Feeling anxious about DCs starting French school...

[slinkyboo]

Just wanted some words of wosdom and hand-holding, really! We've been in France a few months but DC have been at bilingual school. In Sept they are due to start at a French school. The school is very good and everyone praises it, and it is well used to expats' children as there are so many in this area.
BUT I am feeling more and more anxious about it. DCs are 6 and 4 and I cannot stop imagining theor first day and just HOW they will cope, and how lost they might feel. They understand some very basic French and I am trying to get them to watch French TV etc but my stomach wrenches when I think about leaving them there. How many days/weeks of potential tears and upset will there be???
Tell me to pull myself together...I know, I know. And no I am ansolutely not showing any of my fears to them and nor will I!

What is the alternative to canteen? Back home for 2 hours?
In Belgium, the break is only an hours and half, out of a school of 420+ children, less than 10 go home, it's really unusual now here to return home during lunch time. When our children started there with no French, I decided therefore that coming home for lunch would not be a good idea, they needed to spend the day in French, not switching languages and environments, that they needed to have a stable routine.

Is it normal to go home at your children's school? It would perhaps make a difference, if I were in your situation, especially if most children come home, but the downside to coming home is also the change of language, plus if a child is reluctant to return to school, they might soon be using the situation to develop illness regularly in the afternoon to avoid returning.

slinkyboo, I'm in Belgium too and there were quite a few from dd's primary school who went home for lunch right up to sixth year primary though obviously there were far more at your ds's age. It's a difficult one. If you bring him home he may be happier but it will take him longer to make friends and pick up the language. I have to admit though that I brought my dd home every day at your ds's age. She never made a fuss about going back in the afternoon. If I hadn't brought her home, maybe she wouldn't have been happy to go in the morning and made a fuss then? In your position, if you are able, I would be inclined to bring him home and see how it goes.

I'm in France and it is quite normal for kids to come home for lunch here. The vast majority go to the canteen as most parents work, but there is nothing odd or unusual in keeping them out. Basically it's a 2-hour break. There (roughly) 1 hour of canteen plus one hour of playing outside. If a kid is a bit shy and speaks no French, it can be tough. My DS hated canteen (he went twice a week - they days I work) throughout petite section and hated it. It's noisy, overrun with kids, often not sufficiently staffed. Now he is in moyenne section it's going much better, but he's had months and months to get used to the idea. He would still be happier coming home (he now only comes once a week, again due to my work commitments). I would say that you should judge it by your child. If he's unlikely to cope with the playground rough and tumble in a foreign language, I wouldn't stress about bringing him home. If you want to push him to settle in and think he will cope, put him into canteen.

Thank you so much for the replies. Lunch here is 1200-1320 so not terribly long.
I had pretty much decided yesterday to scrap canteen although this would mean a problem with my work and quite a bit of favour-asking and juggling. But obviously DCs come first! However, having slept on it (restlessly) we are going to try him in canteen again tomorrow and Friday...with the incentive of a new toy at the weekend etc also just this morning I have managed to ferret out a bit more from him about what happened last week and it sounds a bit less dreadful (from his pov) than the original version...I only wish I could be a fly on the wall there as I feel quite in the dark really
But - if he is crying each time for the next two sessions - we will definitely think again. It seems a mix of 50/50 at this school of home lunches and canteen.

Slinkyboo, does the school operate "ateliers" during the lunch hour? Don't know the French system, but here in Belgium in the French schools (yes I know different countries but quite a lot of similarities in school system) it is quite common for the children to have ateliers during the lunch hour. Our children have always done them, I see several positives of them : continuation in French instead of playing with English speakers in the playground, stops them getting bored, they get to spend time inside school in the winter instead of being outside in -10deg weather. So 2 days a week, our children are out in the cour, 2 times a week in ateliers, wednesday they come home.

But no, you cannot have your son crying all the time. I hope it will pass quickly.

