Another teenage girl who want to be a boy

[allatsea123]

This is my first post on mumsnet! I have read and reread other post on girls with gender dysphoria and have gained a lot of support, so here goes! Our daughter told us about 6 months ago that she felt she should be a boy and the only way forward was to transition fully. She was 14 then, now 15. I was totally devastated and utterly lost. I had felt that something was on the horizon as she had asked for a hair cut and started wearing boyish clothes a few months previous. We didn't know what to do so suggested she give herself 6 months to think about things. We did take her to the GP though as I thought counselling might help. She was referred to CAMHS and the psychologist told us that she wasn't convinced by our daughter and that we should come back to her in a year or so. Thank god for the voice of reason, I thought! We did get referred for counselling which was not helpful because she wasn't given any strategies to help deal with her feelings. The last six months have seen her become socially isolated, depressed and she has developed an eating disorder. We are now back at CAMHS with the eating disorder nurse and hopefully soon for a more thorough assessment of her mood, OCD behaviours etc. I completely fell apart at the beginning but seem to have convinced myself that this, although very real for her at the moment, won't persist and so am better able to cope. I believe this is sudden onset gender dysphoria, she never showed any discomfort with being a girl until a few months before she told us. as a small child she was very girly, she became a tom boy for a while a primary school but never asked for boys clothes. As soon as she left primary school it was earrings, make up, hair styles etc. She embraced puberty and it doesn't seem long ago she was moaning that I wouldn't buy underwired bras. I feel as if she was struck with a thought one day that has taken hold and drawn her in. She is sad, lonely and lost and so are we. We still use her name and refer to her as she because although we know she doesn't like this she won't let us tell anyone, even her siblings so we have no choice. I know that she is totally convinced that the only way to be happy is if someone can wave a magic wand and she can leave the house tomorrow a boy. How that would help I have no idea as she would then be a girl in a boys body! She has never had any typically male interests, has an older brother but never shown an interest in his things and all her friends are girls, how could she relate to people if she was a boy? I don't know how to help her though this. We have said that we will support if she still feels this way as an adult but I can't give permission for any medical interventions when I am not convinced that this is a permanent thing. She has always been one to reinvent herself every now and then and I suppose that is what I am hoping for, that she finds a way back to being happy being herself. But how???

My strategy was to distract and delay the name change and further progression by any means necessary. I did it in a low key manner so it did not become a power struggle. I asked my daughter to wait because family members would have a hard time and she just needed to give us a lot of time to get comfortable. I used the same strategy for the binder. From what I witnessed on social media, they are encouraged to change everything asap to feel better. If you can't, just keep gender issues to a minimum. In our school all this peaked in 7th grade and died down by the end of 8th grade. It all depends on when they are exposed.

It's a dance of validating their feelings but not letting these ideas get a strong hold.

I spent 2 years in a slow non confrontational manner trying to redirect thoughts and ideas. It ran my life during that time and I do believe she would have grown out of it regardless. I did not feel I could take that chance at the time.

Gender ideology is just a set of beliefs like religion. Anyone can be trans if they believe gender has rules that should be followed. In school, it can easily feel like girls need to be obsessed over boys and clothes and if they don't, there is something wrong. Society has spoken and unspoken pressure but with maturity we realize we carve our own path and that there is indeed a choice.

Petunia, it has been incredibly helpful reading your contributions as someone who has gone through this. It has given me a real boost in my conviction that most of these children will come through this and helped me sleep at night, thank you so much. My plan now with my dd is to continue as we have, as gender neutral as possible, delay everything for as long as possible, encourage the positives and hopefully develop in her a real sense that she can and is coping with this. Teenagers are bound to want to take the most immediate and extreme path at first but if we can convince them to wait and to begin to be ok with themselves hopefully they may then be in a better place to actually weigh up the pros and cons properly and I think like your dd for many they will gradually come out the other side.

Polly it is so unfair that you have been forced into this, are you able to seek legal advice or have someone with you who is in a position to reinforce the benefits for those presenting with sudden gender dysphoria of taking things really slowly? The trouble is any evidence is based on those few individuals who historically presented with this and probably were the few who needed to transition, who had felt uncomfortable for a long line. Evidence based research hasn't had time to catch up with this explosion of children all claiming dysphoria. So those in schools, CAMHS etc just toe the party line which is now out of date. It is very frightening indeed. I really hope you find a way of minimising the impact that this has. If you have to go ahead with the name change at school that doesn't govern how you address things at home with your daughter. Professionals play a dangerous game when they think they know better than the parents of a child. Hoping you find a way forward this week.

Thanks Petunia and allatsea your posts are very helpful.
The only person who could possibly help us influence School is the CAMHS therapist but unfortunately she also chooses to toe the line and follow the script.She refuses to listen to our concerns as she is doing as she's told.
I will continue to deal with this at home by slowing things down and watchful waiting.

Most of these ideas will fall away because they are extreme and require a very narrow view of the world to exist. It is all connected to tumblr and social justice warriors (i.e. white straight oppressors). I am actually thankful my daughter was exposed at a younger age to be able to have time to grow out of it. Many hit college and get into these groups. We never thought to tell our daughters that females don't feel like females, they just are.

