Another teenage girl who want to be a boy

[allatsea123]

This is my first post on mumsnet! I have read and reread other post on girls with gender dysphoria and have gained a lot of support, so here goes! Our daughter told us about 6 months ago that she felt she should be a boy and the only way forward was to transition fully. She was 14 then, now 15. I was totally devastated and utterly lost. I had felt that something was on the horizon as she had asked for a hair cut and started wearing boyish clothes a few months previous. We didn't know what to do so suggested she give herself 6 months to think about things. We did take her to the GP though as I thought counselling might help. She was referred to CAMHS and the psychologist told us that she wasn't convinced by our daughter and that we should come back to her in a year or so. Thank god for the voice of reason, I thought! We did get referred for counselling which was not helpful because she wasn't given any strategies to help deal with her feelings. The last six months have seen her become socially isolated, depressed and she has developed an eating disorder. We are now back at CAMHS with the eating disorder nurse and hopefully soon for a more thorough assessment of her mood, OCD behaviours etc. I completely fell apart at the beginning but seem to have convinced myself that this, although very real for her at the moment, won't persist and so am better able to cope. I believe this is sudden onset gender dysphoria, she never showed any discomfort with being a girl until a few months before she told us. as a small child she was very girly, she became a tom boy for a while a primary school but never asked for boys clothes. As soon as she left primary school it was earrings, make up, hair styles etc. She embraced puberty and it doesn't seem long ago she was moaning that I wouldn't buy underwired bras. I feel as if she was struck with a thought one day that has taken hold and drawn her in. She is sad, lonely and lost and so are we. We still use her name and refer to her as she because although we know she doesn't like this she won't let us tell anyone, even her siblings so we have no choice. I know that she is totally convinced that the only way to be happy is if someone can wave a magic wand and she can leave the house tomorrow a boy. How that would help I have no idea as she would then be a girl in a boys body! She has never had any typically male interests, has an older brother but never shown an interest in his things and all her friends are girls, how could she relate to people if she was a boy? I don't know how to help her though this. We have said that we will support if she still feels this way as an adult but I can't give permission for any medical interventions when I am not convinced that this is a permanent thing. She has always been one to reinvent herself every now and then and I suppose that is what I am hoping for, that she finds a way back to being happy being herself. But how???

Another really interesting article on OCD and transgender thoughts

medium.com/@jemima.s/tocd-why-we-re-seeing-transgender-themes-in-cases-of-obsessive-compulsive-disorder-bf4b869a3817

I can relate to this myself having had post natal depression and obsessive thinking, my dd also has recognised OCD thoughts with her eating disorders.

This is an interesting piece written by someone who transitioned at 19 and then detransitioned at 39. He gives alternatives to dealing with dysphoria. He has also trained as a psychologist en route. Also there is an update on the jungsoul website giving some common elements in the stories of families whose children have had sudden onset gender dysphoria and later reverted back.

thirdwaytrans.com/about-the-author/

thejungsoul.com/guidance-for-parents-of-teens-with-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/

How is everyone getting on? It's definitely a very long haul for us.

I can't offer any help but my adult son decided he was actually a girl a while ago. S/he suffers from anxiety ( for other reasons), has never had a relationship and does nothing which would seem to be 'feminine' in nature. No change to activities, looks, clothes, but apparently I am to take it that he is now a she. I am being supportive but am so worried that the issue isn't gender but something else underlying it all. There is so much I could say on here but it is really painful for me to go into it.

Do you think your son would see a counsellor? I think the underlying message from all that I have read is that addressing existing mental health difficulties is paramount. You can also access Cbt on line sometimes through the NHS if he doesn't want to see someone in person. Maybe if he hasn't had a relationship yet he feels he is failing as a man and that life would be easier if he was a woman? The man on the thirdwaytrans website talks in detail about his feelings of not fitting in as a man when he was younger.

It is by far the hardest thing I have ever dealt with and I do really sympathise with you.

Well, he has seen to a counsellor , diagnosed with general anxiety , insists he wants to be female, and has told all professionals that he will only be happy when this happens. I agree with other comments that his perception seems to be that women have life easier (if only!) O course I want him to be happy but I also worry that he is ill equipped to make huge decisions. I often think he is in some alternative universe that I don't recognise.I find it all very confusing.

