Non molestation and child contact

[AmberV]

hi, I need advice, I issued ex parte non molestation and occupation order on 22/5, the next hearing is next Friday. Due to emotional abuse on me and 2 children and physical abuse to 9 year old son.

I’ve just heard from H solicitor, asking me to drop non mol charge and occupation order in return for giving me everything I want. He will stay away from the house for at least 6 months. However he wants contact with the children which I don’t believe I would have been able to stop contact anyway after reading this forum.

So I have 2 options, go to court Friday as arranged and then let him apply for contact and then everyone and cafcass would get involved, this concerns me as if they say children must see him on x date and they don’t want to I have to force them to if there is a court order.

Whereas option 2, can I devise a contact plan myself going by what the children ask for? That way I can say that if the children choose not to go at any time they don’t have to?

Is this contact plan something I can put together with the children myself or would I need to get a mediator involved so that it’s unbiased? or could the children’s counsellor do it as she knows them and they are comfortable with her?

TIA

so in essence you are swapping a legal framework for a voluntary agreement? what would stop him ignoring it and moving back to the house as you don’t have an occupation order?
what stops him refusing to return the children after contact as there is no Live with Order?
that said family court and CAFCASS is awful and do little to prioritise children in cases like this.
what about a compromise?
he signs over occupation of the house to you? if that’s legally possible.
could you agree a Child Arrangement Order with contact and lives with stipulated in it and a Judge signs it off. CAFCASS would not need to be involved if you both agree what an order should look like. it’s when there is disagreement they are appointed. you could agree in the order that you will make the children available and encourage them to go but will not physically force them. pick up and drop off arrangements can be included so for eg mine says he has to park outside my house in front of the ring doorbell and can’t approach the front door unless it is an emergency involving one of the children.
i would not trust an abusive man with any voluntary agreement at all.
your solicitor should know what legally can and can’t be done and i do think should be advising you better. have you got support from a local domestic abuse service?
and most importantly what do your children want? do they want to see him? do they want to do overnights or just go out for the day with him?
always be a step ahead with men like this!

You can't trust him not to be violent, why would you trust him to stick to his word?

apologies just read it’s his solicitor suggesting this not yours.
tell his solicitor no! they are trying it on. if ex is so committed to sorting this out a legal framework should be welcomed. he will agree what a child arrangement order should look like.
don’t be bullied or worried about ending up in family court and leaving yourself with no legal protection.
another thought, the assault on your son, you have reported this to the police and children’s social care as well?
that needs to be done to show you are safeguarding the children in all this.

Is this contact plan something I can put together with the children myself or would I need to get a mediator involved so that it’s unbiased?

A mediator doesn't decide what the contact arrangements should be. They help you and your ex reach an agreement. If you can agree arrangements without a mediator, you don't need one. However, given the history I agree with another poster that you should reject this and let him take you to court.

Thanks for your replies there is previous history. Sorry for the long email. I was incredibly depressed in 2023. I went to see a counsellor and within about 15 minutes of me being in there she said that I was a victim of domestic abuse, emotional and psychological. I went to the doctors and she raised it as a safeguarding issue and asked to see our two children who were seven and nine at the time. They both disclosed that Husband would shout and swear on a regular basis and our son also said he was receiving physical abuse in the form of ‘play fighting’ and son said Husband was pinching his willy. I contacted Childrens Services and the doctors raised it as a safeguarding issue. Childrens Services did a report. Husband said that it was just play fighting that I’ve got over excited and denied pinching son’s Willy. he said he would get anger management courses and go to counselling three months down the line turns out he didn’t do any of those things and things went back to how they were he didn’t stop the play fighting even though he was told to Childrens Services were involved again in 2024 when father hit sun round the head and threw him through the door. this time Husband left for four months and then said he was coming back home. I didn’t take a normal Molestation Order at that time because the children were begging me to let their dad home again and stupidly I did. He did go on counselling, he did go with anger management courses but it made no difference. The swearing and shouting was still there and he was still play fighting and hurting our son in April 2025 my nine-year-old son punched the dad in the face he said because of self defence and said that dad had punched him in the private. I got Husband to leave the house and took out a normal station order and reported it to Childrens Services for the third time on each occasion. They have been reported to the police. The schools are fully aware the doctors are fully aware.

