Another teenage girl who want to be a boy

[allatsea123]

This is my first post on mumsnet! I have read and reread other post on girls with gender dysphoria and have gained a lot of support, so here goes! Our daughter told us about 6 months ago that she felt she should be a boy and the only way forward was to transition fully. She was 14 then, now 15. I was totally devastated and utterly lost. I had felt that something was on the horizon as she had asked for a hair cut and started wearing boyish clothes a few months previous. We didn't know what to do so suggested she give herself 6 months to think about things. We did take her to the GP though as I thought counselling might help. She was referred to CAMHS and the psychologist told us that she wasn't convinced by our daughter and that we should come back to her in a year or so. Thank god for the voice of reason, I thought! We did get referred for counselling which was not helpful because she wasn't given any strategies to help deal with her feelings. The last six months have seen her become socially isolated, depressed and she has developed an eating disorder. We are now back at CAMHS with the eating disorder nurse and hopefully soon for a more thorough assessment of her mood, OCD behaviours etc. I completely fell apart at the beginning but seem to have convinced myself that this, although very real for her at the moment, won't persist and so am better able to cope. I believe this is sudden onset gender dysphoria, she never showed any discomfort with being a girl until a few months before she told us. as a small child she was very girly, she became a tom boy for a while a primary school but never asked for boys clothes. As soon as she left primary school it was earrings, make up, hair styles etc. She embraced puberty and it doesn't seem long ago she was moaning that I wouldn't buy underwired bras. I feel as if she was struck with a thought one day that has taken hold and drawn her in. She is sad, lonely and lost and so are we. We still use her name and refer to her as she because although we know she doesn't like this she won't let us tell anyone, even her siblings so we have no choice. I know that she is totally convinced that the only way to be happy is if someone can wave a magic wand and she can leave the house tomorrow a boy. How that would help I have no idea as she would then be a girl in a boys body! She has never had any typically male interests, has an older brother but never shown an interest in his things and all her friends are girls, how could she relate to people if she was a boy? I don't know how to help her though this. We have said that we will support if she still feels this way as an adult but I can't give permission for any medical interventions when I am not convinced that this is a permanent thing. She has always been one to reinvent herself every now and then and I suppose that is what I am hoping for, that she finds a way back to being happy being herself. But how???

Funny you mention what I woke up thinking this morning...how we used to be a happy family. It affects everyone. My husband feels I am letting this rule my life (he’s right), my almost 12 yr old son thinks his sister is acting crazy and my D seems to have no hobbies other than compelling others to accept her reality. I am exhausted.

Cautious request for anyone willing to speak to a journalist about what is happening to their family. I know I can't risk it so I don't expect anyone else to, but pm me if you think you can. All the best everyone.

UK journalist or US?

UK national broadsheet

I would love to tell my story but can't, my dd hasn't told anyone else so can't risk going public. One of the hard things about being the mum in this situation is that I would love to tell it from my point of view but it would be so hard for my dd to know how deeply this affects me and how utterly devestated I will be if she transitions, the pain and loss is huge and I feel it would be so easy to lose my centre of gravity and spin off into depression. But she can't know that, so I will never be able to tell my story .

Allatsea, I can really empathise. I feel the same. These poor kids don't need the added burden of the devastation we feel as parents.

I hope one day we can tell our story, I dream of the day when I can hug her and tell her how proud I am of her as a wonderful non-conforming young woman. Hey ho.

Also I have posted about a support forum for parents like us in another thread - the link is here.
gendercriticalresources.com/Support/
There are quite a few parents from the UK, majority from the US, but there's lots of good advice and a space to let off steam if you things at getting too much.

Great post here:
4thwavenow.com/2017/10/25/born-in-the-right-body-introducing-4thwavenows-new-spokesperson-mom-of-a-teen-desister/

I know it's the Daily Mail, but here is the piece written by the journalist. I think it at least picks up social media pressure and the sometimes blind acceptance of schools and MH professionals:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5027927/NHS-pressured-kids-change-sex.html#comments

Thank you for sharing this, at least it opens discussion. The memorandum of understanding mentioned in the article is worrying, but interesting to note that while it's been signed by NHS England and Scotland it hasn't been signed by the Royal college of psychiatrists.

I am worried now as we are waiting for an appointment at the Tavistock next year sometime and I am afraid it will just give weight to my daughters feelings. I feel if we could hold off for longer and just continue with our counsellor who feels as I do then in time she will be able to make up her own mind and not have it made up for her. Does anyone have experience of the Tavistock and was it helpful? I was hoping to get her to a stage where even if she feels she still wants to transition she is prepared to wait and therefore it might be a bit of a waste of time going to London and also she is in year 11 so won't really be able to have too many days off school.

This is another useful site inspiredteentherapy.com/

A therapist who offers online services and feels teens should explore themselves not necessarily change themselves .

Allatsea - no experience - hopefully someone with some will come along soon. Could you phone them and ask for her appointment to be delayed and explain why?

