DS trans - I am GC - how to talk and avoid conflict

[Inapickleiam]

Hi, name changed for this for obvious reasons.

DS has been at Uni for a year. Had a great time. Told me at Christmas he is, I think, pansexual, i.e. attracted to a person, could be boy, girl, whatever. This didn’t bother / surprise me. He now has a GF who is trans.

This summer a few things have been different and I had a suspicion he might be planning to say he is trans too and some other things have now occurred that have confirmed this suspicion & he is now using a female name at Uni.

We haven’t spoken about it so I want to get my thoughts and words straight. I am GC, he knows that, we have argued about it before.

Maybe we won’t speak about it, he will be a girl a Uni and stay the same at home & maybe this is for the best?

Ultimately I love and adore him and really don’t want there to be issues between us. I would struggle to accept calling him anything other than a man, because I just don’t ‘believe’ it. My biggest fear is medical intervention and doing anything that is permanent or might damage him. Secondary fears are the consequences to his family, career, relationships, plus, I guess, a belief that it is a fad, a trend, he is going along with the crowd, he doesn’t actually have a medical condition of gender disphoria. I am also acutely aware that the trans community is very welcoming and almost encourages estrangement from disapproving parents and I desperately do not want this to happen to us but fear if I fully expressed my views, I would be pushing him into the arms of this, well, it feels like a cult.

So, I think I am looking for advice on how to tackle these conversations.

Please help, I have read this back and know I sound fairly calm but actually, I am having palpitations and sleepiness nights over this!

thanks.

This is exactly how we are with dd. Because we are so laid back / neutral it’s actually encouraged her to talk about things with us and it’s a good way of her actually sorting out her own thoughts - it’s led to some amendments in her own thinking. If we had expressed views we knew she wouldn’t entertain it would have pushed her further the other way, ie more extreme.

I suppose for a GC person, trying to wholeheartedly go along with a transitioning child, might feel like going along with the eatiing habits of an anorexic child. Absolute love and support does not necessarily mean you can never discuss or challenge.

What does this even mean. So sad.

It’s incredibly homophobic to tell two males who are in a relationship that they are not gay. The very definition of gay is same sex attracted!

It is not homophobic if the two people themselves define themselves as female. If you call them gay you will be misgendering them.

Does he actually want to change his body or just dress etc like a woman? If it's the latter, just let him get on with it. The former would be much more disturbing.

@Inapickleiam if you are gender critical then I don’t understand why you think that your child is using a female name? Surely a name is a name because male and female names are only so because of gender not biological sex. Names aren’t related to X and Y chromosomes.

manicdolphin
Lovely post.

Pansexual is a made up label - sexuality is all about sex. There are only 2 sexes. If you are attracted to both sexes you are bisexual - bi meaning 2.

These two males are gay or bisexual. It's homophobic to say that males can be lesbians. A lesbian is a woman attracted to other women.

So two trans women in a relationship together (ie the ops child and their partner) are gay men 🤔…. I wonder how that would go down with the trans community. I’m trying to imagine by the way - I don’t have dd and her friends to ask, I’m actually not sure. I can’t imagine they’d be happy to be called men in that sense though.

'Well the person he is dating is biologically male so he is gay

<reply>

'If they are both trans women they would say they are lesbian'

You'd be hard pressed to understand how angry that makes me. They might 'say' it but there is no way, on god's sweet earth, that two men, attracted to each other, are lesbian.

What an utter mockery of womanhood.

How did we get here? Where even suggesting this is okay?

How have we, on Mumsnet, (me 2004) arrived at THIS ridiculousness?

Yes, the pile on. 'Glad you're not my trans child's mom' etc.

But I stand by what I say.

I believe this boy is gay but his internalised homophobia shies away from that. So he's having a relationship with a bloke via the co-option of 'lesbian'.

How important is being GC to you? More important than your relationship with your son? It doesn't sound like it from your post. Maybe don't label yourself as that, for a start, as it doesn't sound helpful in the circumstances. Either (s)he really is trans, and your being against it will be damaging to him because he will feel you don't love or accept him for who he is. As you say, this is likely to end in a strained or estranged relationship. Or it is just a phase, and you railing against it will spur him on. Literally nothing good can come of it.