I know what you mean, nothing in my childhood or experiences to date prepared me for my daughter saying she wanted to be a boy. It is totally beyond my understanding. I am only hoping that as we see more of it in the media that they will feel that the world is changing and that they won't have to. It is acceptable to be gender nonconformist now, they don't need to make actual, medical changes which they might regret later. Let's hope we can keep them safe long enough so that they make the right decisions as fully mature adults with life experiences behind them.

Another mother here in a similar boat. The hardest thing was that feeling of our Dsd being in 'another universe' and the stress of not knowing whether to 'play along'.

Two years down the road she has just dropped the whole thing and doesn't talk about it now. It was an awful, awful time. She is depressed and anxious and not a happy child (adult!) but the gender dysphoria isn't mentioned anymore.

It came to a head one day when I was very blunt about what her future would look like if she wanted to navigate the world as a cockless man. I think she had idealised the outcome. I was very blunt. But it seemed to be a turning point.

Thank you brownmouse for sharing this. I am sorry that your daughter is still struggling and hopefully she will now be able to disentangle her anxieties from her gender and find a way forward. You must be relieved that she has dropped the want to transition. I think there are so many depressed teenagers who hang all those feelings on the transgender hook and then get totally stuck.

What a shocking day!.I haven't posted since March,just been concentrating on slowly encouraging and supporting my daughter in a neutral way.Was called in to School today and CAMHS therapist and School staff presented us with a Solicitors letter informing us that we HAD to change our child's name with immediate effect no discussion.Has the world gone mad?.We now have no parental rights or authority. .

My goodness polly, I'm speechless.

The world has indeed gone mad

I am so sorry you are going through this

I am so sorry too, I would be beside myself with rage if I were you. Who instructed the solicitor to write the letter? Have any of these people any idea what they are asking of you? It is almost impossible getting your head around the concept of sudden onset gender dysphoria let alone taking official steps to change names. I cannot believe this has happened, she is your child not theirs and exactly that a child.

argh im so sorry i didnt rtft i didnt realise how old it was my bad.

My daughter expressed a different gender identity for 2 years. All these posts sound very familiar in our experience. After going through this with my child, I believe biology should be our basic talking point. I think the issue for most is the discomfort with femininity (for girls) and ideological group claiming 'trans' is the answer. We can be anything as a male or female and until they accept themselves, there will always be issues. It is difficult before the age of 25 to understand this and those prone to anxiety, depression or other conditions see this change as the answer to all their problems and there is so much support behind this. I will be compassionate to all who are struggling, but I do not believe it is the answer except for a very, very few.

I was a nonconforming teen myself and struggled with being feminine and body issues. I am so thankful there was not a culture/group telling me I should be something else or have medical treatment. When tribalism takes hold, the need to belong (through online/social groups) is more important than the need to make sense and that is the climate for many we have with this issue. I have gone through the entire spectrum of emotions and changed my mind many times, but ultimately I do not believe gender is that important and I think it may be a result of living in an online world, where we live in identities that lack reality and substance. After reading some transgender ideology, it would have applied to me during my teenage years and some still applies today. The ideology takes some normal feelings and presents them as abnormal. My child became worse after taking on a boy identity. When she started to pull away from identities, her life began to move forward again. The damage that ideology has done will last and it will take her awhile to rebuild her self-esteem and confidence.

My heart goes out to all the parents dealing with this now and know that there is hope and for many it is just a phase.

Thank you everyone for your kind words.The school sought legal advice and told us that as she had requested a name change we were forced to comply.End of.
What a frightening world we are now living in.They have zero concept of the future consequences of this.They are just ticking boxes.We have been reduced to carers with no rights.

Also please run a mile from CAMHS if you can because the moment you express concerns that go against their script they will force your hand.They were also involved in the forced name change.

I am so sorry you are going through this right now and have to agree that the law is not on our side. If it helps anyone, I screened counselors and found one that would work on the anxiety and depression and was gender neutral. I did not address gender in our home and kept reinforcing the idea that men and women are a mix of masculine and feminine traits and enforcing rules on them was limiting. I took away the internet (for other reasons) for a few months to get that influence minimized and to gain some perspective and I removed all social media so she would not live in an echo chamber and could notice how people lived in the real world. I spent all my time with her and had her participate in physical activities. We are fortunate to live in a conservative area which the school counselors understand the trend. I spoke with an LGBT support person who urged caution and said do not label or change anything until adulthood and to vigorously treat the anxiety. I had her watch funny tv shows where everything was taken lightly and everyone was joked about (i.e. The Office). Eventually, she started to feel better about herself again and moved away from the trans identity. I think for many it is a comforting victim status and it feels good to have a name on it rather than just be lost and confused. All humans crave identity and purpose and many extreme ideologies give these teens an anchor at a very unstable and emotional time in their lives.

