Feeling anxious about DCs starting French school...

[slinkyboo]

Just wanted some words of wosdom and hand-holding, really! We've been in France a few months but DC have been at bilingual school. In Sept they are due to start at a French school. The school is very good and everyone praises it, and it is well used to expats' children as there are so many in this area.
BUT I am feeling more and more anxious about it. DCs are 6 and 4 and I cannot stop imagining theor first day and just HOW they will cope, and how lost they might feel. They understand some very basic French and I am trying to get them to watch French TV etc but my stomach wrenches when I think about leaving them there. How many days/weeks of potential tears and upset will there be???
Tell me to pull myself together...I know, I know. And no I am ansolutely not showing any of my fears to them and nor will I!

I was wondering how it had gone this morning! that all sounds sensible and I think you sometimes do have to go with your gut instinct. Hope you can manage to sort out your work etc somehow.

It sounds a good idea to focus on getting him used to the school etc first without having to face the canteen if it is too much for him at the moment. Most of the French parents I was friendly with used to take their children home for lunch whenever they could, and wished they could do it more. And my (French) SIL, who is a teacher herself, specifically mentioned the noise etc as a reason for doing this.

Messydrawers my situation is different to yours as DH is French (and our children are now taught in English anyway!) but my experience is that my children make a very definite distinction as to what language people speak. I couldn't talk to them in French anyway, despite being very fluent, because it feels totally unnatural - but an English-speaking friend recently tried to talk to the 4yo in French and he wasn't having any of it as he associates her with English. So I really don't think you should worry or even feel frustrated - it sounds very natural to me and I'm sure they'll be fine with the French through school etc.

DS1 has just started CP, so I have been through this, though some circumstances a a bit different.

Canteens are really noisy places, as they are usually overcrowded, in rooms not designed for the purpose and the staff are recruited by the mairie. Childcare and psychology skills are not the main criteria in recruiting them, in fact no skills of any kind enter into it, IM(cynical)O. They yell at the kids to be quiet because the noise is unbearable, but their yelling doesn't help and stresses the kids, obv.

In PS, I hadn't planned on DS1 eating in the canteen, he was meant to go to his assistante maternelle for lunch and the afternoon, as I couldn't envisage such a long day for a 5yr old. That fell though when she became ill, but by then I was almost on ML and brought DS1 home for lunch when I could.

In MS, DS1's teacher took me to one side after the 1st day and suggested that, if I couldn't take him home myself, I might try and organise a system with another mum. We did that for a while: I had her son for lunch one Mon, she took DS1 the next. I realise this isn't an option if he knows no one, although actually one mum did put a notice on the classroom door last year saying her daughter was in morning and afternoon garderie and the canteen, and could anyone help them out by taking her home with them every now and again because she wasn't handling the exhaustion well. Maybe worth a try if you can't get time off work?

FWIW lots and lots of people here seem to wangle it so the get their kids home from school. They seem to fall into 2 distinct socio-professional categories, et either end of the spectrum, with the middle-class professionals being the ones whose kids can't do this.

I am lucky enough to do a job where I work at home one or two days a week, and I'll continue to have DS1 home for lunch once a wk as and when I can. I do think he is less aggressive and crotchety on the days when he's not eaten at school.

He never mentions not wanting to eat there. I am the one who says I'll get him for lunch on such a day, and he always looks pleased (even when it means missing choc. mousse).

There is no feeling as awful as going off to work knowing your child is miserable at school, so I agree that if you can find a solution, it'd be best all round.

Sorry, that was a v long post with little real point to it!

AA - I think the point we are both making (having had quite similar experiences - you have given much more detail than me, but I went through quite similar) is that you really don't need to feel guilty if you take your DC home for lunch, as if you or your DC are failing at something. It is normal, desirable even, for French DC in primary not systematically to eat at the canteen.

I agree about not worrying about the canteen as a part of their integration.

I have friends whose DC started in PS not speaking any French at all, they handled it fine, after all some French kids hardly speak at that age. Now they are pretty fluent (but it came in GS).

FWIW my two DS (bilingual - French father) have always gone "home" (to the childminder's) for lunch and still do - they don't want to go there at all and I feel they need the break.

Our school are not keen on the PS going to the canteen.

I hope you can work something out - as a pp said - maybe with a neighbour or classmate to share the lunches?

