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Father who lives abroad has applied for joint custody

207 replies

Custodyapplication · 22/09/2025 13:25

DC is 4 and has never lived with his father as he moved back to his home country before DC was born and only had a few visits with father. Had no contact for the majority of the 4 years and none for 2+ years. Just received a letter that was addressed to my previous address which is another language but tried to interpret it and it says he’s applied for joint custody and there’s a court appointment next month in his home country which I’m supposed to attend. Child is disabled (father not aware of this) and there’s no way I’ll be able to take them to another country or get a babysitter to go and I have no idea who to contact/can’t speak the language. What will likely happen from this? Father has had no interest and was abusive/ controlling and seemed to be very jealous of DC, so I’m very worried about if child will have to spend time with him. This has come after an CMS application was done 3 and half years ago through REMO (intentional one) and has recently had an update on to say it’s progressing in his country so I assume that’s why he’s suddenly applied for joint custody.

OP posts:
Agapornis · 24/09/2025 10:39

"he told me shortly after DC birth that he had already written his will to exclude DC as they are family properties and he wanted them to remain in his family and he does not consider DC to be a part of his family"

Funny that he said that because it's pretty much impossible to disinherit a child in France. They have Forced Heirship with a Children's Reserve (Réserve Héréditaire) - if someone has children, they all get a portion. They don't have testamentary freedom like in the UK.
Unless he has another citizenship (eg UK), in which case he can choose to apply the inheritance laws of that nationality.

Have a look here
https://www.kentingtons.com/news-blog/inheritance-succession/french-forced-heirship-rules/#:~:text=French%20%E2%80%9Cforced%20heirship%E2%80%9D%20rules

French Inheritance Tax

How French forced heirship rules affect estate planning

Find out what are the essentials of these “forced heirship” are in France and what it means for the planning of your estate.

https://www.kentingtons.com/news-blog/inheritance-succession/french-forced-heirship-rules#:~:text=French%20%E2%80%9Cforced%20heirship%E2%80%9D%20rules

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/09/2025 10:49

Custodyapplication · 24/09/2025 10:22

Yes I do think it would be of benefit for DC to have dual citizenship in case they would like to spend time in France/EU when they’re older.

The child maintenance amount would likely be very little as the father had a low income and likely still does, but he does own multiple properties - which he told me shortly after DC birth that he had already written his will to exclude DC as they are family properties and he wanted them to remain in his family and he does not consider DC to be a part of his family.

I’m not totally against the father having supervised visits, and in the beginning I very much tried to encourage this as I thought it was important for DC, but I do not think he would be able to appropriately care for DC or that his motives are good and the few visits he has had have not gone well.

Do you already have a declaration of parentage in the UK? Is this something you needed to do to start the international child support application?

This is actually really interesting to me from a legal perspective because there are so many permutations.

The starting point for you is that he is not on the birth certificate and does not have parental responsibility, but you want him to be recognised as your child's biological father for the purposes of child support and possible other benefits.

It seems like the ideal situation for you would be for him to be formally recognised as your child's father by France, but stay off the birth certificate and not have parental responsibility in the UK. This way you would retain full decision making power in respect of your child until they are a legal adult, but the father would still have an obligation to pay maintenance (whether or not it can be enforced in practice is another matter), and your child would get the full benefits of being recognised as the child of a French citizen, namely French/EU citizenship and the right to inherit.

Now, with regards to establishing paternity where the father contests it, I believe the situation is broadly the same in the UK and France. Basically, you can name someone as your child's father even if he is not on the birth certificate for the purposes of your maintenance claim, and the father can either acknowledge paternity or contest it. If he contests it, the court will most likely order a DNA test. If he refuses to cooperate and do the DNA test, the court may make an adverse inference against him, that is to say they may choose to assume from his refusal to do the DNA test that he is the father and is trying to evade his legal responsibilities. Because if you do not wish to pay child support and you genuinely believe you are not the father, or may not be the father, why wouldn't you do the DNA test which might prove you are not the father and absolve you of any further responsibility?

