6min 31 seconds - parking fine.

[Deftandglory]

I went to pick up my son from a pub in a quiet town at 9.30 pm. The town is pedestrianised so I drove into car park with 24 hour charges. Empty car park
Knew I wouldn’t be long and thought the grace period was 10mins ( it is, but for returning once paid).
Got a fine for £60 - appealed on the grace period - went to £100 and now £170 with legal fees.

Apparently it is quite likely it will go to court via a mass booking system by the solicitors. And as the grace period for buying a ticket is 5 mins I have breeched the conditions .
Court or pay up?

Given the contents of the government's consultation earlier this year, I'm afraid you are going to be disappointed. The draft code allowed car parks using ANPR to charge anyone who stayed more than 5 minutes without paying and set the same consideration periods as the current industry Code of Practice (i.e. 5 minutes other than in free car parks with more than 500 spaces). The charge for overstaying would be independent of the length of the overstay - you would be charged the same for 1 minute or 24 hours. The draft code suggested slightly lower penalties than parking companies currently charge, but the consultation suggests they are going to abandon this and use the current industry cap (£100 with a 40% reduction for payment within 14 days).

The grace period is irrelevant to you. It exists to allow people to enter the carpark and leave without charge if they can't find a space. You found a space, used it and left without paying.

The grace period is not five minutes free parking.

It is exactly free parking in effect.

Although I didn’t “park” ,I waited in the car. I didn’t even use a space actually as there were two cars in the whole place. They aren’t penalising me for that even though that’s not allowed either.
It’s just a bit if land some greedy bastard is using the letter of law to extort money. They could easily say “don’t worry it’s only a minute”.

It is exactly free parking in effect.

No, it isn't. If it was five minutes free parking, the sign would say 'Five Minutes Free Parking'.

It's five minutes to find a space or leave.

Although I didn’t “park” ,I waited in the car. I didn’t even use a space actually as there were two cars in the whole place.

Right, but it's a car park. It's not a 'Deftandglory waiting zone'. You admit that you had no intention of using and paying for the only service they provide.

It’s just a bit if land some greedy bastard is using the letter of law to extort money. They could easily say “don’t worry it’s only a minute”.

They can't though, can they, otherwise the place would be full of people using it for pick ups and drop offs all day and night. And where do you draw the line? A minute? Two minutes? Three and a half? Who pays for someone to deal with all the paperwork/cancelations of the "Don't worry it's only a minute" tickets?

If you want to cut about acting like the rules don't apply to you, that's fine. But moaning when you get caught out is a bad look.

"It is exactly free parking in effect."

If you consider £170 "free".

There were signs up telling you what the penalty charge was and so it was quite a risk you took to save a few pounds.

The irony is you are so angry about how principle of them " exploiting you" with outrageous costs, having yourself tried exploiting the rules for "free parking".

No I don't think it's reasonable. Much like I don't think £4,000 is reasonable for a Chanel handbag - so you know what? I don't buy them.

OP was aware of the terms of the car park and associated penalty charges. She used the car park now owes the £60 + additional costs.

Very simple.

"They could easily say “don’t worry it’s only a minute"

Why should they?

They are running a business. You do realise that a private car park is not a public service right?

There was a loss of earning though because you used the facility and didn’t pay. You have 5 mins to find a space and get a ticket, you found a space and didn’t get a ticket. Why would you think you wouldn’t get a fine?

It’s not 1 minute over, it’s six minutes over.

And more than that: you deliberately entered and used the car park facilities with no intention of paying.

You weren’t a customer of the car park that went slightly over their allotted time. You wilfully used private facilities with no intention of paying.

I’ve managed to screw up car parking multiple times over the years and made some ridiculous errors of judgement/oversights. The fines are heavy and it’s frustrating. But as a car park user I know that I’ll get a fine if I don’t comply with the conditions. And I’d never dream of thinking I could just use a 24/7 car park for free.

‘It’s only a minute’ would apply to paying customers, not sure if that would work or not. You didn’t pay so you were 6 minutes with no ticket

Just pay up OP. You took a risk and got caught, and now you're trying to defend yourself when there is no defence.

Morning, I had a very recent parking dispute within the same 'legal issues' topic, look it up on here. The company quashed it when I appealed to POPLA. Mine was plain sailing tho, tried doing for me for over an hour when I was 24 mins.
So the fact that it never got quashed when it went to POPLA, isn't a good sign. I'd just pay as it will only increase more, and despite the very limited time you was there, you still didn't pay for parking which goes against their terms and conditions. I only think people stand a good chance of winning if it's obvious that you didn't break any terms and conditions, despite the tiny amount of time, it still mounts to you not paying for parking in the first place.
They are hounds and will not stop, threatened me with court and bayliffs.
POPLA overturned nearly half of appeals last year.

I'd tell them to take me to court for it personally as most of them don't bother going that far.

In some cases five minutes would not be long enough to read the terms and conditions and purchase a ticket or drive away, and you were only six minutes. A lot of car parks seems to have suspiciously poor 5G, for starters.

RTFT.
It wasn’t the pub’s car park.

If their appeal panel is POPLA they may be BPA members and breaching their own code of practice in not having a ten minute grace period.

Before you do anything, go on the MSE parking Forums as they really know their stuff. Don't listen to the doormats on here.

How much would it have cost to park the car for an hour? A couple of quid?

You were being tight and it’s backfired 🤷‍♀️

Lots of cowboy parking operator's monkeys posting today.

You tried to avoid paying a fee to someone who is running a business to make money, with significant overheads. It did not work.
You admit you overstayed and were in that place.

So pay the fine and learn to pay your way.

And yes, get it wrong and it hurts financially. However, those high financial penalties are to put off chancers like you. You cannot blame the business running the car park - take your own responsibility.

Literally just took me two mins to read this - second paragraph says “as long as you pay for the full period”. Screenshots are from MSE.

Ultimately parking companies can say whatever shit they like as contract law overrides it. You have to be able to decide to not pay and drive away and to have time to do that. Just because you come into the car park you don't have to pay. In some car parks it has taken me more than five minutes to drive around and not find a space and drive out again. And the screenshots are from articles, not from the parking forums.

Have a read though this, OP @Deftandglory , it may be helpful.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

I'm afraid this is wrong.

The grace period is at the end of the parking period. The period at the start is the consideration period and is time to allow the user to find a space, check the conditions and pay. There is now a unified code of practice that applies whichever association the operator belongs to. That sets the minimum consideration at 5 minutes other than for large free car parks. So no, they are not in breach of their own code of practice.

You do indeed have to be able to decide not to pay and drive away. That is the reason there is a 5 minute consideration period. The government intends to introduce its own code of practice which will have the force of law. The draft that went for consultation also set this period at 5 minutes (other than for car parks with more than 500 spaces where parking for at least the first hour is free - the consideration period for these is 10 minutes).

Thanks for the clarification - that's helpful.

Oh give over. It’s was an empty car park in a run down town. The operator who owns the land hasn’t lost a thing.
I wasn’t “ being tight” .a) didn’t think to buy at a ticket at 9pm ( most only charge up to 6pm) and b) no point in paying for an hours parking when I was going to be 5mins (or sadly 6 1/2.

It’s the pettiness. As people have pointed out a pub or shop would most likely let you off if you explained.

And literally right outside were double yellows. Illegal to park on but I’d have “ got away” without paying or penalty.
I didn’t want to be that dick that people had to drive round,