I love this age - he sits securely, he can clap and does at every opportunity, lifts his arms to be picked up, he babbles away convinced he is communicating, and rolls and belly squirms all over, getting hold of things he shouldn't... and loves people and laughs and bounces in r if anyone talks to him. I do feel a little like the living dead due to the sleep deprivation though...

Linzer well done on the airport drive, hope you had fun with your friends.

Hello nametapes and Emkana - my post is getting much too epic and I must stop even though I haven't namechecked everyone, sorry! I think Germany (Bavaria) is child friendly because it is far more possible and normal to live on one income and have a stay at home parent here than in Surrey, where I had my first child - the hospital where I had her was better too! It depends what you want though, the area where we live would be difficult for 2 working parents, though I know people who do it, they are few and far between. I actually like the fact half day school or KiGa is normal and children have a lot of time to play and can be outdoors, and can be much more independent than they would be in the uk, and simply call for and play with friends rather than being herded between full day school, after school clubs and still more late afternoon/ evening activities every day. Out and about as long as children are relatively well behaved and the parent has consideration for others without children and reminds children to lower voices/ not run about if inappropriate I find they get pleasant reactions and comments and people are tolerant and even indulgent, in restaurants and most places tbh. I don't know if this is as much the case in cities as we live in the country.

Oops sorry really stopping now, I'm sorry I cba to edit but I will make myself and my verbal diarrhoea scarce!

Wow 5more - your dd sounds like a really bright wee thing for having just turned 6. It will make the fact that she's the youngest in the class easier if she's managing so well. My dc1 was like that about reading. I think ds2 is also that way but ds1 is definitely his father's son - has absolutely no lust for reading even tho he can read everything he's given at school.

Only know today translates as "day of prayer & repentance" but have no idea why its a school holiday but nowhere else. Just asked dh and he's no idea either. Might go and google it.

Had a quick google - its a protestant day of prayer and repentance that was a public holiday until 1994 where they scrapped it to increase working days. its still a holiday tho in Sachsen und a school holiday in Bayern. No idea why! But had a wee laugh at how you wrote it 5more - thats how I said it the first time I heard it but its Buß und Bettag. Nothing to do with beds! But all to do with confusing mums!