Totally shocked!!! Need help please!

[danceswithdeath]

Okay so. My son goes to a private school; they do pray etc but we are not religious at home. There are obviously other parents who do not follow a religion too.

I am on a group WhatsApp with the fellow parents of my sons class (just gone into year three). Someone has just put a link for us to sign, and it is regarding not teaching our children about LGBTQ in class....

Now, I get it. Everyone has their own personal opinions. But I find this really shocking!! No one has replied expect myself, where I have asked if it was a mistake or not. They said no and to read it.

Well I really want to put something, but I'm not sure if I should... it's pissed me right off though!! I am so open with my son! He knows about a lot.

Has anyone any advice on what I could say that is calm and to the point?

I don't think you can put it all in the same category.

Yes of course children should be taught about loving same sex relationships: one of the most beautiful passages in the old testament is about the same sex relationship between David and Jonathan "he loved him better than any woman" sorry i can't chapter and verse but it's definitely and unequivocally there. And mysteriously written out of history or 'friendzoned'.

On the other hand Queer Theory has clear links to the paedophile movement, as does Transgenderism (which is also strongly funded by Big Pharma). I think these submovements use gay, lesbian and bisexual people as a human shield (metaphorically speaking) and as a bisexual woman and tentative Christian myself it makes me angry, to say the least.

@Lweji

Fixed it for you

Children as young as 5 should be able to be exposed to everything that their peers are with their parents permission

The petition wants to affirm a parent’s right to limit their children being exposed to the society they live in

It is not up to you or me to tell another parent that their 5yr old must be exposed to everything another 5yr old is exposed to. To dictate that parents cannot choose to limit the exposure of their own children is the opposite of freedom. Freedom of speech only applies to the speaker being allowed to speak, it does not apply to ensuring the presence of a captive audience forced to listen. Adults are free to choose who they listen to and learn from. Parents have the legal right to choose on behalf of their children.

forced to listen that's a bit hyperbolic.

@DarlingNikita
a state sanctioned orthodoxy

“Yes, that's enshrined in laws that strive for equality for all.

As opposed to a religiously sanctioned orthodoxy that is not the same across all religions and which differs even for individuals with the nominally same religious faith.”

No, it’s not really state orthodoxy versus religious orthodoxy because the state orthodoxy is the only one being taught in schools. The petition is not calling for their religious orthodoxy to be taught in its place.

I’m not sure what equality has to do with relationship and sex education? It’s not a class on history or civil rights...equality is more in the academic realm and would be taught regardless.

@DarlingNikita
forced to listen
“that's a bit hyperbolic.”

It is in the definition of compulsory that attendance is forced:
compulsory- required by law or a rule; obligatory.
"compulsory military service"
synonyms: obligatory, mandatory, required, requisite, necessary, essential, statutory, prescribed; More
imperative, enforced, demanded, binding, forced, unavoidable, inescapable, incumbent, enforceable; contractual, stipulated, set;
de rigueur
"legislation which made the wearing of seat belts compulsory"

involving or exercising compulsion; coercive.
"the abuse of compulsory powers"

Teacher22
Today 18:10 JocastaElastic

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that we should teach this to toddlers. The OP says her son is in year three, which means he is either seven or eight years old.

I’m not sure what equality has to do with relationship and sex education?

Quite simply that sex, sexual orientation and gender reassignment are protected under the Equality Act.

It’s not a class on history or civil rights...equality is more in the academic realm and would be taught regardless.

I'm not getting you.

Tbf to the argument that religious beliefs change over time and between societies, so do notions of equality. There isn't an absolute standard - it's very highly culturally mediated. So what's being proposed is that children have compulsory lessons about what equality is deemed to be by the people who put this pack together in the UK in 2019. Is this a justifiable use of curriculum time?

Plus, it's not really teaching equality - I mean, it doesn't cover race or disability equality- it's just teaching about sexuality and gender identity for reasons I'm not too clear on. As I understand it, the argument is that it is to counter the heterosexual narrative, but that "narrative", such as it is, only exists in the context of primary school because sex education at primary school is just about the bodily functions of reproduction, which describes heterosexual sex because if you describe how humans reproduce that's what you get.

RuffleCrow one of the most beautiful passages in the old testament is about the same sex relationship between David and Jonathan "he loved him better than any woman" sorry i can't chapter and verse but it's definitely and unequivocally there. And mysteriously written out of history or 'friendzoned'.

