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Father who lives abroad has applied for joint custody

207 replies

Custodyapplication · 22/09/2025 13:25

DC is 4 and has never lived with his father as he moved back to his home country before DC was born and only had a few visits with father. Had no contact for the majority of the 4 years and none for 2+ years. Just received a letter that was addressed to my previous address which is another language but tried to interpret it and it says he’s applied for joint custody and there’s a court appointment next month in his home country which I’m supposed to attend. Child is disabled (father not aware of this) and there’s no way I’ll be able to take them to another country or get a babysitter to go and I have no idea who to contact/can’t speak the language. What will likely happen from this? Father has had no interest and was abusive/ controlling and seemed to be very jealous of DC, so I’m very worried about if child will have to spend time with him. This has come after an CMS application was done 3 and half years ago through REMO (intentional one) and has recently had an update on to say it’s progressing in his country so I assume that’s why he’s suddenly applied for joint custody.

OP posts:
OVienna · 22/09/2025 20:31

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 22/09/2025 20:17

I agree it would be useful for the OP to get legal advice from a family solicitor in the UK, preferably one with specific experience in cross-border children issues. This is going to be way beyond the average high street family solicitor's pay grade.

However, I am not so sure that responding to the French court is wise.

The father has sent the OP a letter in a language she does not speak, to an address she does not reside at, demanding that she attend a court hearing in a country which has no jurisdiction over her child's residency arrangements. Even if this man were formally recognised as the child's father in France, which as far as the OP is aware, he is not, the child's residency arrangements are none of the French state's bloody business because the child is resident in the UK and has been since birth.

The father has no proof the letter has been received, and if he does continue to pursue this, the French authorities would first of all have to find the OP, and serve a notice on her at her correct address. Acknowledging receipt of the letter only informs him of her whereabouts.

Personally, in her position, I would find an experienced cross border family solicitor first to advise her of her position and help her get her ducks in a row, and only respond to the letter if the solicitor thinks it is a good idea.

As far as I am aware (IAAL, qualified in the UK and practising in France, but not in family law), it is possible for the father to have himself recognised as the child's father by the French state even without the OP's cooperation. But this would only be of any legal effect in France. In order to initiate any kind of proceedings relating to custody, he would first have to apply to the UK family court to be legally recognised as the child's father in the UK, and then he would have to apply to change the child's residency arrangements. He would need to do all of this in the UK and in English. Quite obviously he cannot have shared custody unless he moves to the UK, because the child cannot live in two places at once, and he probably cannot move to the UK post Brexit. It will be a cold day in hell before the UK family court agrees to send the child to live in France with a father he doesn't even know.

This is an absolutely idiotic way of doing things and I'm sure this man's sole intention is to try to get the OP to drop her claim for child maintenance.

How would he go about having the child recognised as his in France with no UK birth certificate with his name on it? Surely fhere is some standard of.proof. maybe the CMS claim, to be fair.

Needlesnah · 22/09/2025 20:37

Olderbadger1 · 22/09/2025 19:03

Although it might sound crazy, a family court could actually decide in his favour on the shared custody bid - there is a strong presumption that a child benefits from contact with both parents, regardless of how the absent parent has behaved. If you can, I'd strongly recommend you have a 'case review' meeting with Eight Street - they are a brilliant group of feminist lawyers who specialise in family court cases where there has been DV or coercive control, and they are also survivors of such cases so they absoilutely know their stuff. They have some expertise in international custody cases but it sounds as if you are not there yet. Reunite (mentioned upthread) are, as the name suggests, very pro contact so I wouldn't recommend them at this stage. If it does get to the international law stage, GlobalARRK are worth speaking to for general advice and support. https://www.eight-street.co.uk/contact-us/

Highlighting this post in case you missed it @Custodyapplication

HopingForTheBest25 · 22/09/2025 20:42

Not read the whole thread but if he's not on the birth certificate, there's nothing to say he's actually the father. I'd get legal advice anyway, but I'd also be inclined to do nothing that admits he is the father - this chump doesn't even know where you live, you might not have even received his letter. I'd make him fight to establish every single step, starting with proving paternity. Hopefully the cost and difficulty will deter him!