I would also hate for my children to have to be surgically altered in gender reassignment (because of it making life harder for them, not because it is somehow "wrong"), so I do really sympathise. But ultimately freaking out / being all "I think sex is a biology which can't be changed!" is about you and your feelings - going on about them won't help your child.

'Everyone in their early 20s is experimenting with their identity'

Well meant, but most 'identity' experimenting in most people's lives is via chinos v. jeans, fade v. mullet.

Not 'dick on or off'.

I think the best approach to this is accept it and do not criticise, don’t force a conversation, don’t engage in the subject . Nothing you will criticise will result in anything positive so just be your child mum .if it’s a “ fad “ as you believe , then it will eventually go away , if it’s not , then you and him can deal with it eventually.

So two trans women in a relationship together (ie the ops child and their partner) are gay men

Yes, because lesbians are same sex attracted females, which doesn't involve anyone with a penis.
Claiming males are lesbians is homophobic and misogynistic.
Two males having sex are either gay men or bisexual.

I really don’t understand his motivation and it is quite surprising to me. He has never been feminine or girly

most likely the influence of the people surrounding him at uni, especially the 'girlfriend'.

This. In spades.

Bodies cannot be wrong. Affirmation is not love, it is exactly like eugenia cooney mum type of love, or jazz jennings mum.

Thinking sex is about biology and can't be changed isn't about the OP and her feelings though, is it - it's just factual.

'It is not homophobic if the two <male> people themselves define themselves as female. If you call them gay you will be misgendering them'

No no no.

Don't buy into this doublespeak. And do not disrespect the handy meaning of 'lesbian' in doing so.

Two men are sexually attracted to each other, therefore they are gay. They, and you can mislabel it as you will. But they are gay, with internalised homophobia.

This is pure homophobia, writ large.

Possibly, possibly not. The point is though, for this particular OP and her particular child, it's irrelevant.

It means you know there's only sex and gender is a made up thing.

might be a good moment to tell some people trans people rarely deny there are two sexes, they just do not believe that sexe always determines gender.

@Hotsaucegal
If they decide to pursue medical interventions (hormonal or possibly surgical) they need will undergo a lot therapy and assessment before hand

You're joking aren't you?! My trans child has received zero therapy before starting medical transitioning. The unethical, online private clinic they paid for only asked for medical history, no therapy or assessment was required.

I'm posting this, to warn other parents that their child could also medically transition without any assessment and therapy.

OP, I'm in your situation. My child knows that I don't believe in gender theory, we've reached an impasse where we do not discuss transgenderism (or politics, or anything important really, it's sad for both of us to not have an honest relationship).

But even though my child knows that I don't agree with their views, I use their new chosen name & pronouns, support them through thick and thin and love them dearly. My child rationally knows that they are loved, even though we disagree on this issue, which for them is fundamental. But it is what it is, we're each flawed and doing our best to muddle along together.

I will be devastated if my child choses to go no contact with us, after university. But I can only bend so much, if in the end that is not enough for them, then it would be a loss for both of us.

OP talk as much as you can with your son, make sure he knows that you love him, it's not dismissive to remind them that being trans is only part of them, not the only important aspect of a person whom you love.

I’m replying to you specifically but also to the thread in general. Your post really resonated with me. My son is 15 and told me 2 years a go he has felt like a girl in a boys body for years. It actually didn’t come as a surprise to me for various reasons but at the same time I was devastated for him and the distress he was in, has been in and still is. I’ve hovered around some of the threads on here in despair at the hatred my son (soon to be daughter) will face in the future. He will start transitioning soon and I know the difficulties he faces and my heart breaks for him. He is a lovely person inside and out. Kind, caring and strong and determined. He has no wish to upset women and “perve” at them in their toilets. He worries over what toilet to use in the future when he starts his transition. He already faces daily verbal abuse because teenagers recognise he is different. If people could see the genuine heartbreak and distress he feels and could see him cry himself to sleep every night because he feels he is a girl and the mental torture he faces every day at school they would surely not be so critical of his beliefs and want him to feel happy one day and comfortable in his skin whether that be as a female or a male. Up until my son opened up to us I didn’t really have an opinion either way but now - just let people be happy whoever they want to be - I just want acceptance for all. My son will one day soon be my daughter. I don’t know how I’m going to feel when he walks down those stairs in a dress but I know I will love her still, support her and want the best for her life can give her and hope others can see the person inside I see and love her too.