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Original poster

Baby Removed at Birth Support

478 replies

Mumtobe799 · 04/12/2024 00:07

Hello

This is extremely controversial and I feel embarrassed posting but I’m looking for a bit of help. I am due to give birth within the next few weeks and after Social Services involvement throughout my pregnancy, I have been told they will be removing my baby at birth. Baby will be placed with their Dad under an interim court order whilst assessments are ongoing.

Does anybody know what removal at birth actually means? My baby and I will need to stay in hospital for a few days, is it likely I will be able to stay with them or will they likely split us up? These are questions I have asked Social Services but they will not give me an answer.

I would like to breast feed; is this something Social Services have to support as it is in the best interest of baby. My baby is being removed due to mental health concerns, no issues around substance or alcohol abuse so that being in breast milk isn’t a worry.

If anyone with any legal experience or people who may have gone through or know someone who has gone through something similar can help I would really appreciate it. Thank you.

OP posts:
Original poster
Mumtobe799 · 04/12/2024 06:01

Womblewife · 04/12/2024 05:30

You can express milk. But this means dad having to constantly collect it, which will be really disruptive along with lack of sleep etc that he will be facing. It will be for social worker to work things out with dad, collecting baby etc. my personal view is that a contact centre will be arranged as baby is so young and vulnerable, and they will be assessing you.

Edited
Show quote history

Can I ask what your experience of this is? You seem know a lot, do you work for Social Services?

It is really important that my baby is able to be breastfed and I am happy to drop off the milk or facilitate a family member dropping off the milk instead. There’s religious and cultural issues which means formula would be limited and difficult to purchase.

I see my older child at my home, this is the full sibling of my baby. Why would they want me to see a baby at a contact centre yet my older child they are happy for me to see at home, multiple times per week. I don’t think I would go to a contact centre and would prefer to wait until I can see my baby in my home.

I would prefer to give baby directly to the Dad and wouldn’t feel comfortable handing my newborn baby over to a Social Worker, especially as the time after birth is very important in terms of my religious beliefs (no, I don’t have religious psychosis, I’m Jewish).

OP posts:
Original poster
Mumtobe799 · 04/12/2024 06:04

Hels20 · 04/12/2024 05:55

You asked earlier OP about being able to give a name. My son who is adopted was under a care order from birth and birth Mum named him. As you aren’t married to the father, he doesn’t get automatic PR does he so not sure how birth is registered if you don’t go with him to register it?

I would have thought that SS would listen to your requests re name.

so awful for you. Hope you get well.

I hope I get to register the birth and choose a name. I don’t think it would be appropriate for the Dad and I to register baby together but I know he can fill in a declaration of parentage in order to be placed on the certificate straight away.

OP posts:
DanielaDressen · 04/12/2024 06:11

I’m sorry you’re going through this. I’m a midwife and have cared for women in this situation a few times. The majority of the time the mum stayed with the baby for a few days postnatally until both were fit to be discharged.

I have known one occasion where we knew the mother was going to be too unstable for this to happen, she was violent (in the antenatal period) and it was felt she wasn’t safe to be around the baby. That baby was removed within minutes.

i expect you’re struggling to get a straight answer as they will want to see how you are after the birth. If you have a severe postpartum relapse they will have to assess how safe you are. Hopefully it won’t come to that and it’s unlikely to come to that. It’s a real shame that social services aren’t communicating better with you…..even if it’s just to explain they’ll need to see how you are after the birth.

I have no idea about the name situation, you’d like to think if you have a good relationship with the baby’s dad you could register the birth together? I’d name the baby and just tell social services and the dad what the baby’s name is.

AmberAlert86 · 04/12/2024 06:13

I'm so sorry @Mumtobe799
I have no advice to offer but want to express my sympathy. You haven't asked to have severe mental health issues, but that's the card you were dealt. In my eyes, you are a strong woman.
Best of luck for the future. Take care of yourself and make sure you stay on path with the treatment plan after birth.

Candy24 · 04/12/2024 06:16

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Talapia · 04/12/2024 06:17

Breast feeding would depend on the meds you have been on and any potential risk to baby.

If you can breast feed you can express and freeze milk as well as feed baby yourself. Baby is likely to need formula too.

They may place family support workers at the hospital to supervise and support you and baby whilst you are there.

Contact may well be contact at a centre as though you have contact with your other child at their home, this is about the baby and safeguarding him/her. If this happens and you are breastfeeding ask your solicitor for as much contact as possible.