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 22/09/2025 20:47

OVienna · 22/09/2025 20:31

How would he go about having the child recognised as his in France with no UK birth certificate with his name on it? Surely fhere is some standard of.proof. maybe the CMS claim, to be fair.

In France there are essentially three ways a man can be recognised as a child's father.

  1. By being named as such on the birth certificate.
  2. If the mother names him as her child's father and he is forced to do a court ordered DNA test which proves that he is the father.
  3. If he takes steps to have himself voluntarily recognised as the child's father. In this case if the mother disputes his paternity there may be a court ordered DNA test, but in some extreme circumstances if the mother does not cooperate (for example, if she lives abroad and chooses not to and cannot be compelled to bring the child to France for a DNA test) the court may decide to take the father's word for it. I suppose the logic is that a man who knows he is not the father is unlikely to try to force the state to recognise him as such, and a woman who knows he is not the father and does not wish him to be recognised as the father would most likely cooperate with the court to do the DNA test and prove that he is not the father.

In this case the fact that the OP has made a maintenance claim would probably be considered enough evidence that he is the father if he also says that he is.

It wouldn't have any bearing on the residency arrangements though, which are still none of the French court's business.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 22/09/2025 20:49

Olderbadger1 · 22/09/2025 19:03

Although it might sound crazy, a family court could actually decide in his favour on the shared custody bid - there is a strong presumption that a child benefits from contact with both parents, regardless of how the absent parent has behaved. If you can, I'd strongly recommend you have a 'case review' meeting with Eight Street - they are a brilliant group of feminist lawyers who specialise in family court cases where there has been DV or coercive control, and they are also survivors of such cases so they absoilutely know their stuff. They have some expertise in international custody cases but it sounds as if you are not there yet. Reunite (mentioned upthread) are, as the name suggests, very pro contact so I wouldn't recommend them at this stage. If it does get to the international law stage, GlobalARRK are worth speaking to for general advice and support. https://www.eight-street.co.uk/contact-us/

You're forgetting the fact that the French family court has no jurisdiction over a child who is resident in the UK.

Custodyapplication · 22/09/2025 20:50

PrettyPickle · 22/09/2025 20:12

@Custodyapplication I also forgot to mention that that the legal documents need to be served to the correct address so you need to let them know via a solicitor that this was not the case, again highlighting the Fathers lack of knowledge of the childs situation - out of interest, prior to this court request, do you have the Fathers contact details?

I don’t have any phone numbers/social media/email contact details anymore, but do know what is likely still his address there, but he seems to be using his parents address as his official address.

OP posts:
ChristmasRager · 22/09/2025 21:05

He is not on the birth certificate and therefore doesn’t have parental responsibility. This is a farce and I think it’s safe to ignore, but for your peace of mind, speak with a lawyer. Follow ‘thelegalqueen’ on instagram. She’s brilliant

getsomehelp · 22/09/2025 21:08

Is this a bona fide court summons? or a letter from this joker ? It would have been a recorded delivery which you would have to sign for with "AR" (proof of receipt returned to them.) as it stands he/they have no proof you received the letter.
You don't just snap your fingers & get a court hearing in a month in France.
& while I would also be consulting an Franco/Anglo family lawyer. My feeling is this is all scare mongering.
He had blocked you his phone, had already scarpered at the birth, has had no contact with his child in 2 years, & doesn't even know DC is handicapped.
I don't think any court in the world would give him 50/50,

PrettyPickle · 22/09/2025 21:10

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 22/09/2025 20:17

I agree it would be useful for the OP to get legal advice from a family solicitor in the UK, preferably one with specific experience in cross-border children issues. This is going to be way beyond the average high street family solicitor's pay grade.

However, I am not so sure that responding to the French court is wise.

The father has sent the OP a letter in a language she does not speak, to an address she does not reside at, demanding that she attend a court hearing in a country which has no jurisdiction over her child's residency arrangements. Even if this man were formally recognised as the child's father in France, which as far as the OP is aware, he is not, the child's residency arrangements are none of the French state's bloody business because the child is resident in the UK and has been since birth.