I'm not sure Natation - I'm not sure what that is!! It's just canteen then a bit of play outside, or home lunch...DCs are meant to do canteen Monday and fri, home tues and thurs.
Why don't schools allow you to send a packed lunch in? That would be easier but I guess it's a cultural difference...
I want tomorrow to be over already. Stupid knotted stomach! (of course I'm not showing any anxiety to DCs - we are at soft play and they are happy )

What? No tartines? Ooh would not be happy with that, it would send me overdrawn if our children had repas chauds every day. At our school it's 3,95 for repas chauds, 1 euro for tartines supervision (packed lunch), if they didn't have the choice of tartines, I think I would even forget the reasons for leaving at school during lunch hour and bring them home, to save money!

Oh that all sounds so hard, it's awful when you are feeling worried about them and then being a foreign system can seem so alien.

At our school it was also very normal to bring children home for lunch (including for financial reasons) and I only started sending DS1 to the canteen in moyenne section, twice a week.

Sounds like you have sorted out a strategy and given yourselves a time limit of things getting better by the end of this week, so hopefully it will improve. It's probably a lot for him to take in all at once and maybe he will just get used to it. Talking him through it sounds good, maybe even some role plays about how things happen there and what might be worrying him.

What sort of things is he actually saying about what happened to upset him?

My 4yo DS2 just started school on Friday (in Luxembourg now) and they still are very little and learning how to cope with new things...

Fingers crossed for him and you for tomorrow!! Let us know how it goes.

slinkyboo
i feel for you, having a distrought child in an environment that is alien to you is not at all easy.
We are in France too and we had in retrospect a minor hiccup but what felt like at the time a nightmare when DD started in Petite Section (she hated it) and I felt ill-equipped to reassure her as it was all completely new to me and so very different to nursery or even Reception in the UK.

But, to reassure you, she is now a happy Grande Section child and doing really well.

But she does hate the canteen! She goes two days a week and comes home two days. Evy single school day, she wakes up in a panic and asks, "is it a school dinners day?" and if the answer is yes, she is whingey and sulky. If the answer is no, she is fine.

It is really hard. I don't quite know what goes on in the canteen, but my DD does not like it and has not grown to love it or even accept it after a whole year in MS of being there twice a week.

We persevere with it because we feel it is hugely helpful for her French and it is time for her to have some social time with friends.

Perhaps you could do a couple of days at the canteen, a couple at home? That might helpmyour DS and encourage him a bit, but beware he might get jumpier than ever on canteen days, as our DD does.

I do wonder if we're doing the right thing sticking with the canteen twice a week. It obviously makes me life a lot easier, cuts down the lunch time pick up and drop off, but I am not totally convinced by it.

Hope you find a solution.

Sorry, forgot to say that I know a lot of kids love the canteen and thrive there and learn to eat haricots verts and Rebluchon....and certainly French parents seem to think the school canteen is not so much acceptable but essential and that you are depriving your child of a vital rite of passage if you bring them home for lunch but I wanted you to be reassured that you / your DC are not alone. We are very much in two minds about it. And the only thing my Dd has discovered food-wise at the canteen is Knacki frankfurters .

At my DD's school, the teachers in MS and GS all basically recommend that parents take their children home for lunch if humanly possible. This doesn't mean that the majority of children go home at lunch time - most parents work and/or don't want the huge logistical burden of collecting children at lunch time every day - but it does mean that relatively few children eat at the canteen every day.

I don't leave my DD (CE1) canteen because she is a much happier, nicer child who sleeps a lot better if she sees me at lunch time, rather than her school friends. And we do homework and stuff so the time isn't wasted. But I realise this is a huge luxury for her!

I have 2 DS's in French primaire. DS1 has been through the school since PS1 & since Grande Section (now CM1) has eaten in the Cantine occasionally - he is not a fussy eater by any means, but I found it much easier to look at the menu at the beginning of the week and say "oh, look, it's melon, then Spaghetti bolognese....and....chocolate mousse! on Thursday - how delicious would that be, I bet everyone will eat at school that day!" It's worked very well for him - when I need him to eat there for some reason, he's always happy because he kind of trusts me it'll be OK I think.