Take each day one at a time. Laugh as much as possible. Try not to take them or yourself too seriously. It's hard, but it helps. Control what you can and let the rest go. If they need counseling, find a good one. I asked everyone I knew for recommendations and then interviewed them. It took about four months, but I found a great (Christian) counselor who agreed with me and helped get a handle on the anxiety and depression. I really do believe that helped and took the focus away from gender and put it where it needs to be which is managing the anxiety.

The following paragraphs are from transgendertrend which questions the current transgender thinking and how this affects young people today with girls and boys like ours. They have responded to an NHS consultation on the proposal to basically lower the age at which young people could be treated with medical interventions. We can contribute to the consultation paper until 16th October. A chance to have our say! If you have time please do so.

An NHS Public Consultation on specialised gender identity services was launched in July and remains open for public response until October 16th, through their online survey here.

The new specification which alarms us is the proposal to lower the age of acceptance into adult services to 17 years.

Currently young people can be referred from the Tavistock child and adolescent clinic at age 17 years 9 months, to take into account waiting times for adult clinics. If the age of entry into adult services is reduced to 17, effectively this means that referrals from the Tavistock will be made at age 16.

We strongly oppose this change. The NHS does not acknowledge that it will disproportionately affect the unprecedented number of teenage girls being referred to the Tavistock clinic, nor that this is a new phenomenon for which no explanation has been proffered. To simply enable their faster passage to surgery without investigation we believe shows a lack of duty of care to this group.

www.transgendertrend.com/nhs-public-consultation/

There is a link to the consultation paper from the above website

Parents of kids on the autistic spectrum struggling with their gender identity might find this helpful:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfj4baDdunw&feature=youtu.be

@pollyglen and all of you: this is what you're up against I'm afraid

Yes @MillicentFawcett unfortunately i have already had the 'pleasure' of coming across this dangerous individual.Yet they are actually abusive,not me.Bullying parents in to submission and medicalising kids.

Stopmakinggsense, I found the video really useful, it gave me hope and perspective. Petunia I reread your contributions because it really helps to know that despite the mainstream saying that if teenagers tell you they are transgender then they are, that many do work through it. We had a difficult start to the week with tears and upset because people will use the female pronoun and her name, she hasn't wanted to tell anyone at school so they don't do it deliberately and she usually comes home having had a better day than she did last year. It is so painful watching your child suffer. My strategy is just to keep telling her she is coping really well and there is a small improvement but it does feel like one step forward and two back. This really is a marathon!

Pollyglen, how are things with you? Your life must be made so much harder with agencies not fighting your corner, I hope you are able to get some good support.

Tara Hewitt is herself transgender. That is of course perfectly fine, except that she is not medically qualified or a trained psychologist, she is a campaigner. If you see everything through a single lens (that of being transgender) then of course you are going define everything through that same lens. And the NHS and schools etc are receiving all their information, it seems, from campaigners like GIRES and Mermaids (who believe in gender identity like a religion).

I think medical professionals are in a very difficult position, so may be more cautious in private consultation than in public. They are being effectively blackmailed by threats of suicide and self-medication through hormones obtained online. However, they have a professional duty to "do no harm", and are of course aware of the negligence claims they may face if they misdiagnose (at least I hope so).

Allatsea - I thought the video was very thoughtful. Most of all it was the thoughts of a mature individual who has had time to reflect on her autism and has been able to resist pressure.

An article here saying it is false to say that puberty blockers are reversible:

www.onenewsnow.com/science-tech/2017/10/15/doctors-transgender-puberty-blockers-are-dangerous#.WeS00dW5FpF.twitter

@allatsea things are still pretty bad obviously not helped by the fact we basically do not have a voice anymore when dealing with the agencies you would assume would help us.
We have decided not to accept anymore CAMHS involvement due to the name change debacle and have asked to be referred to the Tavistock which should give us a bit of breathing space.
As for School,they now think nothing of calling us up and referring to our daughter by a male name,even though they insisted it was purely for use during the School day.They have even changed her name on the Dinner money system so i have to face that every time I top it up.So insensitive.
Meanwhile my daughter continues to be isolated and is receiving no helpful support.

Pollyglen - it is very upsetting. I burst into tears when someone asked what my DD had been like "when she was a boy" (i.e. in her childhood). Talk about cognitive dissonance. If I have to deal with someone official about my DD (she is 19), I say "she, sorry, he". When talking to her I can avoid pronouns all together - I am getting pretty skilled at it. When talking about her between ourselves, DH and I always say she, helps keep us sane (but we do use her male name - mercifully it is a gender neutral one).
This might be worth a go, while you wait:
gendercriticaldad.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/ignore-redirect-and-reward-dealing-with.html

