Totally shocked!!! Need help please!

[danceswithdeath]

Okay so. My son goes to a private school; they do pray etc but we are not religious at home. There are obviously other parents who do not follow a religion too.

I am on a group WhatsApp with the fellow parents of my sons class (just gone into year three). Someone has just put a link for us to sign, and it is regarding not teaching our children about LGBTQ in class....

Now, I get it. Everyone has their own personal opinions. But I find this really shocking!! No one has replied expect myself, where I have asked if it was a mistake or not. They said no and to read it.

Well I really want to put something, but I'm not sure if I should... it's pissed me right off though!! I am so open with my son! He knows about a lot.

Has anyone any advice on what I could say that is calm and to the point?

their writings were inspired by the Holy Spirit

Well you've just lost the argument right there.

@DarlingNikita
“Their writings were inspired by the Holy Spirit”
Your response:
“Well you’ve just lost the argument right there.”

I know you were not responding to me, but whoever said that the Bible writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit is quoting the Christian Catechism. It is an article of faith.

I understand you do not believe in the Christian God or it’s articles of faith, but please try to be more open minded and tolerant in your responses to people who are Christians and who quote articles of their faith.

@YukYukYukYuk "there is a 4000% increase in transgender children"

Doesn't that tell you something? There is no logical way there can be a 4000% increase. It's just not possible. Not logically, unless it is a massive craze or fad.

Disclaimer: I am an old fart.

Wtf is wrong with just saying to children "Some girls fall in love with girls. Some boys fall in love with boys. Some people fall in love with girls or boys. Some people like to wear pink frilly dresses. Some people like to wear dungarees and bovver boots. Some people like to wear lots of make up and black flowy clothes. Some people dye their hair bright red. We can dress how we like. We can fall in love with who we like. Some people look like a boy but like to be called a girl name and for us to say 'she' and 'her.' Some people look like a girl but they have a boy name and like to be a 'he/him.' Some people you just cant' tell. It's normal for girls to like trucks and dinosaurs, and boys to like Barbies and playing hairdressers. What you do with your body is YOUR business and you get to decide. If you don't want to get changed in front of any other children for any reason, that's fine. Be polite to people and if they're not nice to you, tell a grown up, no matter what the meany is telling you.'

I mean, what else do they need to know? How have I damaged children by telling them that? Is it horrific and shocking? That's all kids need to know about trans issues, if they're primary age.

It seems to me a lot of people don't realise that in explaining some girls want to marry girls etc., you are not obliged to give a power point presentation, complete with diagrams, animations, and an exam at the end, on the mechanics of sex.

Doctor, please try not to lay down the law of what I might and might not say on here.

Additionally, the poster who posted that has also talked about schools that 'actively endorse that children should be taught about the complex issues of gender dysphoria and sexuality' as though that were a bad thing.

Which doesn't present itself as wildly open minded or tolerant.

Fromage, It seems to me a lot of people don't realise that in explaining some girls want to marry girls etc., you are not obliged to give a power point presentation, complete with diagrams, animations, and an exam at the end, on the mechanics of sex.

I couldn't agree more. A significant feature of people who object to equality in discussing sex, gender etc in schools seems to be a rather lurid and prurient imagination.

@Fromage
Hear Hear! I couldn't agree more. I like your stance as it puts the onus back on the individual and that they can be whomever the hell they want to be.

Fromage

Exactly. It should be that simple and that's how I addressed it with DS.

please try to be more open minded and tolerant in your responses to people who are Christians and who quote articles of their faith.

Ha, tell that to the Christians who continually berate non-believers and say they will go to hell if they don’t believe! Frankly, if more people called out religion for the nonsense it is, perhaps more people who were brainwashed as children would see the light and renounce it. It’s far too easy to live your life surrounded by people who are too polite to challenge your thinking.

I’m just saying it does not need to be made a subject in class. It should be taught at home

Arguably all sex education should happen at home. However, it's just realistic to recognise that it doesn't necessarily, and therefore it makes sense to cover it in school, including LGBTQ facts.

It's astounding to me that so many people as clamouring to slap down anyone who has the nerve to express religious faith and shut them up for daring to disagree with someone else's life choices or point of view in the name of inclusion and tolerance. What hypocrisy. Freedom of speech and freedom to live life how a person chooses is the very thing you hate to see, whilst defending the right of others to do so.

We need to acknowledge the shocking double standards and be done with it.