I'm lucky in that I have a choice to have them home or at the Cantine, but maybe the encouragement about the delicious food & the fact that all his friends will be eating there may help?

Thank you.
Bonsoir - I'm very interested in why at your school they recommend collecting children for lunch. What reasons do they give? And, I'm not sure how to phrase this, but what 'sort' of school is it? Regular French primaire school, or Montessori elements, particularly academic? I only ask because I'm desperate to make the right decision.

I have started to talk about the menu, trying to make it sound good etc, but i can't encourage DS with talk of his friends going to canteen as after only 4 days there he has not mentioned any friend yet

I've been so shocked by his tantrums this weekend...like a different child. I work over Monday and Friday lunchtimes and if we stop the canteen I'll have to give up those hours. It would be a no-brainer as DS's happiness (both DCs of course but at moment it's specifically DS having problems) is the most imp thing.
I sort of wish there was no canteen at all and so no option but to pick them up, if that makes sense. I guess because it's there I feel like we ought to be using it!

Someone (sorry not sure who as I'm on iPhone and can't flick back to posts as I type this) mentioned the noise in canteen. DS is hugely sensitive to noise and gets v upset by it on occasion. A friend's son witnessed DS in canteen on Friday and said he was crying and covering his ears and they moved him to a 'quieter area'
I will definitely report back on how he gets on tomorrow. I truly appreciate all the replies and advice from people who have been there/are still there!!

Natation definitely no tartines. Repas chaud about 4euros I think.

Weta - he said it was noisy, and the food looked 'horrible' (yes he is picky ). He also said he missed Mummy and he was 'alone'. But he is four and not the best at explaining his feelings or reporting something accurately...DD was much more erudite and reliable at this age...

Hello Slinkyboo. Just saw your thread and wanted to say something encouraging! My DD1 started PS last year aged 3 (very bad time as DD2 was born during her first week in school). She basically hated it for most of the first year- she just did mornings but her teacher encouraged us to pick her up after lunch so she could get used to the cantine (in her school, everyone stays for lunch) and she was the only one who did half days. We got her through the first year, I'm ashamed to say sometimes by blatant bribery. She had extra classes in small groups 2 days a week which she loved. Every so often, she stayed a full day when something special was happening, and gradually she got used to it. She is in a huge class, and found it all very overwhelming- she was used a lot of one on one time and even though usually very confident and outgoing couldn't cope with the playground. Towards the end of last year she chummed up with another girl and now, in MS, she seems fine and her French has come on a lot (though she still doesn't like to talk to me in French- very frustrating, I'm fluent and the teacher was quite cross with me that we didn't speak more in French at home but DD just won't)

I really sympathise with you, last year was pretty awful in parts and I felt very guilty, especially with a new baby on the scene. My DH would have pulled her out, but we knew it would only be worse later. It's true that the teachers don't make a huge allowance, they expect good behaviour at all times and they seemed surprised she wasn't speaking fluent French after 6 months. But believe me, that is normal, they just take it all in for the first year and suddenly they will speak confidently. If you can keep your DS going by any means possible (even if it means stopping the cantine for a bit) it WILL get a lot easier! Good luck!

messy
out of interest, are you and your DH both Anglophone? Did your DC speak little / no French at the beginning of PS?
why on earth did la maîtresse want you not to speak English to your DC?

That would have seriously pissed me off and left me lacking confidence in the teacher.

We do OPOL but when DD started PS, she aged 2.9, she really did not speak French even if she understood most of it. English was her majority language, no question (still is, in fact) but we were lucky enough to get a teacher who whilst no expert on bilingualism could see the benefit of what we were doing.

Now Dd's French is very good (but as I say, still lags behind her English) but I still worry that we going to get sone busybody teacher at sone point who thinks I should speak French to her.

How did you handle it, messy?

The noise was what my dd said she hated when I tried her in the canteen. That and the fact that the surveillantes made her eat more than she wanted to eat.

slinkyboo - my DD's school is a bilingual sous-contrat school, so basically standard French in its outlook, though probably kinder than most!