I found the advice the GIDS website for theTavistock give to counsellors working with children to be fairly helpful, especially this:
"Help to keep options open and maintain safe uncertainty.
Young people’s identities are developing throughout adolescence and into adulthood, and some people decide that they would like to express their gender identity in lots of different ways, which may change over time. Keeping options open is important to allow a young person to feel able to change paths if they want to".
gids.nhs.uk/working-therapeutically

This does make a lot of sense and makes me think their approach at the Tavistock will be reasoned and balanced. I think I will leave it for now and nearer the time sound out my daughter about postponing any appointments as I know she will beanxious about her exams and so probably not want to miss too much school, even though she really hates it.

Thank you @AllatSea123 for this post. I am now going to devour every page of it. I understand how you feel. My daughter has presented as male for one year now, now with male name (which we try to remember to use, but DH struggles with saying he/him.) I think there's an epidemic of girls coming out as 'trans', girls who haven't necessarily shown this feeling from young childhood. I can understand wanting to opt out of female adolescence. Periods, being stared at or commented on by men, even all the stories about sexual harassment in the news. Sounds like a rubbish deal. And the fashion stuff, pressure to have a popular Instagram account with duck face selfies. Yuck, if you just want to be a person first, not a girl. Also, I find the whole "my son loves pink and glitter so must really be a girl" annoying. That doesn't make you a girl! I hated that stuff when I was young, and hate having womanhood reduced to skirts, makeup, baking or pink pink pink!

I tell my daughter that she can be ANYTHING she wants to be. Any sort of job, wear any sort of clothing, have a male or female lover, marry them (or not). More freedom than any generation had on earth ever. Is this the last remaining boundary? Saying we have so much freedom we can even change our biology? Also, there just can't be THAT MANY lifelong trans people. There must be some element of catching it. Not literally, but catching onto the idea. It must feel like a relief. Oh, so that's why I am anxious and awkward and find it hard to make friends. For girls in particular, I think it solves a lot of problems in the how attractive should I try to be stakes. I mean some teenage girls go full false eyelashes, push-up bras, etc. Do you Keep Up with the Jessies or just opt out and wear a Nike tracksuit. Definitely sounds easier. And I guess if you are bisexual or lesbian, it feels like you've solved that one too.

Anyway, she is now 'he', wears men's clothing, has a male haircut, and is perceived to be male MOST of the time when we're out. Has a male name, which DH and I use (unless he forgets, which pisses off him/her). Also her/his sibling is male, and is not impressed with the whole thing. I look forward to reading whether any of your children have siblings of the same or different gender and what they think about it. Enough from me, I am here to learn more.
Thank you thank you.

what is she reading online?
id be blocking things she is reading at home, for a start.

Hi @Stopmakingsense I think your post makes a lot of sense. I agree with some of it (social contagion and issues around puberty as potential causes). I am sympathetic to my child's issues, but I urge caution before any hormone/surgery. I have had friends who had breasts removed in mastectomy, so it feels really (insert word here) to imaginw cutting them off without a genuine health reason. That said, I do understand the point that many trans kids feel suicidal, and I would prefer my child live as a man than that. We are waiting and seeing, using male pronoun and name. Child does seem a bit happier, but that could be just removing some of the pressure of being female adolescent in today's world.

Today I spoke with my DH about whether this has any similarities to teens going punk, or rockabilly or getting lots of tattoos. It gives you an identity, which is containing and safe. You can be different but within a set group. Maybe it's nothing like that. I am just searching for answers.

Hi @Imamum2017 I agree with what you say about the viral aspects of this at the moment. My daughter, my goddaughter (in another country), my daughter's former best friend, all ftm trans, also an old friend's son is now trans too. This in addition to many other people I know, friends of friends, etc. It seems like a lot of people getting the same idea at once. There are so many reasons why someone could opt out of being a female teen in today's culture. Who wants the pressure of the makeup and Instagram and fashion, when social media could inflate any little mistake or uncool thing into a lasting shame. Opting out to the "easier" life of a teenage boy seems a handy escape hatch. The clothes are loose and less room for fashion errors, no pressure to look attractive, if you think you can get rid of cumbersome boobs and period hassle too? I think lots of bright kids fight the culture of their time. In previous generations, they maybe went punk or shaved their head or just opted out of the mainstream culture. Now a huge number of people are coming out as trans. I too was/am panicked about things moving fast with medical intervention. We have told DD/DS that she/he must wait until being an adult to make sure a serious decision, and that our role as parents is to protect them from taking an irreversible decision so young.

Hi cinderswasamug , I am sorry you are in this boat too. I am not sure how helpful I can be except perhaps what not to do ( feeling like a rubbish mum at the moment). The only way I can stay sane is to convince myself this is temporary and every time my bubble is burst I sink into despair all over again! My daughter asked me today if she could have her hair cut again this week, it's like a punch in the stomach and I feel so bad because I find it impossible just to say ok. She used to have really beautiful long wavy hair until a year ago, now it is short and boyish, like most of the daughters mentioned on here. I know I should just go along with it as she is hurting and I am being selfish letting her know my feelings, she is so sweet she just says it's fine and will leave it a while before asking me again. I feel I am emotionally blackmailing her and also giving her something to keep rebelling against in her own quiet way. I know I would be so much more objective if she was someone else's child!