My concern is if it goes to court and cafcass l make a decision that the children are to see him on a particular day and they don’t want to which would be understandable. How on earth am I supposed to force them to go because of that court order, that’s what worries me. Especially after reading the forum here where cafcass have come up with some of their decisions

don’t enter into mediation with an abusive man. courts would not force that at all. from your update do not withdraw from the court hearing on friday. you 100% need the protection it gives you and the children.
with that child protection history which is well documented with police and social care i would be saying contact only in a contact centre until a court decides otherwise.
my experience of CAFCASS was awful and my children will never deal with them again as they felt so let down by them.
however that’s not everyone’s experience and you may be able to ask for a local authority social worker to do a section 37 assessment rather than a section 7 CAFCASS report.
what i will say is because my position was reasonable about contact with their father i was always dealt it with fairly by the judges. i self represented and it wasn’t as hard as i thought it might be.
i was told my duty was to make the children available and encourage them to go but it was accepted at their ages i could not physically make them. it’s not like strapping a toddler into a car seat.
i also found the judges able to see through the ridiculous requests by the ex and his contradictory behaviour.
stay strong and don’t believe it trust anything he says even if it comes through his solicitor. don’t be intimidated by his solicitor promising the moon on a stick. they can suggest anything in their clients best interests as long as it’s lawful. but that doesn’t mean it’s in your or the children’s best interests.

starrypineapple Thanks so much for that advice, I really appreciate that. Just reading about the section 37, does that not look at putting a care order on the children and taking responsibility for them away from me and giving it to the local authority? Is that more if both parents are abusive?

You don't need a s37 and besides you can't ask for this the court would order it if they've significant concerns. However you're safeguarding the children so there doesn't appear any need for this route.

A section 7 can be done by a local authority if SS are involved or by CAFCASS (they call them child impact reports just to confuse matters more).

Given what you've said regarding the father of children's behaviour you absolutely can stop contact and I'd let him take it to court for a child arrangement order. After that application them there would be S7 or similar. Do not drop the non mol as this further evidences how you're trying to be protective.

You should go to the hearing. And he can take you to court if he wants.
The non mol order will be one very important piece for your evidence chain if the case goes to court.

ok i’ve misunderstood the s37 v’s s7. maybe i was thinking that the LA social workers are best placed to do the assessment due to the safeguarding concerns already established. f that can happen under s7 i still think this is better than cafcass.

Really appreciate your advice all of you. My solicitor is useless, when I was talking to him before about supervised visits in a contact centre, he goes ahh you don’t want to do that, I’m a dad, why not just let him take them to McDonald’s for a couple of hours!! I’m thinking have you actually read my reports, big mistake hiring him and he was recommended by D.V. assist!

I remember reading that your solicitor gave you some poor advice. So not saying oh you need to listen to him and just let the McDonald trips happen.
However a couple of hours in a public place to start with can sometimes be a working plan. Supervised contact in a contact centre for older kids can be quite hard and boring to be honest. It's just difficult.
I do get the safeguarding concerns so don't scrap the idea of using a center. But meanwhile if the case is going to court, as long as your children aren't refusing to see dad, it can be an option to arrange a meal or something in a public place. I.e. You drop them off in a garden centre car park, dad takes them in for a walk around and maybe drinks and a catch-up chat in the cafe. You can let your children know mummy is just outside.
This would also show the judge that you are being reasonable and supportive, you need to safeguarding your children so asking it to be supervised or in public.

I would continue with the non molestation order and the occupation order. I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. You need to do your best to safeguard your children. I think the best route in this case is court and supervised visits.

Feck ma hat do not agree to contact or to dropping the non mol.

@starrypineapple isn't entirely wrong, the LA can be asked to do the s.7 report instead of Cafcass if they have had previous involvement, and if that is on the table then I would accept it as they will then use their previous assessments to inform the recommendations.

get a new solicitor!

Lemonychocolate That’s a fair point about drop off in public space at garden centre or something , maybe I could start with contact centre for 4-6 weeks then move to that arrangement

Start with the contact centre. A contact centre generally isn't a forever option. Its a starting point. See how that goes. I
He might be inconsistent or they might see other safeguarding concerns. At least you know someone's minding your kids and observing him.

I think once this hearings over I will definitely get a new solicitor ! At least he’s not representing me in court, he’s hiring a barrister, hopefully he’s better than he is !

Ask the barrister for a recommendation of a good family/child solicitor whilst you're at it! They'll have loads of contacts.

Yes good idea will do thanks Titasaducksarse

thank you all for your support.

has anyone been to the next hearing where other party put their witness statement out? Will me and him be cross examined or do the barristers talk on our behalf? Do I need to prepare anything? I want to ask for screens in the court room too

Yes you can request special measures.

The barristers will respond on your behalf. However, if submissions aren't enough ie a written account of your position then yes you may be cross examined.

Stick with contact centre for now (if he's taking you to court, there's a chance he wouldn't bother)
But if it went through court and you haven't got contact centre or a third party supervised contact in your order a public place can be an option.
Don't show him your cards right now though. And also definitely, definitely please go ahead with getting the non mol order.

this is what my solicitor has drafted in response. So the undertakings are legally binding. He would not be able to move back into house

Notwithstanding the above, and in the interest of protecting both herself and the children from further distress and in promoting their welfare, our client is prepared to accept undertakings in lieu of proceeding with a contested hearing, subject to the following terms:

1. An undertaking by your client in the same terms as the existing non-molestation order, to remain in place for a period of six months from the date of the signing of the consent order. Should the matter proceed to a hearing, our client will seek that the existing non-molestation order be continued and extended to 12 months, particularly in view of the further disclosures made by the children since the initial hearing at which our client was unrepresented.
2. An undertaking, of at least six months, that your client, having vacated the property, shall not return to or occupy the family home and shall permit our client to continue occupying the same without interference.

so it would be as legally binding as if it went to court.

