6min 31 seconds - parking fine.

[Deftandglory]

I went to pick up my son from a pub in a quiet town at 9.30 pm. The town is pedestrianised so I drove into car park with 24 hour charges. Empty car park
Knew I wouldn’t be long and thought the grace period was 10mins ( it is, but for returning once paid).
Got a fine for £60 - appealed on the grace period - went to £100 and now £170 with legal fees.

Apparently it is quite likely it will go to court via a mass booking system by the solicitors. And as the grace period for buying a ticket is 5 mins I have breeched the conditions .
Court or pay up?

I agree to an extent but the situation that just came to mind is when I was driving back from Manchester, the rain got so heavy that it was sloshing in waves over the central reservation and my wipers couldn’t keep up with the spray from the lorries. I pulled into the next services and every space was full, so had to keep driving. It’s about the flow, have a rest and keep moving on.

See I’d be the same as you, except I would’ve paid the parking fee when I parked as the thought of a fine would stress me out! We all know what these companies are like and it won’t make any difference how empty the car park was.
Also, nobody mentioned calling the son and telling him to hurry up if OP wanted to avoid being over the 5 mins!

I don't think you can pay and then appeal? As once you have paid that is classed as accepting liability - guilty is it not?
What's the point in appealing if you are just going to pay anyway? Makes no sense

“No wonder these private parking companies do what they do, if people
pay up so readily.”

As I recall there was a court case about these kind of parking charges and whether there should be a link to show consequential loss or whether published terms and circumstances editions and penalties charges set out therein were reasonable.

It came out in the parking enforcement companies favour.

This being the case, you can choose to accept their terms or conditions or not and park somewhere else ( perhaps at less convenience).

OP attempted to exploit loopholes and grace periods put in place to protect drivers attempting to use and pay fairly for parking services and all for the sake of saving a few pounds.

She is free to get legal advice on how to proceed and their are websites dedicated to these kinds of issues but recognising that in these particular circumstances ( and case law being what it is) there is limited prospects of success does not mean people are " pushovers"

There was indeed - Beavis vs Parking Eye. Mr Beavis left his car in a free car park for 3 hours, ignoring 20 reasonably large, prominent and legible noticeboards stating that the maximum stay was 2 hours and thereafter a charge of £85 would be payable. Mr Beavis ignored demands for payment, so Parking Eye took him to court. The judge upheld the charge. Mr Beavis appealed and the Court of Appeal also upheld the charge. Mr Beavis then took the matter to the Supreme Court and lost again.

It is still possible to contest a charge on the grounds that signage was insufficient or unclear, or that you did not break the rules, or that you had a genuine reason for the contravention such as a medical emergency, or that there were other issues such as the payment machines being faulty. Going to court on other grounds is likely to fail, leaving you having to pay the parking company's court fees as well as the charge.

Oh they’ve been “looking into” this for years.

bizarre analogy with shop lifting

I am afraid you are £170 worse off and there’s no way round it op

why were you waiting? Was your son late coming out or you early?

We live in sad times where you can't hang around in an empty car park for 6 mins to pick someone up.

This made me laugh!

My shop lifting comparison was about the excessive penalties involved. Council owned car parking is capped at £45 a ticket initially.

I am law abiding. Quite happy to pay when it's a legitimate level of penalty. A minute and a half over free is ridiculous. Should have stayed the night to get my money's worth.
Had I known it was 5 mins I would have driven out and back in again.

So what have you decided to do?

appealing was pointless, but you know that now, so hopefully - you’ll just pay and know for the future.

your council is capped at that

not mine! £60 is pay within 14 days

"Had I known it was 5 mins I would have driven out and back in again".

