Childrens contact with father

[AmberV]

I have posted on here previously. I currently have a non-molestation order in place against H for emotional abuse to myself and two children and also physical abuse to our son age 9.

My solicitor is asking what I want in terms of contact. Ideally, I would want him to have no contact whatsoever with either of them, but he is saying this is unlikely to get approved. He says however that if I agreed that dad can have contact, because the children are aged 11 and 9 if they didn’t want to see their dad then they can say they don’t want to and they won’t have to be forced to.

My son does not want to see his dad however my daughter would like to have contact. I just don’t know how this will work. Will this make my son feel even worse because my daughter is seeing the dad?
Would you do a contact centre
arrangement for our daughter and her dad?

I know what will happen. Dad will lavish gifts on daughter and take her to fancy places to still get back at our son and almost let him know what he’s missing out on. He will twist it round to everyone that ‘oh it’s not me I’ve done nothing wrong because my daughter still wants to see me it’s just my son that feels hard done by.’ I know this is how he’s going to put it to people.

He is not right in the head, he has no conscience for what he’s done, no remorse, no empathy, still trying to blame everyone else for his behaviour.

As yet I have not pressed charges against him, would that be another option and would that mean he has no contact? This option would also affect us financially as if charged he would lose his job and not be able to provide child maintenance.

Please advise, I need help

Mumshotel So sorry to hear of all what’s happened to you

Hi, yes they want contact with him. I asked for a child arrangement order for supervised contact only and the court decided no direct contact at all at the moment while they do a s7 report. The police have been involved.

it’s such a trauma and not what any of us planned when we had children with these men… the added trauma of having a court not protect your children must be unbearable .

I’m waiting for a section 7 to be completed. I have stopped all direct contact for my 10yo and the Cafcass safeguarding letter supported that. My child gets so distressed visiting my ex and has had therapy and counselling. His emotional state has drastically improved since direct contact stopped and I had hoped that with the therapist and school confirming that independently along with my ex admitting abuse toward me to Cafcass and his criminal record for aggressive behaviour it would be reasonable to expect the court to support indirect contact only. Reading this thread has got me really worried now.

Can you drag it out until they are a little older and hope both children refuse to see him? What timescales does the court need?

My daughter is asking when she can see her dad, as she says none of what he did to her brother affects her, she said I know that what he’s done is wrong but he could kill a whole family and i’d still love my dad. It’s really concerning how she says this. Do you think it’s like a trauma bond? It’s so hard when one child’s been abused and the other hasn’t, they view things so differently, and he’s still creating that divide between them.

I have no idea on timescales. I truly hate all this and the position he’s put us in.

what’s a section 7 report?

A section 7 is ordered by the family court. A type of social worker will meet with you, kids and dad separately to get your views and the children’s lived experience. They then make a recommendation to the court of who the children should live with (if that’s in dispute) and what contact with the non resident parent should look like. Some people find it really helpful, others find it doesn’t reflect the true situation as they see it. I guess it depends on whether you get a decent person assessing and/or your concerns are reasonable/true/can be evidenced.

The court rely heavily on this to make a judgement and rarely deviate from what it recommends. If you don’t agree with it, you can question the author in a later hearing either yourself or through a solicitor/barrester to persuade the Judge that the recommendations are not in the children’s best interest, but you’d have ti be able to make some really good points.

They also complete safeguarding checks with children’s services and the police to highlight anything that may be relevant. My exes criminal record has been deemed relevant and was included in the initial safeguarding report that prompted the section 7 to be requested. It will be included in that report too.

who Pays for the fact finding ?

Follow Dr Charlotte Proudman
She has just published a book on family courts. Not sure what her reputation is like but she is a strong advocate for children.
But the stories she references are .... Scary.

Walkerzoo Thanks I’ll take a look.

Wish44 when did you ask for a child arrangement order, was that at a non molestation hearing you asked for that?

I did not have a non mol order as I was protected by bail conditions that said he wasn’t allowed any contact with me or the children…I applied to the family court privately ( do it online and pay about £300) for a child arrangement order to protect the children when the bail was lifted ( was advised to do so by children’s services) . Process started in January… it’s slow.

sadly the police are not going to prosecute so we will see what happens now that they are out of the picture.

