DS went to GP to ask for gender referral without parental consent

[PerchedOnEdge]

NC for this.

DS(just turned 15) went to GP surgery to ask for gender clinic referral without parental consent. GP surgery of course turned him away. Now DS is trying to involve me as result.

Is this completely out if the blue? No.

Lately he has been testing waters by wearing skirt and tights in his school. His school did phone us about it a few days after the fact. DS has been insisting it was just for fun. Denial more like.

And now he is coming out with all "I have been thinking about it every day for the last 4 years. I am a girl"

To us there is nothing "girly" about him. He was a stereotypical boy toddler who say everything stick shaped as gun, lego, no hint of effeminateness about him. All his friends are boys and they are gaming with each other.

I also admit I have seen a lot of the negative trans material and really don't want him to be one of those trans people. I know one MtF IRL and that person is everything I don't want DS to be, but then I am closer to trans widow. I would have been happy if DS just came out as gay!

On the other hand, it really took long for DS to open up fully and I don't want to lose that open line of communication.

I know we are hardly unique in this situation and I know I should be reading more stories here but I am scared it all ends in tears and losing each other...if I don't take completely affirmative approach. Can gender dysphoria go away completely?

Ask him why he thinks he's a girl.

What makes a girl this him.

Yes I did. I got back "you'll never understand how deep this is!"

"Well your not" would be the first answer.
Have family days where you talk to him about what you enjoyed about him when he was younger "do you remember that you turned every stick into a gun? You were so determined."
Tell him the bits about him that remind you of other men in his family in a positive way.

The aim is to make sure he knows that you are his family and love him how he is. You are reminding him how he is a great man already.

He seems to be reaching out to total strangers to rescue him from his new thought process. There may have been some grooming involved.

Encourage him to invite his friends round, discuss his gaming with you so it's a shared interest.

Wow. Guns and lego make you male?

I think you need more help than MN can give you.

This is a horrible post, no matter what side of the trans debate you are on. You'd prefer he was gay? That's such a shameful thing to be. Isn't it? But so much better than other things? Perhaps where he stands is a result of you, not of him?

*Have family days where you talk to him about what you enjoyed about him when he was younger "do you remember that you turned every stick into a gun? You were so determined.
*
Sure. That'll help 😂

https://www.amazon.co.uk/When-Kids-Say-Theyre-Trans/dp/1800752644

I love the gender wider lens podcast (physiotherapists talking about gender in young people and society). They have bought out this book I think would be useful for you to read.

They are wary of the affirmative approach and against medicalisation of children.

He’s wearing tights and a skirt to school and has no previous history of dysphoria prior to puberty - sounds like a fetish to me.

I have heard of it but the reception from the trans community seems to be very negative as if it is conversion therapy or something. And I feel like I should be listening more to the trans voices, but which ones?

Interested in desistance rates. Quick glance at google seems to be suggesting low % of gender dysphoria persisting into adulthood but of course it seems to depend on the definition.

Worried about lifelong medicalisation but I don't want him to be in denial like my friends husband who then dropped a painful bombshell when they had a baby. She said it is completely out of blue but I remember him following lots of trans accounts on livejournal years before in uni days.

This is a horrible post, no matter what side of the trans debate you are on. You'd prefer he was gay? That's such a shameful thing to be. Isn't it? But so much better than other things? Perhaps where he stands is a result of you, not of him?

Being gay does not lead to permanently damaging your developing body with off-licence drugs, exogenous hormones and dubious surgery. Definitely preferable to the trans train.

What is he asking you to do right here and now?

Keep talking. I would go with him to his GP because I would rather be in the NHS than have him self medicating off the Internet or some private clinic.

I like the 'well, you're not' approach.
But absolutely it's fine to wear skirt and tights at school.
But don't you DARE go in the girls changing room because of this. Because that would be horrible and disrespectful to the girls wouldn't it?

What has he been doing online - try to find out. What is being taught at school - maybe that’s part of it.

This wont be helpful, its meaningless

Just as meaningless as someone 'feeling' they're a girl

Hes a male/young man because he has the sex organs and chromosomes of a male, its a simple as that. He has gone through male puberty.