The father has no proof the letter has been received, and if he does continue to pursue this, the French authorities would first of all have to find the OP, and serve a notice on her at her correct address. Acknowledging receipt of the letter only informs him of her whereabouts.

Personally, in her position, I would find an experienced cross border family solicitor first to advise her of her position and help her get her ducks in a row, and only respond to the letter if the solicitor thinks it is a good idea.

As far as I am aware (IAAL, qualified in the UK and practising in France, but not in family law), it is possible for the father to have himself recognised as the child's father by the French state even without the OP's cooperation. But this would only be of any legal effect in France. In order to initiate any kind of proceedings relating to custody, he would first have to apply to the UK family court to be legally recognised as the child's father in the UK, and then he would have to apply to change the child's residency arrangements. He would need to do all of this in the UK and in English. Quite obviously he cannot have shared custody unless he moves to the UK, because the child cannot live in two places at once, and he probably cannot move to the UK post Brexit. It will be a cold day in hell before the UK family court agrees to send the child to live in France with a father he doesn't even know.

This is an absolutely idiotic way of doing things and I'm sure this man's sole intention is to try to get the OP to drop her claim for child maintenance.

I think we are basically in agreement as I said "You should urgently reach out to a family law solicitor with experience in international custody disputes." They will know what is the best course of action given that the papers were served to the wrong address and that without them knowing this, she may then have to untangle any order they may make in her absence, as they are not aware it went to the wrong place. Its a tricky one and thats when she needs to see a specialist lawyer.

PrettyPickle · 22/09/2025 21:12

Custodyapplication · 22/09/2025 20:50

I don’t have any phone numbers/social media/email contact details anymore, but do know what is likely still his address there, but he seems to be using his parents address as his official address.

Ironically that is good as if he hasn't kept you up to date with his whereabouts, he is obviously not bothered about you being able to contact him and as you made a claim with the CMS 3.5yrs ago, this evidences this. You need to see a specialist lawyer now that does legal aid (if there is any possibility you maybe entitled to it - sorry - don't know your financial situation).

ChaliceinWonderland · 22/09/2025 21:15

Call a solicitor, happened to me. I'm waiting on cms through Remo too. I had to get a court order from a family court that stated the ds live with me and exh could not take them to his country. He threatened me with court too in his country.

The whole shebang cost me 10k as a barrister was involved.

Do not do nothing.

CameForAVacationStayedForTheRevolution · 22/09/2025 21:16

NotToday1l · 22/09/2025 15:44

Ignore it and see what happens, can you say you didn’t receive it if questioned …..who gave the letter to you?

Did you not tell him you had moved

I’d be very tempted to do this. But probably best to seek legal advice first. Can he track you down via your work, mutual friends, etc. if not how would he ever find you? Change your fb name/come off social media. Heck I’d be tempted to legally change my name by deedpoll if it would help ensure he couldn’t find me.

Florencesndzebedee · 22/09/2025 21:21

Maybe you should withdraw the REMO application so that you don’t have to have any contact.

spicetails · 22/09/2025 21:25

Given that you don’t live in France, your child diesnt live in Francexand bever has, abx thd only person living in France is the one who barely has even seen the child ig is highly unlikely that the French court has jurisdiction.

In addition this hasnt been correctly served on you, either. Sent to an old address is not deemed service in most jurisdictions.

I wouldn't respond - if you do you could potentially be then accepting the court having jurisdiction.

speak to a solicitors whi deal eith international child custody arrangements, but I really don’t think the French court will have jurisdiction and he’ll have to come to the UK courts if he wants to hash out child arrangements.

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 22/09/2025 21:36

AnSolas · 22/09/2025 15:35

The child is also French by blood and the Ex (or OP) can get a French passport too.

So having a French passport or a British passport will not make a big difference

How would dad apply for a French passport when he has no proof or paperwork to prove that the child is his?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 22/09/2025 21:39

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 22/09/2025 21:36

How would dad apply for a French passport when he has no proof or paperwork to prove that the child is his?

He can get himself recognised as the child's father by the French state (and the UK, for that matter) if he is really determined about it.

Whether the child has a French passport or not makes not a jot of difference to the custody issue.