It would be more advantageous for you if he had to do a court ordered DNA test in France, because that would establish a filial link which would be recognised by the French state, giving your child their full rights as a French citizen, without giving the father parental responsibility in the UK.

However, that isn't taking into account the logistics of getting your child to take a DNA test in France, which may be difficult for you depending on your finances and what sort of disability your child has.

In fact, a better outcome for you would be for him to either acknowledge paternity in France or for the French court to make an adverse inference against him and assume that he is the father based on his conduct. Perhaps the fact that he has filed an application for joint custody might be enough for the French state to consider that he has acknowledged paternity. That would be fantastic news for you because it would mean that his silly game playing has well and truly bitten him on the arse.

If the French state recognises the filial link between them, he will be legally your child's father whether he considers your child to be part of his family or not, and they cannot be disinherited. He can write whatever he likes in his will, but if your child does not get their legal share of his estate when he dies, the French court will have to disregard the will so your child can inherit their fair share. So quite apart from the citizenship issue, it is worth keeping close enough tabs on this man in the long term to make sure you become aware as soon as possible if he dies.

He really has been very silly. If he didn't want to leave your child a share of his properties in his will, he should have kept his mouth shut, paid maintenance without you needing to make a claim, and hoped that the French authorities never became aware of your child's existence.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/09/2025 10:55

spicetails · 24/09/2025 10:33

It’s pretty obvious he’s only doing this because he doesn’t want to pay child support so he’s using legal system to harass.

I think he may come to regret that.

AnSolas · 24/09/2025 11:08

MissScarletInTheBallroom its likely that the French courts will accept a DNA test from a UK based company provided it can prove they meet international standards and could provide french and english certified copies of the results. Eg. I am sure that the psssport offices deal with DNA evidence for proof etc so there will be a way to validate UK test results.

spicetails · 24/09/2025 11:25

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/09/2025 10:55

I think he may come to regret that.

Fingers crossed

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/09/2025 11:33

AnSolas · 24/09/2025 11:08

MissScarletInTheBallroom its likely that the French courts will accept a DNA test from a UK based company provided it can prove they meet international standards and could provide french and english certified copies of the results. Eg. I am sure that the psssport offices deal with DNA evidence for proof etc so there will be a way to validate UK test results.

Hopefully. You'd think there would be a way to handle cross border DNA testing without one person needing to travel abroad.

But it would be even better if the French court decided that the fact that he tried to make a shared custody application is proof enough that he is the father.

Custodyapplication · 24/09/2025 11:59

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/09/2025 10:49

Do you already have a declaration of parentage in the UK? Is this something you needed to do to start the international child support application?

This is actually really interesting to me from a legal perspective because there are so many permutations.

The starting point for you is that he is not on the birth certificate and does not have parental responsibility, but you want him to be recognised as your child's biological father for the purposes of child support and possible other benefits.

It seems like the ideal situation for you would be for him to be formally recognised as your child's father by France, but stay off the birth certificate and not have parental responsibility in the UK. This way you would retain full decision making power in respect of your child until they are a legal adult, but the father would still have an obligation to pay maintenance (whether or not it can be enforced in practice is another matter), and your child would get the full benefits of being recognised as the child of a French citizen, namely French/EU citizenship and the right to inherit.

Now, with regards to establishing paternity where the father contests it, I believe the situation is broadly the same in the UK and France. Basically, you can name someone as your child's father even if he is not on the birth certificate for the purposes of your maintenance claim, and the father can either acknowledge paternity or contest it. If he contests it, the court will most likely order a DNA test. If he refuses to cooperate and do the DNA test, the court may make an adverse inference against him, that is to say they may choose to assume from his refusal to do the DNA test that he is the father and is trying to evade his legal responsibilities. Because if you do not wish to pay child support and you genuinely believe you are not the father, or may not be the father, why wouldn't you do the DNA test which might prove you are not the father and absolve you of any further responsibility?