As for the sibling question, she has an older brother and a younger sister, neither of whom know her feelings about her gender as she hasn't wanted to tell them. We all use a short version of her name which is ok I guess. I think her brother thinks she's odd. She has depression and an eating disorder so they put it all down to that. It is affecting her sister though because the whole family is much quieter and solomn than we used to be. I am utterly fed up with the whole thing and want to go back to how we used to be.

Sorry for the moan, today was a difficult day!

Allatsea - sorry that Monday was a rubbish day for you. DD has seen the GP who will refer her - but to speed things up her dad offered to pay for her to see a psychiatrist privately. Obviously this kind offer has been gratefully received by me and her step dad. Can any one recommend a child psychiatrist in the South East ? I've left a message with GIDS ? Tavistock and with a private mental health provider Clinical Partners. Another question - has anyone told their daughter's school ? My DD is at an all girls school and her step dad says if we tell them -they'll chuck her out. Personally I think that's rubbish. Should we tell them now or wait until she sees a psychiatrist.??? THANKS

Hi - have been lurking for a while but wanted to join the conversation

allatsea your child sounds so like mine. DD2 (who wants to be DS) has recently been diagnosed ASC, and is seeing CAMHS to deal with school anxiety. She has always been one to push "normal" - whatever anyone is doing she takes it to the next stage. We have had mad crazes that have been all-consuming before but the older she gets the harder it is. She is so upset and confused, but convinced that she is ftm trans and will go to see Tavistock, go on puberty blockers, go on T when adult then have top surgery. And that's what I also hate - the cosy cute little phrases bandied about by the youtubers etc - "doing T" sounds cool and hip, rather than "taking cross gender hormone medication". "Top surgery" much better than "mastectomy and chest reconstruction surgery".
Got to go as have autism workshop but will be back

Hi pinkfluffyslippers, we haven't told my daughter's school because she didn't want to, they know she has issues with her self esteem, body image, eating disorders and may have guessed she is unhappy in her gender but they haven't said anything about that directly to me. I am grateful that school don't know partly because I didn't want there to be any repercussions for my younger child at the same school. I think schools these days will be supportive, it is such an of the moment thing that it is constantly in the news and schools have to support diversity of all types. I would be cautious though as you don't want them taking things faster than you as a family are comfortable with, they could well be overly politically correct which would make a u turn by your daughter harder. I think as well its about what she is comfortable with. I am glad in some ways that we have kept this very quiet, at our daughters request, although sometimes I think that might be to help us or because she is scared and so I sometimes wonder if we should encourage her to tell everyone then she could really see if being treated as a boy is what she wants or not. Good that your daughter will see a psychiatrist though, hopefully it will help her clarify her thoughts. There are so many reasons why they choose this hook to hang their difficulties on.
House mum, how old is your daughter? Was she diagnosed through CAMHS ? They dismissed my feelings about ASD and OCD and referred to the Tavistock which really worries me but hopefully won't be for a while yet and they do seem reasonable on the GIDS website. You are right about the language, it takes the gravity out of the situation and makes it appealing to kids.

My daughter is 14, she was initially referred to CAMHS for eating issues (she managed to convince the GP she was heading towards anorexia even though I could see that she was basically quoting textbook lines about self image and food). They quickly saw through this and was referred for ASD diagnosis, a year later she was diagnosed as being on the spectrum and also noted to have anxiety which she is being seen by them for. During these sessions she told her counsellor about the gender issues and got the Tavistock referral.

That's interesting, my daughter was referred to CAMHS about her gender issues initially, the psychologist wasn't convinced by her, and sent us away to come back if she still felt the same in a year. Then she lost loads of weight through making herself sick and not eating so we were rereferred to the eating disorders nurse at CAMHS, I have tried to get them to look at ASD and other origins of her thoughts to no avail. She has been referred to the Tavistock and we haven't seen a paychologust at all since the very first appointment. Seems crazy to me that they allow this self diagnosis by children. Maybe we should go private and see someone. The most helpful person so far is the counsellor we pay to see, she is brilliant and focuses on her as a person and not her gender.
. How do you feel about going to the Tavistock?

I feel that going to Tavistock just validates everything which I don't think is the case. They say that it's a long process etc but it still seems to be that everyone is so scared of missing the one who will end up harming that they just agree to whatever the teen "believes".
Interesting article from the Times on Fb today - I'll link here, its pay to view but you can get 2 free per week if you leave your details:
www.thetimes.co.uk/magazine/the-times-magazine/meet-alex-bertie-the-transgender-poster-boy-z88hgh8b8

Allatsea thank you for your reply. I haven't done anything about telling the school yet - but DD says she will tell them. I expect her step father and father will probably go nuclear if they find out... which doesn't help the situation. All private psychiatrists seem to say go to GIDS Tavistock they are the best. CAHMS have said they will refer her, but don't want to see her (hmmmm) so the GP is referring her to GIDS.

Has anyone got any advice / tips on filling in the referral form. We're filling it in first then will send it on to the GP for sending off.