Grandparents picking child up without consent from parent

[Anna713]

My son has a court order stating his daughter lives with him. His exwife has limited access, twice a week with no overnights. Her parents have stated they will pick the child up from school when they want to although my son does not want them to have contact atm. What can he do to prevent this? Can he phone the police? She is 14 so not a young child. She would go with them willingly because it is difficult for her to say no to them. She understands why her Dad doesn't want her to see them but she is in a difficult position.

I don't think there is a lot he can do given her age if she willingly goes with them. Is there a welfare concern if she goes with them?

No not really. They keep saying awful things about my son and she gets upset. He is understandably angry and not happy about her seeing them and the messages she receives from them.

He cant prevent it if she is happy to see them and go with them. She'll soon tire of hearing them criticise her father and lie about things, let it play out, dont alienate her against them, let her see them for what they are

He needs to work on her ability to say no to them (a skill she could do with developing in any case).

Ideally she’ll just say “Sorry DGPs, I don’t want to tonight. I’ll see you sometime soon though.” But if she’s not quite up to that then subterfuge of a greater or lesser extent isn’t unreasonable. How do they pick her up? Just wait outside the school gates? Could she use a different exit or double back when she sees them? Does she walk home with friends she could use as an excuse? Or have activities she tells them she’s got to get to (which don’t have to be real)?

Edited to add: all this assumes she actually doesnt want to see them. It won’t be effective if she does but doesn’t want to admit that to her dad because he gets upset.

Thanks. She stays overnight one night a week . He let that continue for his daughter's sake and because her mother doesn't always bother with her. He thought he was doing the right thing for everyone but he's not so sure now. The grandparents have taken it as their right and are insisting it continues. They are saying they will come and get her whatever her dad says. Its all very difficult. He doesn't want to show up and drag his daughter away and upset her.

I feel sorry for the daughter. Sounds like all the adults need to look at their behaviour. At 14 unless there are safety issues then she should be having a say in who she sees and when. Sounds like battles for who is in charge.

Sometimes she wants to see them, sometimes she doesn't. It's awful for her. She loves them but she doesn't like them saying things about her dad. She can't tell them though. She just says nothing. She's shown the messages she's received to her dad . She doesn't reply to them but she's not happy telling them not to send them either. She's just a child really. It's awful they put her in this position.

The grandparents have taken it as their right and are insisting it continues.

Not if she's in the UK as she's 14.

If she doesn't want to stay over she can simply say "No" and refuse.

They could threaten to take it to court but as they don't have parental responsibility, her mother is still alive and she is 14 they won't get very far.

Basically due to her age it is up to her if she wants to interact with family members who aren't considered a risk to children.

My son is in charge though. I am uneasy about her spending time with these unpleasant people who think it's OK to bad mouth her dad, no matter if it upsets her.

She needs to be encouraged to talk to an someone outside the family maybe someone at school. Preferably an adult but even one of her peers maybe able to help her.

As unfortunately for her until she learns to stand up for herself this will definitely continue to happen. It may still continue if she does stand up for herself but if she feels supported from someone not involved she should feel more empowered in dealing with it as she will have it acknowledged their behaviour is nasty.

Not all 14 year olds are capable of saying what they want, not all adults are for that matter. There's plenty of adult people pressers. But PPs have voiced the only real way to resolve this. @Anna713 can you DS afford for her to see a psychologist? They could work on her assertiveness and ability to communicate her feelings. Those are valuable skills for everyone to have and it's worth teaching her that she doesn't have to put up with this kind of behaviour. That's what I'd do in his position, which I sort of am, but the person saying nasty stuff and upsetting our kids is mostly the ex, they only see the ILs a couple times a year so not as big an issue.

@EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness Thanks. That's really useful. The school were really good when her mother first left and she did receive counselling from them that helped. I will advise my son to contact them again and see if they can help.

So then build her resilience and coping abilities to deal with people saying horrible things. This wont be the only time this happens, this is her family, families dont always get on, you need to be able to deal with it and manage it. She needs to know them for who they are, she will either accept that or walk away when she feels able

I really want to add here that the focus needs to be less on the GPs’ behaviour and more on building resilience in the child that’s being undermined by the GPs’ behaviour.

What I mean is, she will need to say no a hell of a lot in her life. She will need to advocate for herself and she will have to resist the impulse to people please. It’s the biggest act of self sabotage.

Her current situation is undermining her ability to do all that, at a time she should be developing it!