In fact it sounds like a French passport is just about the only thing of value he could give his child.

suburberphobe · 22/09/2025 21:42

He is not on the birth certificate.

Be thankful for that. He hasn't got a leg to stand on.

OVienna · 22/09/2025 21:44

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 22/09/2025 20:47

In France there are essentially three ways a man can be recognised as a child's father.

  1. By being named as such on the birth certificate.
  2. If the mother names him as her child's father and he is forced to do a court ordered DNA test which proves that he is the father.
  3. If he takes steps to have himself voluntarily recognised as the child's father. In this case if the mother disputes his paternity there may be a court ordered DNA test, but in some extreme circumstances if the mother does not cooperate (for example, if she lives abroad and chooses not to and cannot be compelled to bring the child to France for a DNA test) the court may decide to take the father's word for it. I suppose the logic is that a man who knows he is not the father is unlikely to try to force the state to recognise him as such, and a woman who knows he is not the father and does not wish him to be recognised as the father would most likely cooperate with the court to do the DNA test and prove that he is not the father.

In this case the fact that the OP has made a maintenance claim would probably be considered enough evidence that he is the father if he also says that he is.

It wouldn't have any bearing on the residency arrangements though, which are still none of the French court's business.

That's interesting. The third point rings a bell with me and rules in other European countries now that you say it. However, this is not the case in the UK and thankfully other circs mean the French court wouldn't hace jurisdiction.

Mummyoflittledragon · 22/09/2025 21:48

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 22/09/2025 21:39

He can get himself recognised as the child's father by the French state (and the UK, for that matter) if he is really determined about it.

Whether the child has a French passport or not makes not a jot of difference to the custody issue.

In fact it sounds like a French passport is just about the only thing of value he could give his child.

The child has to be physically present to apply for the passport. He’s not getting his hands on one. And it isn’t the passport that’s of value, it’s the nationality, surely?

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 22/09/2025 21:50

I don’t think I would respond to this. But I would talk things through with a lawyer. Just ask them

  1. if you should reply and 2. What key points you need to make if so.

my (not expert) inclination is to leave it for now. It’s likely that remo claim might ask you for a dna test and this will give bim
evjdence that he is the father,
but if he has this and he comes to the uk to start court proceedings rhen then the uk family court will take things slowly and probably order indirect contact first then supervised etc. and they’ll have to work with ‘the welfare checklist’ and consider what’s in the vets interest of your son. They usually consider a relationship with a parent to be in their interest but this parent needs to be safe and able to care for them.

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 22/09/2025 21:52

5050 in different countries is ridiculous though! if your son and his dad were able to establish a loving trusting safe relationship and if your son is well enough to travel and if dad invests lots of time and money in building up a relationship with him, in the uk at first, I think the most he would get is half of school holidays if your son is able to cope with being away from home and from you (I’m not sure about the nature of his disability but this would be very important deciding factor).

AnSolas · 22/09/2025 22:27

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 22/09/2025 21:36

How would dad apply for a French passport when he has no proof or paperwork to prove that the child is his?

The right to a passport or other travel document proves the childs citizenship and family ties to the Ex and the right of the Ex to seek custody.

He has her claim for child support and the court date could be to demand a DNA test.

Remember in most Eurpoean countries the right of the child to have 2 parents is placed above the rights of a either parent.

spoonbillstretford · 23/09/2025 00:19

Bearbookagainandagain · 22/09/2025 16:49

It's not. If the father is french and is on the birth certificate, the child would then be french wherever he is born. And whether or not he has a passport.

Er, no. What the others said.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 23/09/2025 00:24

AnSolas · 22/09/2025 22:27

The right to a passport or other travel document proves the childs citizenship and family ties to the Ex and the right of the Ex to seek custody.

He has her claim for child support and the court date could be to demand a DNA test.

Remember in most Eurpoean countries the right of the child to have 2 parents is placed above the rights of a either parent.

Regardless, even if the child were living in France, a French court would not order 50:50 custody when the parents live in different countries.

And since the child lives in the UK, it doesn't matter what a French court would order.

sittingonabeach · 23/09/2025 01:07

in England you can claim CMS even if dad not on birth certificate but they can ask for DNA proof and can then be put on birth certificate.