Everyone here should look at the right 2 equality website, there is now an enquiry about reforms for family court and they are asking for evidence. Your awful experiences being written down may help make things better for children in the future if you share them

Because family court, caffcass and some social workers operate on the overriding assumption that 'any abuse is less damaging than a child not seeing their father' even when they are the abuser.

can you share a link please?

@mumshotel is just about right. The best advice I failed to take was from an earlier judge who, whilst willing to order a fact finding hearing, told us it would not stop contact at some level. I just wanted to do right by my grandson and thought right was on my side.

He got supervised contact which is of course the slippery slope to unsupervised. It did demonstrate doubt in the courts mind.

My objection was his criminality which was brushed aside. But 18 months on, we were back in court again when he was charged with abh and gbh. His previous offending described by the guardian as youthful indiscretion. He was in his thirties.

At 16 my gs told me he would never see his dad again and has had no contact for 6 years. He told me he saw his paternal family as acquaintances wh tolerated him. Unhappy enforced contact sadly.

Hi solicitor has just made another offer, keep non mol in place for me but release it from the children. they are trying to keep it out of court.

obviously no to that. But I was thinking as he will likely get contact anyway in a few months going by what everyone else has said . What if I propose that non mol stands as it is for me and the children until it expires end November. This would buy me more time so we can heal and children can have more counselling.

Then would I be able to get cafcass involved myself to help me put together a plan of what they think contact should look like for him going forward? Also if I put in a clause to that proposal that if anything further materialises from the childrens counselling I can say that any contact will need to be looked at again?

is that doable ?

I would not remove your children from the non-mol. They were included for a reason and removing them would give him a good point to put to a Judge “she removed me from it so obviously agrees it’s safe for them to be with me”.

Has your solicitor advised on whether they think a Judge would find your exes requests reasonable/likely to be something they would grant?

He said he thinks at the hearing on Friday as H would ask for contact, my barrister would say no then it would go to fact finding. Or he might not contest Friday but then make application through the courts for contact arrangement but then cafcass would get involved which is what I want as I want help deciding what contact should look like.

I just really need to keep the costs down as I’m struggling to pay for all this but not entitled to legal aid

If he doesn’t contest Friday, I can’t see how he’d be allowed to start a new process for access straight away and if he does, you’ll be able to highlight safeguarding concerns which would instigate Cafcass completing safeguarding checks and section 7.

If he does, can your Barrister request that a section 7 be completed before the fact finding hearing so their report and recommendations can be used to set an agreement/order that is in the best interests of the children.

thanks ThisCyanPoet I will make a note to ask barrister to do that

I was going to draft something like this

In view of recent evidence that has come to light and to ensure the safety of the children, I want the non molestation to stay in place as it stands. He will have to apply to the court for a Child Arrangements Order. In order to ensure that things are managed correctly and in the best interests of the children, I would want to get cafcass involved for their recommendations on what any future contact should look like.

I think you should reject that offer. Some of our advices/experience probably won't help your case. To be honest when I first read the thread I pictured it as father is generally very abusive, mainly to mother, while children were present and got hurt because of his abusive behaviour. The counsellor's report shows that father has deliberately abused the children, especially to the boy.
It's not a abusive ex situation, it's child abuse. I would make sure the children get the protection of a non mol order.

With the cost, is there any chance you could get legal aid?

Lemonychocolate I will keep the non mol in place and say to my solicitor he will have to apply through the courts for contact , there’s no other way. I don’t qualify for legal aid as I don’t work but still own my old house that I rent before we got family home, so I have an asset.

Can you not get legal aid on the grounds of DV? It is available if you can get someone to confirm it.

Maybe double check if you are eligible for legal aid. I didn't have an asset so don't know how it works, but I earned slightly over the income limit. And I still got it. I contributed towards the legal cost, monthly payment while the case was going on, plus a one off payment in the end, roughly 4k altogether. It was massively helpful.