Then I could get solicitor to request within that 4 weeks at a contact centre followed by 6 months being dropped off at a public place once a week? and then review it based on what the children say and feel comfortable with after that? BUT what happens after that time, if he wants more than what the children want, could he call the shots then or would he have to apply to the courts if he wanted more than that?

or by going to court, it will be at least another 2-3 months before he would have any contact as it would take time for him to apply to the courts for contact, then I’m assuming they will want cafcass to get involved. So that will give the children a chance to have more counselling sessions too.

The other benefit from court would be that he can’t turn round to people and say I’m just being difficult not letting him see the children, it would be the courts decision what that looked like. Plus everybody that knows us as a couple/family thinks he’s the best bloke ever, his uncle going he’s such a great man, people going he’s such a good dad, saying I’ve never witnessed anything like that when we’ve been out with him and the children……

I just want to scream errr no, the person you see on the outside world is not the same person behind closed doors, it’s the person he wants you to see. And of course you wouldn’t witness any of that because he would never let you see that side of him cos he knows people would be shocked and horrified by it. That’s why I always used to try and be with other people at weekends or have loads of play dates in school holidays at home as he would never do anything with an audience.

Now with all what’s going on, maybe he is missing the children, or maybe he’s just missing DD and not DS but I think fundamentally he’s more upset and worried that by not being able to get contact, people will start to think there is more to this as otherwise I would never be able to stop him seeing the children if it were just me in this. I just don’t think he wants to lose face. Even if it’s just DD he sees, which he was pushing for before, cos then he will go, look DD wants to see me and loves me, there must be something wrong with DS or mums brainwashed DS into not seeing me. I’m still the best dad it’s my son that’s got something wrong with him and he’s stated before and I quote

“DD sees herself as my favourite and that DS feels hard done by. You have said that DS might have ADHD but not being diagnosed so might contribute to what's going on. I get frustrated and shout at them sometimes but not all the time.”

firstly it was a passing comment I made about adhd and my son cos he could not regulate his emotions but it’s no wonder now that I’ve heard all what DS has said that’s happened since H moved out. Also it’s no bloody wonder he feels hard done by when he knows he’s getting all that treatment and his sister isn’t !!

DS was actually kicking, biting and punching his sister and pinching her privates cos that was what was being done to him and he disclosed in counselling that dad only liked his sister and not him and that he knew she wasn’t getting the same treatment so he told counsellor he did it because he wanted to ‘share it out’.!!!

DD and DS used to be so close when little and I think H hated that, he created a huge divide between them so that DD ended up hating DS because of her almost daily attacks from him. Now since H has gone from the house, their fighting has stopped overnight and they are so so close now, saying I love you before bed at night, holding hands when out, the difference is incredible. Gut wrenchingly sad that it wasn’t allowed to be like this all the time.

while an undertaking does have some legal basis the only way it can be enforced is to go to court by which time he could have moved back in or refused to return one or both of one of the children.
if you had an occupation order and he tried to breach it i think the police could remove him there and then. a 6 months undertaking period will fly by.
it all feels like everyone is trying to pacify him which is not uncommon with these type of abusers. but my experience is give an inch and take a mile with this type.
children can display neurodiverse behaviour due to trauma and that could be what is happening for your son. it’s good he has counselling - he may need that for a long time.
pitting children against each other is also an abusive narcissists technique. even the child receiving the ‘preferential’ treatment is likely to be harmed by the behaviour especially as they mature and understand the difference in treatment more.
legally no one on here can tell you what to do. all i know is that i am much happier with legal orders in place even the ex breaches them all the time i can manage them long enough as soon the children will be both of an age where whatever a court or cafcass said would be irrelevant.
he is starting to push the parking outside issue and safeguards and after two breaches i have warned him, one more and i will reporting to the police as harassment (don’t want to say what he is doing exactly).
have you considered referring to your local Early Help team? that might be away to get support as a family with everything that’s going on. they won’t advise on legal matters but can look at support and services for all of you in the family and will show how you are prioritising the children’s welfare.

You could do that but I think it would be foolish. He could refuse to return your kids to you and there will be nothing you can do without going to court and having an emergency hearing.

He's an abuser. You need the weight of the court and the power of the police. Have you ever considered why he wants you to not proceed. Firstly, he's worried about his image and secondly he's worried about losing his power and control. His solicitor will write whatever he wants and yours sounds like a dick.