"Quite happy to pay"

If the latter were true then this thread wouldn't exist..🤔

It has been said many times here and elsewhere. It is not a fine whether you wish to use the terminology or not. It is a speculative invoice. Only the Police and traffic wardens can give a fine
Money Supermarket is good for infomation. Also try an appeal to POPLA.
There is a website called Pepipoo which has lots of expert advice.
Or try Parking Cowboys- although not sure if it is still operational
Just do not ignore it

Many people say 'just pay up' but these companies have been shown to be unfair at best and money grabbers at worst. People pay up because they can't be doing with the hassle and that's quite understandable.
Good luck OP

I’d pay it, today, and forget all about it.
Digging your heels in out of anger will just end up costing you more and more money.

Appeal on what grounds? OP used the five minute grace period for finding a space (even though the car park was empty) and didn't purchase a ticket for the time she parked there. The penalty charge is now heading to court anyway, it seems.

Appeal that 5 minute grace period is too low. I’ve taken more than 5 minutes parking up, walking to the machine. Chances are it is pay by an app you might not have on your phone already so you have to download, register, put all your details in and pay for the session. That all takes more than 5 minutes. Usually grace periods are 10-15 minutes. Certainly at the places I pick my son up from it is 15-20 mins.

OP won't get anywhere with that.

The time between the driver entering the car park and being deemed to have entered into a contract with the parking operator is known as the consideration period. Other than for large free car parks (more than 500 vehicles), the minimum consideration period is 5 minutes. The driver must pay if they have stayed more than 5 minutes.

It must be remembered that the consideration period is not a free period of parking. If OP had paid and the parking company had then charged her, she may have been able to argue that the consideration period was insufficient. However, as she did not pay, she cannot make that argument.

I wouldn't really describe it as a speculative invoice. Since the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and the decision of the Supreme Court in Beavis vs Parking Eye, it is an invoice. There is nothing speculative about it.

OP does not appear to have any basis for an appeal to POPLA. As she stayed in the car park for more than 5 minutes, she entered into a contract with the parking operator and was required to pay. She did not do so.

But I’m pretty sure that when these things go to arbitration grace period is one of these things that get looked at. I think there’s a case to argue 5 mins is too low.

but regardless speaking to the pub and explaining what happened in that she want just parking there, she was picking someone up is likely to result in then cancelling the ticket. As I said, when I happened to me and I overstayed the grace period by 1 minute when picking my son up I just called Uk the company and explained and they just cancelled it. Worth just simply asking.

To clarify I think a fine/penalty/invoice is excessive for being 1min 31 seconds over. That’s why I don’t want to pay. Not the idea of being fined for overstaying.

It’s especially annoying as I could have driven in and out without a charge ( the car park was empty, I didn’t leave the car). I didn’t deprive the car park owner of his livelihood as in the example a PP gave.

Read the OP. She has already appealed on the grace period and failed.

I'm afraid the courts would not consider the original £60 penalty to be excessive. The increase for failure to pay promptly would also not be considered excessive. I'm afraid that all you are doing by not paying is increasing the amount you will have to pay. If this does go to court, the parking company will win and they will be able to add their court fees and interest to the amount you owe.

You are correct. Neither the company or POPLA upheld my request to appeal.
By which time the fine became £100.

Obviously the car park operators don’t care. They will make more than an hours ticket . The onus is on me to argue it legally ,I can’t
However it’s an excessive penalty for a minor infringement. Extortion.

I mean it’s same penalty as if I stayed the whole 24 hours where quite rightly I would have been taking up a space multiple people could have used .

It costs the parking company the same to issue an invoice and get payment from you regardless of whether you overstay by 1 minute or 24 hours. If they invoiced you at a level you would consider reasonable for a short overstay, they would make a loss on the deal. The notices in the car park would have made it clear that the charge for overstaying or non-payment was £60. You stayed long enough to form a contract so you are liable to this charge. It really is that simple, I'm afraid. I get that you don't like it, but you broke the rules so you have to pay the charge.

Yes I get that but who knew the consideration period and grace period were different?
I think it’s unfair - theres no difference to the car park owner. I hope the government do something- I know it’s due for debate in February.