The teachers prefer children to go home at lunch time as canteen is very stressful for them. The teachers have an easier time of it in the afternoon if the children have relaxed with their parent(s)/grandparent(s)/nanny at lunch time.

My DD rarely has tantrums, but she can get pretty fractious if she has eaten in the canteen. It's a long day for little ones in France!

Hi Slinky, hope it all went OK this morning.

Greythorne, we are both Anglophone, my DH is pretty good and I'm fluent. When we had DD1, we did some research into raising children bilingual, and based on that, and our observation of friend's children, decided to speak English at home, and just do some basic French with her before school (we mostly read books and taught her some essential vocab, how to ask to go to the loo etc. We work but she didn't go to a childminder, my parents looked after her, and we live very rurally so there were limited opportunities for socialising with other kids her age before she went to school, she mostly hung out with our friends kids who are all older. So she had very good language skills in English, but she's also a bit perfectionist and hates making mistakes, so in PS, basically didn't speak much for the first year. From my reading, this is completely normal (they just take it in until they know enough to speak fairly fluently) but her teacher thought it was odd and ended up calling in the school psychologist! It seemed a bit of an over-reaction considering there were French kids in PS who couldn't even formulate a sentence! I explained our research to the teacher, but she didn't get it really... Luckily the psy is French Canadian, so when she spent some time talking to DD, who was chatting 19 to the dozen as usual in English, and she (the psy) told the teacher to chill out, and lo and behold, now she is in MS it's all fine. She still doesn't want to speak French to me, but that seems to go for all the kids who have Anglophone parents here -maybe our accents make them wince? DD has one friend (English but fluent in French at school) who used to burst into tears if she heard English people mangling French!

Longtime, agree the cantine can be a bit overwhelming, when I used to pick DD up after lunch I would hear the surveillante screaming at the top of her voice to the kids to finish up! She also didn't like the food much and I think for the first year we paid for a lot of food that went in the bin. She does like it now and is eating really well so far this year, so it does get better, and they are right in a way about the importance of the social element.

My DD's school is very clear that the canteen is a service to make parents' lives easier, not an educational opportunity for children. Ie no child is going to "miss out" educationally or socially by not going to the canteen.

Bonsoir that sounds very sensible, unfortunately here as most of the parent work full time and as it's a small village school some people live up to 20 mins drive away 100% of the children eat in the cantine, so the teacher's point was it was going to single our DD out even more if she didn't eat there and stay for playtime. Actually, her grandparents live in the same village so she could have easily gone home but seeing as she's one of the only ones who doesn't get the bus (we drop her on the way to work and my parents pick her up) I thought it would be a bit much if she was the only one who didn't have lunch in either!

I understand that messydrawers. When ds1 went into primaire we had to choose what he would do for religion. We choose morale rather than protestant (dh didn't want him doing catholic) as he would have been the only child in the class!

Just a quickie as I'm at work (and DCs in canteen of course).
This morning was awful. DS sobbed and said he wanted to stay with me etc I'm afraid I 'chickened out' and said if he still didn't like canteen today, he would not have to go again. That is my gut instinct as his mother...let him get used to French school gently. This very much fits his nature, too.
No idea how this will all work with the timings of my job. I have a lot to sort out. But my DS is four years old and quite frankly the job comes second. Who knows, if we push it he may just get used to it because he has to. But I know him, and I know that 'gently' is far better for him.
I'll update again this evening after I've collected him etc (although I'm not assuming that people are keen to know - everyone has a busy life, but you've all been so helpful )
Bonsoir - wish we had your school here!

Sounds like a good plan. Staying in school is much more important than the cantine. We reasoned the same thing, even though DD was the only child to come home for the afternoon and her teacher was a bit funny about it (silly as the PS spend most of the afternoon napping!), it was the one thing that made the experience tolerable for the first year and now she's fine for the whole day . Poor you, it's horrible having to leave them upset and go off to work, last September I sobbed several times outside the school gates after drop off (post-partum hormones didn't help either!) It will get better!