There is so much good advice and wisdom on here...I have read great chunks out to DH and it has helped enormously - thank you, thank you to everyone.
When we picked up DS his teacher said he'd been tearful off and on, and tearful in the canteen but not as dreadfully as last week. DS was asking if he had to go back 'tomorrow' and when I said no, he was so relieved! We have decided to not send him to canteen anymore (sorry if I'm repeating myself from earlier) and to let him get used to the huge change of starting French school, without throwing another factor (canteen) at him. He will get downtime every lunchtime. He is a sensitive little boy who does not adapt well to change (he likes things just so) and is happier when he knows exactly what is happening each day. It is just easier to say 'mummy picks you up for lunch'. This is the boy who was distraught once at Disneyland when we got too close to a very loud Dixie band!
I have sort of solved the Friday problem with my work but Monday is still a problem...I can pick him up at 12 but I start work at 1300 so need something in place to return him to school at 1320. Such an annoying thing...just a tiny chunk of time but so difficult. I will definitely try asking around the parents ( maybe put a note up on the board?) and also DS's teacher.
Thankfully DD seems to be coping well, although the language barrier is hard. She says the work is 'easy peasy' which is good as hopefully she can concentrate on learning French!
I felt so rotten and upset this morning. After leaving DS crying I sat in the car and sobbed I felt horribly guilty and confused. Things are still not 'perfect' but I'm glad we have made a decision about the canteen, full stop. I'm doing my best to make things as good as possible after thrusting my DCs into a daunting new place and all your replies and words of encouragement have really, really helped. Again I'm sorry not to thank individuals but on iPhone I can't flip back to see all the names...

It is often difficult to leave your dcs in a situation that upsets them even if you know you have no choice and have to persevere. I felt this with mine (all quite sensitive) and was surrounded by people saying "oh they'll get used to it in no time" and "they'll be fluent in a few months" because apparently children adapt really quickly. I didn't find this to be the case with mine though ds2 adapted more quickly than the others. And it took a lot longer than a couple of months to be really fluent. A good few years and even then there is a lack of vocabulary with the lack of input in French the Francophone children get from their parents. Again this depends on the child but in the end I just had to say to myself "these are my children, I know them better than anyone else so I'm going to decide what's best for them (and hope it's right!)".

I agree about the fluency thing. Yes, children pick up languages more easily than adults, but it is not always in a few months.

My Dd, with a French Dad and having lived in France since birth, started PS speaking minimal French, although she did understand most if not all. Everyone said, oh, just wait until she gets into PS, she'll be fluent by Christmas, you won't be ablento stop hernspeaking French, she'll be speaking French to you and it wilk be the English you will have to worry about.

Well, no, that just did not happen. She got used to PS and thrived intellectually, got an excellent school report atbthe end of the year, but her spoken French remained massively, massively behind her spoken English.

It was really in the middle of MS that we saw a marked improvement, but still, her English was streets ahead.

She is now in GS and she does speak very good French and can more than hold her own. But her "go to" language remains English. In an emergency, she speaks English. When she wakes up in the middle of the night with a nightmare, it's English she uses to call oit to us. When she's telling a long, complicated tale, she'll always use English.

So, the acquisition of language is not the same for all children. Some DC pick up additional languages via immersion very quickly, but others are more tied to their first language.

All that to say that I hope your DC fit in well and do pick up French quickly, but don't be surprised if they are not fluent by Christmas.

Good luck.

Oh, i have just seen that jamaisjedors said the aame thing as me but much more succinctly :)

Just read this with disinterested interest iyswim, as my DCs are post-primary. They did however attend schools in uk, oz and china and lunchtime was definitely the most intense settling in experience.

DD1 remembers sobbing at lunch on her first ever day at school, at primary in England 'because it was so different from home and so noisy'.

It sounds like you've made a good call bringing ds home for lunch.

My dcs sound just like your dd Greythorne.

Yes! Always get driven mad by the comments of "of course, it's so easy for kids!" and "they will be fluent by Christmas". Yes, sometimes, but not always and no, it's not automatic and not easy. (DD is now bilingual by CP, DS is getting there at the start of moyenne section. Still would say that English is the first language for both of them!)