If you are able to have contact in baby's house, this could also be supervised by family support workers.

This really varies depending on where you are in the country though.

I am sure you can name baby, only if a name was considered abusive would this not be allowed.

Good luck with the birth, I am sorry to hear you have been unwell. It's a very difficult position to be in.

Original poster
Mumtobe799 · 04/12/2024 06:18

DanielaDressen · 04/12/2024 06:11

I’m sorry you’re going through this. I’m a midwife and have cared for women in this situation a few times. The majority of the time the mum stayed with the baby for a few days postnatally until both were fit to be discharged.

I have known one occasion where we knew the mother was going to be too unstable for this to happen, she was violent (in the antenatal period) and it was felt she wasn’t safe to be around the baby. That baby was removed within minutes.

i expect you’re struggling to get a straight answer as they will want to see how you are after the birth. If you have a severe postpartum relapse they will have to assess how safe you are. Hopefully it won’t come to that and it’s unlikely to come to that. It’s a real shame that social services aren’t communicating better with you…..even if it’s just to explain they’ll need to see how you are after the birth.

I have no idea about the name situation, you’d like to think if you have a good relationship with the baby’s dad you could register the birth together? I’d name the baby and just tell social services and the dad what the baby’s name is.

May I ask what you mean by violent? Was she in psychosis immediately prior to childbirth or was it done as a preventative measure.

I tried to harm myself and therefore baby whilst pregnant so Social Services say there is a risk of physical harm after birth.

Having said this I have attended all antenatal appointments, fully prepared for baby’s arrival, it is the one incident where I was trying to harm myself which is seen as harm to baby although I have not experienced that again in almost 5 months.

OP posts:
Original poster
Mumtobe799 · 04/12/2024 06:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I think this is a really insensitive comment to make as other women with mental health problems may read this.

I actually asked about having my tubes tied and was told a firm no, the most drastic measure they would put in place is a coil.

OP posts:
BeatrizViter · 04/12/2024 06:21

Hi there, if safe to do so you may be able
to register the birth with the child's social worker as part of a supervised contact. I suspect that lots of the reasons people cannot give you clear plans is because they don't know how unwell you may become after birth. Typically you would remain on the ward with the baby until a court hearing has taken place, which is usually between a day and three days. But if you are very unwell and posing an immediate risk to your baby they may have to take urgent action to protect you both.

In my experience you do not hand your baby to a social worker when they are removing subject to a court order, a hospital staff member such as a midwife would usually take baby to a social worker in a different room to avoid distress. Of course, thats also dependent on circumstances and safety. There's no reason why you can't ask that the father is at the hospital in a different room and care is transferred to him immediately if he is willing.

Importantly, if postpartum psychosis is the only or main reason your baby is being removed, and especially if father is not actively seeking care, you have every chance of being reunited with your baby in the longer term. Do not give up hope, co-operate with health and social care, ask about residential assessment if you are well enough to do so. Best of luck.

Cakeandcoffee93 · 04/12/2024 06:22

OP, your situation , you sound so brave. Also I know I shouldn’t comment but you sound like any mother who wants the best for her baby, I’m so sorry this is happening to you. I hope once baby is here, your mental health stabilises and social services work with you to help you be with your baby .

Original poster
Mumtobe799 · 04/12/2024 06:23

Talapia · 04/12/2024 06:17

Breast feeding would depend on the meds you have been on and any potential risk to baby.

If you can breast feed you can express and freeze milk as well as feed baby yourself. Baby is likely to need formula too.

They may place family support workers at the hospital to supervise and support you and baby whilst you are there.

Contact may well be contact at a centre as though you have contact with your other child at their home, this is about the baby and safeguarding him/her. If this happens and you are breastfeeding ask your solicitor for as much contact as possible.

If you are able to have contact in baby's house, this could also be supervised by family support workers.

This really varies depending on where you are in the country though.

I am sure you can name baby, only if a name was considered abusive would this not be allowed.

Good luck with the birth, I am sorry to hear you have been unwell. It's a very difficult position to be in.

Thank you for your reply

OP posts:
NeverAloneNeverAgain · 04/12/2024 06:23

Oh OP this is a really difficult time. It sounds as though you are working with the right people re mental health. Every situation around a removal is different so I won't comment on contact or supervision after delivery as I'm not sure it will be helpful (because all situations are different) and obviously you can't and wouldn't want to post really detailed info on your personal circumstances.