It would be more advantageous for you if he had to do a court ordered DNA test in France, because that would establish a filial link which would be recognised by the French state, giving your child their full rights as a French citizen, without giving the father parental responsibility in the UK.

However, that isn't taking into account the logistics of getting your child to take a DNA test in France, which may be difficult for you depending on your finances and what sort of disability your child has.

In fact, a better outcome for you would be for him to either acknowledge paternity in France or for the French court to make an adverse inference against him and assume that he is the father based on his conduct. Perhaps the fact that he has filed an application for joint custody might be enough for the French state to consider that he has acknowledged paternity. That would be fantastic news for you because it would mean that his silly game playing has well and truly bitten him on the arse.

If the French state recognises the filial link between them, he will be legally your child's father whether he considers your child to be part of his family or not, and they cannot be disinherited. He can write whatever he likes in his will, but if your child does not get their legal share of his estate when he dies, the French court will have to disregard the will so your child can inherit their fair share. So quite apart from the citizenship issue, it is worth keeping close enough tabs on this man in the long term to make sure you become aware as soon as possible if he dies.

He really has been very silly. If he didn't want to leave your child a share of his properties in his will, he should have kept his mouth shut, paid maintenance without you needing to make a claim, and hoped that the French authorities never became aware of your child's existence.

I’m not 100% sure I know what a declaration of parentage is, but I don’t believe we have that. For the CM application I did have to write and sign a statement saying that he is the father.

Is there a public record of deaths in France? I doubt anyone in his family would notify me if he died and he does not keep in contact with anyone that I’m in contact with for me to find out that way.

OP posts:
Agapornis · 24/09/2025 12:14

Yes there is a public record of deaths - the Fichier des personnes décédées (Register of Deceased Persons). Freely available without registering.
https://www.data.gouv.fr/datasets/fichier-des-personnes-decedees/

Fichier des personnes décédées

https://www.data.gouv.fr/datasets/fichier-des-personnes-decedees

JFDIYOLO · 24/09/2025 12:27

Consult a solicitor immediately.

My gut reaction would be -

Don't go.

Especially don't take your child.

And never send your child to travel there, alone or allow him / his family members to come and collect him without you.

Is this a country where women are second class citizens?
Where women and children are property? Where sons are more valued?

It might be an idea to prepare full information about your child's diagnosis, treatment, special needs, medication, the time and work it might take for day to day care, educational requirements, equipment etc. Professional advice on whether it's safe or even possible to travel.

And how much it all costs. He may have a nasty shock in store.

All the best.

getsomehelp · 24/09/2025 12:58

Custodyapplication · 24/09/2025 10:22

Yes I do think it would be of benefit for DC to have dual citizenship in case they would like to spend time in France/EU when they’re older.

The child maintenance amount would likely be very little as the father had a low income and likely still does, but he does own multiple properties - which he told me shortly after DC birth that he had already written his will to exclude DC as they are family properties and he wanted them to remain in his family and he does not consider DC to be a part of his family.

I’m not totally against the father having supervised visits, and in the beginning I very much tried to encourage this as I thought it was important for DC, but I do not think he would be able to appropriately care for DC or that his motives are good and the few visits he has had have not gone well.

If his claim for contact goes anywhere, it means he has legally admitted he is the father.
He can write all the wills in the world, but in France you cannot disinherit your children, they are legally entitled to equal parts. (I live in France ) more or less.
So another tack on this is to reply via lawyer, thank you for getting in contact & to remember that DS is legally one if his “héritiers”.
If this us led by his parents they may well blanche

getsomehelp · 24/09/2025 12:58

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TizerorFizz · 24/09/2025 13:00

Parentage is on the birth cert. op is saying who the father is but he’s not on the birth cert. So he doesn’t have the same rights as a dad who is. Op could consider a Prohibitive Steps Order but would need a solicitor to recommend this and whether it’s needed after just a court letter.