So I would say to ensure that you celebrate his interests, whether thats playing with sticks and guns, music whatever but that you hammer home the message that he can wear what he wants, feeling whatever he likes but he is biologically a male and no other category is needed, he can have whatever hobbies or interests he likes, they are not sex based.

I would keep using the word sex, rather than gender. Gender is just personality more or less.

Asking me to come to GP and consent to referral to gender clinic. He wants puberty blockers with no evidence of harm except in the transphobic literature, bone density issues can be prevented with preventative medication, plus estrogen patches.

(Who knows he might get them off Internet with 2 year wait list...which worries me)

It really took a while to get him talking after I saw skirt. I suspect he has cultivated his gender persona in school for quite a bit long before he started wearing skirt and have friends affirming his identity. He did this 4 years ago and probably never really stopped. He probably tried to deny himself and even engaged with me with his own transphobic thoughts before but thank goodness I never showed agreement, but challenged him to think.

It will be interesting next few months ahead, for sure...

This child has done none of those things, and cannot right now. But isn't it great - the OP provided toy GUNS and LEGO. How dare this child not grow up male and straight? I bet they were taken to stately homes too.

If he is 15, he has already missed the boat for puberty blockers hasn’t he? He’s gone through puberty.

You mention being a trans widow, what do you mean by that? Is your DH trans? And left the family?

If so, presumably there’s a reasonable chance that is what’s driving this?

And my response would be ‘and you will never understand what it is to be a girl’

Limit his internet use. If you can ban websites and apps through parental controls do so.

Those picking up on “sticks and guns” should maybe remember that there is not one case of a trans person not relying heavily on regressive stereotypes. All the op meant was that there were no typical signs of gender non conformity, which is the usual excuse for telling vulnerable children that they were born in the wrong body 🙄

He started puberty quite late at 14, but yes could be still bit late. It is all new still to me.

No, me and my DH are friends with trans widow. We still see her ex (rarely), as they are still friendly with each other for sake of their child.

Thank you.

I'd probably show him some photos of the horrific surgeries, and ask him what exactly he was aiming for here.

4 years? So is he saying he has felt like this since 11? Was that when he wore a skirt and tights to school, or recently? It's a bit confusing.
I would definitely read the book mentioned above and the Gender A Wider Lens Podcast because in both cases a large range of people from many different perspectives are looking at gender and transgender experiences. They are also looking at evidence and have people: those identifying as Trans, doctors, therapists, parents etc so you get a more holistic perspective. There should never be a point of view you don't even hear out to see what they have to say for yourself, otherwise you are always working from the perspective of an inexperienced 15 year old and others with a strong bias in one direction.
I am sure you are intelligent enough to think for yourself and be able to expose yourself to different viewpoints. It's much more dangerous to make lots of assumptions without doing any reading or research.

Honestly I wouldn't take any of the advice here. I'd refuse the consent to gender referral and explain why. Badgering him in any other way will just make him withdraw. I'd continue to allow him to express himself in whatever clothes and interests he wants and engage the same way you would any other teen.

I'd also speak to the school and reiterate that he can wear whatever (cos there's nothing wrong with men wearing skirts) but that his name and pronoun remain sex-based.

Have you read the Cass report?

This child has done none of those things, and cannot right now. But isn't it great - the OP provided toy GUNS and LEGO. How dare this child not grow up male and straight? I bet they were taken to stately homes too.

way to miss the point by a mile.

dysphoria appears to come in at least 2 flavours. The long term one where a child rejects stereotypes from a very young age. The second type is where it is onset at puberty having shown no signs previously.

the underlying causes are very, very different, and need treating differently.

(Full disclosure, I am type 1 here, but came to terms with accepting myself as I am, and am very glad I did, given the horrific side effects of the drugs and surgery)

@PerchedOnEdge

‘no evidence of harm except in the transphobic literature,

Since when is stating fact transphobic?

Oh I forgot, reality means zilch.

He cannot change sex. Even with drugs, harmful and iireveaible drugs, his body will consistently try to revert to its sex.

What does he actually want? Does he want meds plus surgical transition? Have you spoken to him about transvestitism?