I really recommend you all support her in expressing her preferences for what’s for dinner, what to watch on tv, what to do at the weekend. Practise on the little things and she’ll learn how to do it on the big things.

I had to help my very diligent, virtuous, old for his age DS with this- it’s ok to be naughty, it’s ok to say no, it’s ok to be annoying. The world won’t end. It doesn’t make you a bad person. We will love you even if you’re being a toe rag.

If she learns all this she will be much better positioned as an adult, and it will give her tools to handle the GPs as well.

On the days she doesn't want to go with them, could she let her dad know and maybe he gets her earlier from school that day.

Or tell grandparents that she has plans with a friend and wine be coming.

Or she gets permission to leave school early and goes straight home, doesn't answer her phone to the Grandparents.

I think your son should look into getting her some counselling, so she can talk this through and how to stand up to the grandparents. They shouldn't be talking bad about her dad to her.

Can your son tell them to stop doing it, as it affects her and makes her uncomfortable.

They can keep their opinions to themselves.

Thanks all. This is really useful. I must admit I hadn't thought about building her resilience. My son has told the other grandparents that she's not coming but he gets an unbelievable amount of abuse back from them, via messages on his daughter's phone so she sees it all. It's all really unpleasant . It's hard to believe people in their 60s can be so nasty. When she is there they shower her with money and presents and let her do whatever she wants. It's hard for a just 14 year old to get their head round.

It's not up to you.

Can't your son block the grandparents's number on his daughter's phone or buy her new phone with a different number? They sound abusive and they are using their grandaughter as a conduit to abuse your son. Is the language they are using when they send their grandaughter messages about her dad inappropriate and threatening? If so, I would also report them to the police.

Is there a legal agreement in place for contact? If so, refer back to this, equally, if there isn't, it maybe worth exploring. It may also be worth getting some legal advice about where your son stands.
Equally, get the school involved - they can prevent parents/carers coming onto site.... though that doesn't necessarily help if they just wait outside.
Granddaughter has to have a plan in place with school as to how this is dealt with ie a teacher escorts her to her bus or similar or to go home with an agreed friend or you.
It may equally be that you have to get police (SS) involved as the GPs behaviour sounds appalling and deeply harming for the granddaughter. They also don't have PR and are collecting a minor from school against her will/agreed contact.

It would be a good idea to make school aware so they can keep an eye out for her. Dd could walk back into school if she spots them and ring him to collect her. She could let him know if she has gone to theirs and ask to be collected. If they refuse he would need to ring the police.

I would inform the school that this is happening so that they can support the girl. That might mean a staff member walking out with her each night or helping to build her resilience to say no to things she doesn't want to do. She could also boomerang back onto school grounds if she sees them to avoid the confrontation and find a teacher. This can all be set up within school if they are supportive.

I would absolutely mention them going via the girl's phone to pass messages on to her Dad and the nature of those messages and hopefully she can show them to pastoral who would be best to advise her on the situation.

That is school informed and then work on her saying no to anything she doesn't want to do. This will stand her in good stead for things with friends and later boyfriends. It is very hard to get out of the mindset of upsetting adults and saying no to things when we are usually taught to please people from a young age.

Thanks again. My son has informed the school this morning. I am picking her up early today. There is a court order in place stating she sees her mother twice a week at her maternal grandmother's home. My son has informed social services previously when mum was threatening suicide and telling the child it would be her fault. Social Services had a word with mum but it all just starts again. My granddaughter had a barage of messages last night after I posted. The problem is sometimes she wants to see her mum and gps or if her mum isnt there just her gps. My son would sooner stop it all together but presumably he has to stick to the court order and also he doesn't want to upset his daughter more than she already is.

I think she needs the help of an uninvolved adult to help her navigate this challenging situation. I’m sure her school could facilitate that. It’s a tricky situation. It is usually in the child’s best long term interest in have some sort of contact with family if that’s what they want but this must be so stressful for her. I would get her a second phone number. The number they have for her can be in a cheap handset and her new main number given to everyone else. That means she can look at messages from them in a controlled way or just delete them without reading if that’s what she wants to do.

A second phone is a great idea. She did have counselling with the school last year but she's been so much better lately so they stopped it. She does have someone at the school she can go to though if she needs to. I'll mention it to her. Thanks again . Great advice

They can't pick her up on his time, but if the ex-wife chooses to have them pick her up on her time he can't stop that.