How would a share of a house ever get to the children of the deceased partner if the other stayed in the house?

[quillfram]

Hi!
My mum passed away recently, and my dad has just bought a house with his new girlfriend.
They plan on marrying in the new year.
He said that he is protecting our interests by buying a large house. He has a mirror will with her (I don’t understand what this is really, but as far as I can tell, this is basically like having no will at all as she can just change it without him knowing? Why on earth would someone choose a mirror will over something else?)

He said that its in the will that if he passed away, she has the right to stay in the house, but if she sells it then she gets 50% of the value and me and my sibling get 50% between us.
But if she is the surviving partner, how would we even know if she came to sell it, if we have nothing to do with her after my dad dies?
How would his wishes be honoured if she stays in the house, then dies? Or goes into care. Surely her grown up kids would just sell the house and share the value between them?
We wouldn’t even know it had been sold most likely.
Can anyone advise on what would happen? Would us getting our share just be at her/her kids disgression? Would we have to check in every few years or something?
Does this arrangement actually protect nothing at all?
Where would we stand legally? Anywhere?

I’m not here for the lectures on ‘no one is guaranteed an inheritance’ etc - its my late mum’s money he’s bought this house with, its about honouring what she would’ve wanted to happen with everything she worked for.

thanks.

I presume they are buying the house together. Very simple, they need to buy as tenants in common. Each own 50%. If your dad passes he leaves his half to his kids, giving her the right of occupation until she either co-habits, re-marries or dies.
Guaranteed you will get his half then.
If joint tenants, he can't leave the house to anyone, other than the other joint tenant ... it automatically passes to them regardless of what the will says.

Mirror wills just means they are the same but opposite. Each is signed and witnessed independently. Nobody's will can be changed except by the person whose will it is.
Once one person dies, the other half is owned by the heirs. Ie you if your father passes first. You get a charge registered against the property with land registry and it can be sold without your consent.

Sounds like he has taken advice and is being very sensible and protecting your inheritance whilst balancing the need for housing the new partner/wife.

Exactly
Tenants in common

After death of one of the tenants, whoever inherits raises a charge against the house, with the land registry, so the house cannot change ownership (be sold or inherited) without you being informed beforehand

I agree that the house should be as tenants in common. Meaning that each party owns their own share outright and can leave that share to anyone, including his children.

I think the right to occupation for the surviving spouse could be for a fixed period say 2-5 years, which would guarantee that your Dad's share would go to you within a specified time.

However, that depends on Dad's wishes.

It depends on how your father has set things up.

If he's just relying on the mirror wills for his half of the house to be left to you by his partner on her death, then nothing is guaranteed as she could simply change her will later down the line and leave your nothing.

On the other hand if he's set it up so that you will inherit a half share of the house upon his death then you could register this with the Land Registry which would prevent the house from being sold without your agreement.

Thanks for this. They’ve bought it 50/50, tenants in common. But if he dies we’ll likely lose touch with her? How would we know if she sold it/dies?
Would we have to be checking all the time? Would an exectutor of hers make sure we got our share?
i just don’t understand how we would ever know.

You would know because if your dad dies and his wife survives as part of dealing with his estate the ownership of the property will be changed to be whatever is specified in the will and whoever is dealing with probate will have to ensure mortgage company, land registry etc is updated (a total PITA to do FYI).
If I were you I’d ask for a copy of the will, ask your dad to name you as one of his executors and get a solicitor to do probate etc if he does die first to make sure everything is done correctly and to the letter of the will.
As for care home fees, even if the house was sold to fund them only wife’s percentage could be claimed, not the whole value (as long as will is executed properly)

This.

I don't think a will is enough.

My FIL wanted to do this with a new girlfriend a year after MIL died - the new girlfriend was the same age as me but also had adult children and owned a property which she was keeping as her children's inheritance. The proposal was FIL buy a property for himself and girlfriend with the proceeds of selling the family home and she have lifetime rights to live there assuming due to the age difference that he died first. This was of course not music to the ears of FIL's children but his choice at least the inheritance would/ might have gone to the grandchildren IF the property was solely in FIL's name.

However she wanted a property he couldn't afford outright even with the house proceeds (different area), he couldn't get a mortgage due to his age and retirement income and so he asked us for a huge loan which would have wiped out our savings!

So it never happened and they split up. He's spending the proceeds of the house sale on having a very good life which is totally up to him - there won't be an inheritance but that's up to him, at least he hasn't handed it plus all DH and my savings over to a transparent gold digger!

We have this provision, tenants in common, land registry etc. she cannot sell without the other owners permission which would you’ve you and your sibling

So if he died, I would need to do something? What would I do? It wouldn’t be automatic?

So if she decided to sell, the estate agents/solicitors etc would inform us?

It's done as part of dealing with the will by a named executor(s). The charge and change of ownership gets notified to land registry and the property will need all signatories to be involved in a future sale. He will have the same protection to live there should she die first. Her heirs will own her half but can't make him move out or sell either. They get their half when he passes.

She is likely to immediately try to make sure she keeps the whole value for herself and her grown up children as soon as my dad dies, it he were to go first. Is there something which safeguards against this in the current assessment? Or is there something I can do to safeguard it, or something I need to do at the time of his death?
They are indeed buying the house between them, 50/50, tenants in common.
He has made my brother the executor, not me.

Once he dies, you would become a co-owner and would be registered as such at the Land Registry. When the house is sold in the future the solicitor dealing with the sale would have to pass on your share to you.

Tenants in common means she owns half. Upon his death she will not own anything more than that as his half is now owned by his named heirs but they need to wait until her death most likely to receive their half as she has use of house to live in. And the reverse, his home is protected too.

Thanks for this. Its likely she will cut off contact with us once our dad dies. We wouldn’t know if she came to sell. Would a solicitor have to contact us anyway, so it doesn’t rely on her getting in touch?
Also, can she change her will/my dads will to bypass any of this? How can we safeguard against that? Do we just have to keep her sweet and hope she allows us our share?

You seem to be missing the point that several people have made. If they are joint tenants then the property cannot be sold without the consent of both parties. If you inherit your dad's half then you should make sure you are registered at the Land Registry as the other joint tenant. Then she will be unable to sell it without your consent.

If she nevertheless tries to sell it then it will become obvious to the solicitor acting for her that you need to be involved. He will be able to contact you via whatever address you have registered at the Land Registry, so make sure you keep it up to date.

Did your Mum leave a Will. I believe you can get a Will rewritten.
Think you’d be better off taking your Dad to a solicitor to find out what’s the best thing for what is basically your & your siblings inheritance, before he buys this house.

Tenants of common backed up by a Deed of Trust registered at the Land Registry.

Yes - the solicitor would need you to sign.

She can’t change your dad’s will. If he’s left you his 50% share nothing she can do to change that.

Just to note that as they’re not yet married, their wills will need changing (unless specifically done in expectation of the marriage) - getting married nulls previously made wills.

You would hear from the Land Registry of any attempts to sell it and will be able to vetoe them. They should know about your interest in the property but you could check with them to be sure.

You can register with the Land Registry so you will be notified of any activity on the property, you can do this for any property.
https://propertyalert.landregistry.gov.uk/
Presumably this would alert you if the tenancy was changed to a joint tenancy.

Another one saying that unless the wills state that they are being made in anticipation of marriage they will become null and void on marriage and she will cop for the lot.

You need to make sure that the solicitor has done this.

Is there any reason why you think she would cut you off and try to take everything?

Irrespective of anything else if you buy a property as tenants in common then the share passes to either the beneficiaries of your will OR under the intestacy rules