Thank goodness I'm not the only one. My dcs are 22, 20 and 12, born in Belgium and still English is their first language.

Longtime - "And it took a lot longer than a couple of months to be really fluent. A good few years and even then there is a lack of vocabulary with the lack of input in French the Francophone children get from their parents."

You are right to draw attention to the issue of vocabulary. We are a bilingual family, but DD's French domestic vocabulary is much less broad than that of her Francophone friends and we are working to redress this. At the moment we are working very systematically through the "Martine" books, ensuring she knows all the vocabulary - the Martine books are great because each one is on a theme (a child-related activity) and so you can check your child has vocabulary for particular activities eg learning to swim, learning to ride, taking a plane etc

I love Martine! And so many books for various ages. Some very 'old fashioned' illustrations of the children, though!

I'm currently working on my letter to resign from my lunchtime work. I want to be freely available for the DCs, particularly DS, at lunchtimes. Both of them spent most of the morning at school crying (first time for DD as she's been ok so far...think DS set her off as he was upset in car on way to school). But we had a nice lunch altogether and DD was much more cheerful when I took them back. DS very quiet but not crying at that point. He has developed a bad cough which can't be helping...
I agree that the speed at which children learn a second language is hugely exaggerated, with some exceptions. I don't know anyone whose DCs were 'fluent by Christmas'. Took a lot, lot longer!

Reading is definitely the way to go Bonsoir. Unfortunately, ds1, once he'd learnt how to read in English refused to read in French unless it was for school. Didn't help his vocab at all. We ended up putting him in the British School here when he was 16 to do the IB.

We try very hard to ensure that DD's reading in English and French are more or less neck and neck, and to alternate enough so that over the week she reads 5/6 books in French and 5/6 books in English (for pleasure, in addition to school). It's sadly very easy for one language to become the favoured reading language.

My nieces went straight to French school. They're doing great. Been very good for their language and making local friends. Problems included that they didn't like the food . DSIL has also hired a lady to help the eldest with homework.

Those Martine books are good, but kind of ironic-kitsch without even realising
DS1 would read only "tom tom & nana" in French and the Beano in English left to his own devices. I figure he's reading lots of French stories at school so we try and encourage only English reading at home. Much as I'm thrilled he has had the opportunity to become bilingual I do view English as a more important language than French long term, and would do whatever I could to continue his written English and reading ability. He is just about (tomorrow)to take some year 4 sats papers to see just how he measures up. I actually think it's important when they're younger to get as much "basic" English in there, as once they get to college there's so much other work I'm pretty sure there will be little time or inclination for extra English too, although I know it's not a view most people share...

I know the Martine books are über controversial (bourgeois brainwashing etc) these days but they fulfil our current purposes (and DD loves them!).

I was on here a few months ago worrying about DS as he was in PS and far from fluent at Christmas. Someone up thread mentioned the centre de loisir summer camp and it triggered the click for him. I think the more relaxed atmosphere really helped him start to chat with the other kids and the progress was wonderful.

He has always loved cantine but I think the fact our school is quite small (100 kids) and they buddied the little ones up and a very sweet little girl took him under her wing for the year. Just as well as we have no alternative.

There's so much for them to deal with, it will be lovely if you can do lunch times for a while as he's settling in to the new surroundings.

Will try to be more succinct this time.

Just wanted to say that here in MS, GS and CP (not sure about after), the schools organise activities during the long lunchbreak for the kids who eat at the canteen. At maternelle there was judo and drama, in DS1's new primaire there is djembé and at both there are staff from the ludothèque who come and play board/card/other games with them.
That really helped DS1 to feel more enthusiastic about the canteen, as did making good friends, which only happened in MS, not for linguistic reasons but just due to affinities.

Most schools in our town run clubs like this with intervenants externes, but not for PS as they are already so tired I think. Maybe yours does?

Re the Martine books, my DH works in an ad agency with lots of creative types. One day I was visiting and saw someone had decorated their cubicle all over with Martine book covers. Intrigued, I got closer to find the covers had been photoshopped to things like:
Martine discovers threesomes
Martine does LSD
Martine and the porn star
Martine and the overeater (really weird one)

Martine books have not been the same for me since.

Sorry, that was completely OT
:)

Greythorne
It's the children bending over and displaying frilly White knickers and clearly visible bottom clefts that I find most