I've got no desire to persecute anyone for their opinions or behaviour, my opinions (founded on faith) are peaceful and I am Unafraid to share my thoughts on education because I'd like to protect my rights to raise my children according to these opinions and beliefs. Just as others do.

So before getting the pitchforks out against Christians, whom you claim to be hateful, just pause and acknowledge your hypocrisy.

itsesay, people are not 'clamouring to slap down anyone who has the nerve to express religious faith'. What people rightly object to is the idea of children being denied age-appropriate guidance on people's differences.

Your use of the term 'life choices' signposts your ignorance of LGBTQ issues and invalidates your argument.

@itseasybeingcheesy 1 Timothy says, “I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man.” It sounds a bit like you are trying to instruct and exercise authority here. If there are any men on this site, even Christian ones, you have transgressed your own beliefs. The Holy Spirit says, please be quiet

so many people as clamouring to slap down anyone who has the nerve to express religious faith and shut them up for daring to disagree with someone else's life choices or point of view in the name of inclusion and tolerance. What hypocrisy. Freedom of speech and freedom to live life how a person chooses is the very thing you hate to see, whilst defending the right of others to do so.

I think you misidentified where hypocrisy lies.

A petition (this one) is not about freedom of speech, or disagreeing with lifestyles. It's about shutting it down.

The religious people that are being condemned here are the ones who try to force their religion on everyone else. Including other religious people who are much more tolerant.

Nobody shouts more "freedom of speech" these days than those who'd rather not have it, it seems.

@lweji
“A petition (this one) is not about freedom of speech, or disagreeing with lifestyles. It's about shutting it down.”

Not true. This petition is actually supporting parents rights to CHOOSE what THIER children are taught. It’s not trying to shut down LGBT course material in RSE classes. It is merely petitioning for parents to have the CHOICE as to whether their own kids get taught these matters by the school.

“From 2020 in the UK, parents will no longer have the right to remove their children from Relation & Sex Education classes....While the Christian faith does not stand in the way of the LGBTQ community having the freedom to live as they please, their choices must not be imposed on us. There is no question that no one should face hatred for their sexual orientation or any life style choices for that matter, that same protection then must also be afforded to Christians and other people of faith.
Christians and other devout religious followers cannot live in fear to uphold the views of their faith on any matter and most definitely must be free to raise their children in accordance with the scriptures.
Please support this protest and this petition to get the government to allow parents to opt out of RSE lessons that are teaching matters of LGBTQ to children as young as 5 years old.”

So, preventing children from being exposed to free speech?

@DarlingNikita
“What people rightly object to is the idea of children being denied age-appropriate guidance on people's differences.”

First, who says only a school can provide age appropriate guidance on peoples’ differences to children? And secondly, how can anyone “rightly object” to a petition that is NOT denying this material to be taught to their kids? These parents are only asking for the right to choose what their own kids learn and when. Their petition denies nothing to other peoples (your) kids.

Doctor, I never said 'only a school'; but some parents, as demonstrable by this thread as well as real-world events, will not speak to their children in an appropriate way about diversity/equality issues.

And maybe it's time to give up your straw man about what this petition was about.

@Lweji
“So, preventing children from being exposed to free speech?”

No. This has nothing to do with free speech and everything to do with being taught a state sanctioned orthodoxy in relationships and sex.

@DarlingNikita
The only strawman here are those falsely claiming the petition is to stop LGBTQ material in RSE classes. Read the flipping petition. I’m not the only one to have posted here correcting you lot on this thread hoisting your strawman about and acting like their kids will be denied LGBTQ education. They won’t. All these parents want is the option to take just their kids out of the class.

OK, sure, if you say so

It's quite clear what the petition is about:

Please support this protest and this petition to get the government to allow parents to opt out of RSE lessons that are teaching matters of LGBTQ to children as young as 5 years old

The clue is in the phrase "allow parents to opt out".

This has nothing to do with free speech and everything to do with being taught a state sanctioned orthodoxy in relationships and sex.

It is to do with free speech and freedom.
If you want you can teach at home that your religion is against it. Children as young as 5 should be able to be exposed to everything that their peers are.
The petition wants to limit children being exposed to the society they live in.

As in, don't stop me from criticising other people's way of life, but stop them from talking to my children.
A true believer in freedom of speech (as in everything is allowed - as per the pp accusing others of hypocrisy) should allow free speech to everyone. No?

a state sanctioned orthodoxy

Yes, that's enshrined in laws that strive for equality for all.

As opposed to a religiously sanctioned orthodoxy that is not the same across all religions and which differs even for individuals with the nominally same religious faith.