Pollyglen it must be massively difficult. I am only still sane because I pretend everything is ok as much of the time as I can. I am almost CAMHS phobic and really only because it's the place where I have had to listen to people talking as though this is all quite usual. I suppose that's their job and they didn't see my daughter before she chopped off her hair and starved herself into a stick shape. They don't know that she used to be a really happy, typical girl before she fell down the hole and got stuck. We are waiting for an appointment at the Tavistock as well and I am terrified they will suggest things like the name change and social transition etc. I am deperately trying to think of ways to get my daughter happier in herself so that she might not want to go. I don't know if I am being a good parent or not. Sometimes I think she would be so much happier if we called her something different. But she hasn't asked for that yet so we don't. Do you think it has helped your daughter? I don't see my daughter getting any pleasure from any of her clothes etc. I just see she was happy and now she isn't. The one thing that is helping is the counselling, not through CAMHS. The counsellor acknowledges what she says about herself but focuses on ways to deal with her feelings based on the idea that everyone has difficult feelings and everyone has the resources within to cope. We are going for CBT and mindfulness at the moment and I just keep telling her how much better she is at coping. Though you would never think that first thing in the morning! I am so sorry for you that you have been pushed into this corner further than you should have been, it's outrageous and so hard for you to have it so public.

I am so sorry for you all having to go through this too and am so grateful that you feel able to offer your support to others when you must feel dreadful.
@allatsea she actually is not happier now her name has been changed.In our view this just makes her life a lot more difficult as she's exposing herself so publically at such a difficult time.If she changes her mind it will be so much harder to go back.She is really isolated and her friends seem to leave her out a bit.Probably because a 'boy' does not really fit in with the typical teenage girl activities.
I would advise keeping gender identity issues private for as long as you can as our once private little family is now the subject of lots of local gossip which really hurts.
@stopmakingsense why do people have no idea how devastating it is to refer to our children as boys?.No compassion.

I think it would be fine for her to talk to the GP on her own if she is confident to do that. I imagine they would quite quickly want to involve you though if she wants to go down any medical route. Maybe talking to someone outside the home on her own might help her clarify her thoughts. You could always go with her and introduce the topic and then wait outside. The GP might want to refer to CAMHS for a psychological assessment before referral to the Tavistock. Good luck I am glad that you are ok with this and so not going through the struggle that some of us are. It is what you feel is right for your child that matters

Allatsea123 Thank you very much for your reply. I had my question withdrawn by MNHQ as I realised I had accidentally posted in your thread and I didn't want to "hijack" the conversation by mistake! I really appreciate your advice. Fortunately DD is fairly up front so I think she'll be fine about talking to the GP. If I may ask another quick question - where is a good place to get a binder ??

I don't know where you can get binders my daughter doesn't wear one, I didn't want her to as I think they are too restrictive and come with warnings of only to be worn for limited periods of time. My daughter just wears sports bras and is like me quite flat chested anyway.

Don't get her a binder! They damage breast tissue horribly. Please read 4thwavenow pinkfluffyslippers so that you are armed with info rather than following your DD's lead blindly. She will be being brainwashed by YouTube.

Have a look at this list of YouTubers -https://blog.feedspot.com/transgenderyoutubee_channels/ I bet your children started following some of these before they 'came out' as well as getting deep into tumblr

Thanks for this helpful advice. DD wears sports bra at the moment and I was aware that binders shouldn't be worn for long periods of time.

I will look at the Youtubers as suggested. Thanks again

We are over 3 years into this and it feels like it never will end.

That must be utterly exhausting. It really is a waiting game but many young people do come through the other end content to be themselves , that is what I keep telling myself and it is confirmed with stories all the time of detransitioners. There was an interesting programme on radio 4 with John humphries about gender recently, very balanced I thought.

She is ASD and fixated almost exclusively on name and pronoun but has dug in a bit more recently (chose tux for graduation picture, stopped carrying a purse, bugging me again about a “boy’s” haircut and even though we went through this before and it looked terrible. I am almost the the point where I think the only way she is going to get through it is when she is off on her own and neither has us a side a safety net, nor everyone affirming her like they do at school. I know it this also goes on at college but I think she is convinced that the world will continue to bend to her needs.

You might be right about your daughter going into the world and finding it such a different experience to being in the small world of home and school. Sometimes I think the only way my daughter might desist is to really give being a boy a go and see how it works. But I am too scared to suggest it and she hasn't asked to yet. At the moment it's only my husband and I who really know, I have told my best friend and she sees a counsellor. Apart from that all her friends who probably have an idea she is different now don't really know the reason why. She wears boyish clothes and has quite short hair but that's it. She doesn't want to become masculine in terms of interests and behaviours she says you can be ftm and not have to be masculine and still wear make up but be a male, which I guess is true but seems odd to me, why bother? It seems that she really doesn't like her body but is happy to be feminine. This scares me, is it true transsexual or adolescent angst? She is a very clever and thoughtful person who has a history of reinventing herself. She is currently worried about climate change and the effects of unsustainable palm oil and so has become vegetarian again. I am trying to be like petunia but finding it very hard. I need to let it go a bit because I am so consumed it is having a very damaging effect on my marriage, we used to be a happy family and now we are fragmenting. Mumsnet is a life saver.