It's really good you have a solicitor. They are your own independent advice. Use them! Ask the questions you have on here re what is the plan after delivery to your solicitor and the SW at your meetings. Write them down if you think that will help or email them.

In terms of who will take baby it is a requirement that a SW 'places' baby. This can be, and should be, done respectfully and sensitively as possible. For example you could ask if you could pass baby to dad with the SW present or after a discharge meeting ask for the opportunity to leave first and then baby could be taken to dad at that point so you don't have to feel as though you are 'handing them over'. There are different ways it can be managed.

Re breastfeeding breast milk can be expressed and frozen and then transported from you to baby either by family/friends, at contact or possibly by social care. If you want to breastfeed it can be facilitated if that's safe and best for baby. I would consider your own health in this though. If medication to help support your own mental health is not compatible with breastfeeding prioritise that. You're in a far better situation taking the medication that will potentially help you be well over taking something that's safe while breastfeeding and maybe not as effective keeping you well.

Cupofcoffeee · 04/12/2024 06:27

Social services don't usually permanently remove a baby from their mum If it's just PPP. You'd get baby back if it's 'just' this as it's a temporary condition. It appears there's other MH issues if you were taking prescription psychiatric drugs whilst pregnant.

Candy24 · 04/12/2024 06:28

Mumtobe799 · 04/12/2024 06:20

I think this is a really insensitive comment to make as other women with mental health problems may read this.

I actually asked about having my tubes tied and was told a firm no, the most drastic measure they would put in place is a coil.

Show quote history

no offense intended but I would think having such a severe mental health issues twice they would help you out there. If they think you will have this happen again they will do that same thing.

My friend had it twice and she has her tubes tied so this never happens again. It is so horrible and hard for her.

I feel for you alot you don't have control over this.

Original poster
Mumtobe799 · 04/12/2024 06:28

BeatrizViter · 04/12/2024 06:21

Hi there, if safe to do so you may be able
to register the birth with the child's social worker as part of a supervised contact. I suspect that lots of the reasons people cannot give you clear plans is because they don't know how unwell you may become after birth. Typically you would remain on the ward with the baby until a court hearing has taken place, which is usually between a day and three days. But if you are very unwell and posing an immediate risk to your baby they may have to take urgent action to protect you both.

In my experience you do not hand your baby to a social worker when they are removing subject to a court order, a hospital staff member such as a midwife would usually take baby to a social worker in a different room to avoid distress. Of course, thats also dependent on circumstances and safety. There's no reason why you can't ask that the father is at the hospital in a different room and care is transferred to him immediately if he is willing.

Importantly, if postpartum psychosis is the only or main reason your baby is being removed, and especially if father is not actively seeking care, you have every chance of being reunited with your baby in the longer term. Do not give up hope, co-operate with health and social care, ask about residential assessment if you are well enough to do so. Best of luck.

Post Partum Psychosis is the only reason for removing baby, Social Services have stated they’re concerned about mine and the Dad’s difficult relationship but that would not meet a removal threshold which is why the Dad is having baby.

From what I know Dad is not actively seeking to care for baby but is willing to do so as I have been negatively assessed (I think that’s the right wording). I do not think for a minute he would contest baby returning to me or co-parenting if it’s deemed safe to do so in the coming months and years.

I will definitely be asking for Dad to be at the hospital in a different room, although we do not get on and I would not want to see him, baby’s interests are at the forefront of my mind and I would prefer them to go directly to him instead of midwife, social worker, Dad etc.

OP posts:
Original poster
Mumtobe799 · 04/12/2024 06:30

Candy24 · 04/12/2024 06:28

no offense intended but I would think having such a severe mental health issues twice they would help you out there. If they think you will have this happen again they will do that same thing.

My friend had it twice and she has her tubes tied so this never happens again. It is so horrible and hard for her.

I feel for you alot you don't have control over this.

Show quote history

Although I’ve had it twice, as a woman who’s not yet 30 I don’t think I’d feel comfortable with it although I do want long term contraception (not that I’ll be with someone for a long time!)

I’m glad they were able to help your friend out and it was the best decision for her.

OP posts:
DanielaDressen · 04/12/2024 06:30

Mumtobe799 · 04/12/2024 06:18

May I ask what you mean by violent? Was she in psychosis immediately prior to childbirth or was it done as a preventative measure.