Too many responses seem to think French law will trump English law in this case. Dad is not on birth cert. child resides here and is British. Whatever their Send needs are - doesn’t matter. This isn’t a case that’s going anywhere. A French court doesn’t trump child’s rights to be here with OP. Op just needs to consult a uk family solicitor that knows about French family courts.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/09/2025 13:20

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This approach is a good idea but I would be tempted to do it in two steps.

Step 1:

Hello Twatty Ex, as you know, you aren't listed as John-Peter's father on his birth certificate as you left me when I was pregnant and were not present at the registration of his birth. On what basis are you now making a claim for shared custody before the French courts? Am I to understand that you have made a voluntary "reconnaissance de paternité" to establish legal filiation? Because obviously no court will grant you shared custody of a child unless you have some documentary evidence that the child is yours.

Then if she receives a reply confirming that he does acknowledge paternity, proceed to step two.

Step 2:

Hello again Twatty Ex. Thank you for confirming that you acknowledge paternity. Now John-Peter can get a French birth certificate, ID card and passport and will be entitled to his legal share of the inheritance when you die. As for the shared custody application, as you know John-Peter is resident in the UK and has been since birth, which means the French courts have no jurisdiction to decide where he lives or with which parent. If you really are serious about wanting shared custody, you will need to apply for a visa to live in the UK, move close to where I live and where John-Peter is at school, and then apply to the UK courts for parental responsibility before applying to change his residency arrangements. None of this affects your legal obligation to financially provide for your child. I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

localnotail · 24/09/2025 13:30

I would ignore it, he should apply in the UK and send the letter in English.
French court cant make you do anything.

Thechaseison71 · 24/09/2025 13:34

AnSolas · 24/09/2025 09:46

@MissScarletInTheBallroom my point is that the OP should not ignore the letter. She needs to establish if it is from the French court system and if it is to get proper legal advice.

Informing the French court system that the child has always lived in the UK may be the quickest and fastest way to stop any French court case rather trying to unwind a process started by the Ex.

The fact that he left the UK without establishing even a basic right to be on the birth cert strongly indicates that his objective is to force the OP to give up the claim for child support.

The child custody will remain with in the UK court system and the Ex would (as you say ) have to get the UK courts to make a ruling on what is in the best interest of the child. The fact that the child is young, has a disability, and (I assume) cant speak french would make it highly unlikely that even a short visit to France would be likely approved and that contact would be restricted to UK locations.

Actually he hasn't got any " rights" to be on the birth certificate.

Thechaseison71 · 24/09/2025 13:36

JFDIYOLO · 24/09/2025 12:27

Consult a solicitor immediately.

My gut reaction would be -

Don't go.

Especially don't take your child.

And never send your child to travel there, alone or allow him / his family members to come and collect him without you.

Is this a country where women are second class citizens?
Where women and children are property? Where sons are more valued?

It might be an idea to prepare full information about your child's diagnosis, treatment, special needs, medication, the time and work it might take for day to day care, educational requirements, equipment etc. Professional advice on whether it's safe or even possible to travel.

And how much it all costs. He may have a nasty shock in store.

All the best.

Edited

Did you not read the posts? Country is France

AnSolas · 24/09/2025 16:47

Thechaseison71 · 24/09/2025 13:34

Actually he hasn't got any " rights" to be on the birth certificate.

If he is the father of the child he has a right but no obligation to be named on the birth cert.

The fact that he left the country before the birth indicates his priority was not being recognised as the childs father.

Thechaseison71 · 24/09/2025 16:50

AnSolas · 24/09/2025 16:47

If he is the father of the child he has a right but no obligation to be named on the birth cert.

The fact that he left the country before the birth indicates his priority was not being recognised as the childs father.

He can't add himself to it very easily without the mother agreeing and being physicallypresent when registering. Would have to go through a lot of palaver so not an automatic right.

I personally think it was better when unmarried fathers did not get PR just by being on the birth certificate