I agree with those saying it is the new goth for many. I think it is very sad that this is taking so many kids with same sex attraction and autism. It breaks my heart and I hope there will be some sanity and common sense coming soon.

Pollyglen that is appalling. How old is she? Of course the school thinks they are preventing suicide as this is what they have been told:
4thwavenow.com/2017/09/08/suicide-or-transition-the-only-options-for-gender-dysphoric-kids/

LoisLoves do you think your DS may have undiagnosed Asbergers/ASD? Worth a thought (as this might explain the anxiety, lack of relationships and gender difficulties):

This is a helpful read: www.transgendertrend.com/our-sons-a-mothers-correspondence-about-her-trans-identified-autistic-son/ And absolutely underlines the prevailing belief in schools and mental health services that gender identity is some immutable, permanent aspect of a person's biology, and how damaging their attitude can be to a vulnerable adolescent. My DD is 19, identifies as male for about 18 months. We have stayed as neutral as possible, because there is a (very small) chance that she will thrive as an autistic transgender male. But as far as I can see there is no one who will challenge her. We are terrified of damaging her fragile sense of self; her peers are kind of "meh" about it; and mental health professionals are dispensing hormones for fear that they will self-medicate from illicit sources if denied.

Petunia, this is extremely well said:
I think for many it is a comforting victim status and it feels good to have a name on it rather than just be lost and confused. All humans crave identity and purpose and many extreme ideologies give these teens an anchor at a very unstable and emotional time in their lives

My youngest has an ASD and I have thought oldest could be the same. The youngest is a boy and he doesn't understand why his brother has now decided that he is trans gender. It has all become very confusing. I will say that there is a history of undiagnosed ASD on my husband's side of the family. There are adult men who quite clearly have it and behave very strangely, nothing surprises me anymore! Thanks for the link , I will take time to investigate more. I have found it very comforting to know I am not alone after reading all on here, thank you.

polly - did your DD not display any signs of dysphoria until the start of the year?

I know so many girls who experienced dysphoria at that age - they used to get eating disorders as a way of opting out of puberty. Now their feelings are taken on a runaway train of gender :(

I'm so sorry, I can't imagine how shocking that must be to have your parental rights just overridden like that.

Lois we are all down the rabbit hole with you, groping our way in the dark. The psychiatrist who diagnosed my DD with ASD (after the gender thing cam out of the blue) says gender difficulties and/or eating disorders are very common in people with ASD. And that is it very important that the person gets their head around being autistic before making any irreversible changes. However, the gender essentialist view is that someone with ASD will need extra help transitioning, because transitioning is the magic bullet. There are even some self-declared gender experts (GIRES, I believe) who put in their evidence to a parliamentary committee that treatment for gender dysphoria can cure autism [sceptical].
Check out the feminist chat board too - there are fabulous group of women there making waves about all of this and have really opened my eyes to what is going on (and the damage to all people who don't conform to stereotypes, not just girls).

Millicent-she is 13 and announced her gender dysphoria out of the blue in January zero previous symptoms.She had always been such a lovely straightforward kid up until that point.Really kind and happy,although she always struggled with maintaining friendships.She got in with a more 'alternative'crowd just before the big announcement,who all claim to be bisexual,pansexual etc.None of her friends are just gay or straight.
Yet School and CAMHS just accept this as fact with no counselling or proper diagnosis.
Thanks everyone

polly can you get legal advice yourself? Just because the school have got a lawyer to write to you does not mean you are necessarily legally required to comply. I suspect they are looking to cover their backs in case your child gets someone to make a complaint about school not changing her records.

It's all really quite scary, you are trying to act in the long term interests of your child and no one really knows the best approach. Affirming her beliefs may well lock her into a very destructive future rather then saving her from a suicide she may never seriously consider (more than any other troubled teenager). I can't imagine being forced into such a horrible position. The trans identifying child at my dd's school certainly appears to be no happier now that she is being called by a male name.

Thanks nooka,we are so ground down by this nightmare that we are genuinely terrified that our child will be taken from us if we don't comply.At every stage we have been made to feel like crap parents who's fears are just bigoted opinions.And I feel embarrassed admitting this as my husband and I are quite strong people who take no messing.