Possibly the same time the Bible was re-written to include the word homosexuality. It's a book written by ghost writers who had mostly never even met Jesus. I have often said to people that I can picture God up there, reading the Bible and stating: "What?! I never said that!" The Bible is like a tabloid. Written by someone who has never spoken to God, met him, and just made up. And there are around 342 contradictions in it (my dad had a book with them all in) which is what happens when you have people giving their own 'versions' of things in the Bible. I have Christian beliefs (I stress not the born-again fundamentalist to excess beliefs) but the genuine accept and embrace LGBT type of true Christian, and believe in God, but do not believe the Bible is God's even remotely. I think the 10 Commandments are from God himself. Yet apart from that, it is not more the genuine word of God than a 'based on a true story' movie is where 95% of it is made up and 5%, the base of the movie, is true.

I suspect a lot of people will be surprised come Judgement Day when they learn from Him that they have been following basically a tabloid magazine in a book that has very little to do with what the real Jesus/God said. I strongly believe that.

I do wonder about these parents (usually the Christian extremist fundamentalist type) who want to remove their children from these classes. Do they honestly think that their DC won't hear about it in the playground? That they won't be told/hear/pick up on what was in the lessons? Face it, they will find out anyway from their classmates. Trying to stop your DC from being told these things is like trying to turn back the tide on the beach with a household broom. Completely pointless. You may as well let them attend, because there is absolutely no way they won't ask/be told what was said in the lessons, anyway. You're only making them look the odd one out and draw attention to them being absent from those classes. Which will socially make their lives hard at school.

I do wonder about these parents (usually the Christian extremist fundamentalist type) who want to remove their children from these classes

ALL parents should be stopping Queer Theory from being brought into the classroom. I do wonder about the people who can't see this.

Do your research. This is not a topic for kids.

Adults are free to choose who they listen to and learn from. Parents have the legal right to choose on behalf of their children.

That's not quite true. There are limits to what parents can choose for their children and there should be.

And while strictly freedom of speech is about the speaker, limiting other's access also limits freedom of speech.

For what's worth, I'm not in favour of unlimited freedom of speech. But it's funny that people who want to limit their children's access to other people's speech accuse others of trying to prevent freedom of speech. If they are so keen on freedom of speech (funnily enough to "criticise" others), then they should have the courage to have their children exposed to other people's speech, even if it criticises their own beliefs.
Or is it only a flag to wave when it suits them?

I'd say they were arguing for freedom of belief rather than going down your convoluted definition of "speech". And yeah, freedom of belief is a thing.

Also, thinking that the dominant cultural mores of this or any other given time represent definitive "equality" is a belief too.

I'd say they were arguing for freedom of belief

I really wouldn't say that.

Also, freedom of speech being freedom to speak and freedom to access speech (information) is pretty straightforward.

Well, obviously you wouldn't because you've said something else! 😂 But they've explicitly stated that they object to this on faith grounds.

@Lweji
But it's funny that people who want to limit their children's access to other people's speech accuse others of trying to prevent freedom of speech.

And who would this be? It’s only you that has gone down the rabbit hole of freedom of speech on this issue. The petition makes no mention of freedom of speech at all.

You have been avidly waving the flag of freedom of speech and yet, even you have said you “are not in favour of unlimited freedom of speech”!

So why are you so strongly arguing for the imposition on other people’s children something that you do not even believe in for yourself? Or your children?

Is it because you think that these other parents are making bad choices for their children, but you are not? Do you think, like China, that a certain religious group requires “re-education” in state run compulsory classes?

@SaraNade
I do wonder about these parents (usually the Christian extremist fundamentalist type) who want to remove their children from these classes. Do they honestly think that their DC won't hear about it in the playground? That they won't be told/hear/pick up on what was in the lessons?

There is a big difference between hearing an abridged sound bite from a peer on the playground and being presented society’s flavor of the decade on relationships and sex by an authority figure for an hour several times a week. Like other posters here, I have concerns about various common beliefs that would probably be presented as fact rather than belief in these classes. A lot of the subject matter I feel is more appropriate given in a one on one setting than in a classroom.

@SaraNade We weren’t even allowed to attend science lessons that mentioned anything about evolution or genitals/fertility.

There is a big difference between hearing an abridged sound bite from a peer on the playground and being presented society’s flavor of the decade on relationships and sex by an authority figure for an hour several times a week.

I highly doubt it's several times a week. I'd expect a couple it times a year at best.
And you really prefer the highly altered (definitely not abriged) version in the playground to someone who knows what they are talking about? You really need to get your priorities straight.
If you disagree, then it's your job to further educate your child. Not limit their exposure.

You have been avidly waving the flag of freedom of speech

Before you continue with your ranting, check the post I was replying to. It was a pp complaining of other pps hypocrisy regarding freedom of speech. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of that complaint. That's all. As I wrote... You can't wave the "I'm allowed to say anything" flag and then want limitations on what your children have access to.
That is my point. It's not difficult to understand.

I'd say they were arguing for freedom of belief

They are and remain free to believe whatever they want, as are their children. All that equality education does is present children with viewpoints other than that presented by their parents' chosen faith.

Well yes, obviously. Is it a school's job to be doing that though?