I tried to harm myself and therefore baby whilst pregnant so Social Services say there is a risk of physical harm after birth.

Having said this I have attended all antenatal appointments, fully prepared for baby’s arrival, it is the one incident where I was trying to harm myself which is seen as harm to baby although I have not experienced that again in almost 5 months.

Show quote history

So in that case she was violent throughout pregnancy, attacking midwives and social workers non stop.

They will be concerned if you have tried to hurt yourself before. They will all be aware of Charlotte Bevan and not want a repeat of that. A lot of the decision may come down to how well they think they can supervise you.

Original poster
Mumtobe799 · 04/12/2024 06:37

DanielaDressen · 04/12/2024 06:30

So in that case she was violent throughout pregnancy, attacking midwives and social workers non stop.

They will be concerned if you have tried to hurt yourself before. They will all be aware of Charlotte Bevan and not want a repeat of that. A lot of the decision may come down to how well they think they can supervise you.

Show quote history

I have never attacked anybody, the only person I’ve been a risk to is myself and therefore baby as I’m pregnant.

I just googled Charlotte Bevan, it is so sad, I really feel what she must have been going through and that poor baby. It’s just awful.

I attend all appointments and taken myself to triage when I felt reduced movements etc, even in the middle of the night when I wasn’t very well.

My midwife is of the believe supervision from my parents is adequate but I have to wait for Social Serviced decisions, hopefully that will be today or tomorrow.

OP posts:
Miyagi99 · 04/12/2024 06:41

TheShellBeach · 04/12/2024 01:25

I think this is your second baby, isn't it?

Your baby won't have to stay in hospital for a few days. She or he can be discharged immediately to her father's care.

You won't need to stay in either, unless there are medical reasons for this.

As your baby is being removed at birth, I don't think that breastfeeding will be advisable or possible.

That’s not true, the baby can have colostrum and she can express for the baby’s best interest.

MelainesLaugh · 04/12/2024 06:42

What an awful situation.

With the dad not really wanting the baby, is there another family member who could take on the care and work with you?

Summertime1992 · 04/12/2024 06:42

In terms of wanting to breastfeed. They may not be confirming this as they will likely need a Dr to check that it's okay to do so.

Aripiprazole can be found in traces of breast milk and can have adverse effects on the baby, so you may not be able to breastfeed. See the BNF for more details.

I would ask to speak to your consultant about breastfeeding if this is something you're keen on so you can discuss this in more detail.

Best of luck to you and your baby.

Original poster
Mumtobe799 · 04/12/2024 06:44

MelainesLaugh · 04/12/2024 06:42

What an awful situation.

With the dad not really wanting the baby, is there another family member who could take on the care and work with you?

Dad states he is happy to take on baby, although I believe his isn’t true. There isn’t another family member who can take on baby, if I become unwell I will need my mum’s support and to continue living with her for a while so it’s not appropriate.

OP posts:
Sausagedognamedmash · 04/12/2024 06:45

I have no experience of this either personally or professionally but I just want to say, I hope everything goes OK OP and that you and baby are reunited as soon as possible. I really feel for you.

DanielaDressen · 04/12/2024 06:46

Mumtobe799 · 04/12/2024 06:37

I have never attacked anybody, the only person I’ve been a risk to is myself and therefore baby as I’m pregnant.

I just googled Charlotte Bevan, it is so sad, I really feel what she must have been going through and that poor baby. It’s just awful.

I attend all appointments and taken myself to triage when I felt reduced movements etc, even in the middle of the night when I wasn’t very well.

My midwife is of the believe supervision from my parents is adequate but I have to wait for Social Serviced decisions, hopefully that will be today or tomorrow.

Show quote history

I completely get that. But you are at higher risk for postpartum psychosis and people can change very suddenly with this. Chances are you will be fine, but there is a slight chance that you have a sudden change in behaviour and they will be aware of this. I delivered a baby once to a woman with no previous mental health issues and within minutes she was like a different person. I’ve known women be convinced the staff are trying to harm them/their baby, that they need to escape and catch a train to London to tell the prime minister. It can be quite scary. Hopefully you are well supported and it goes smoothly.

Original poster
Mumtobe799 · 04/12/2024 06:46

Summertime1992 · 04/12/2024 06:42

In terms of wanting to breastfeed. They may not be confirming this as they will likely need a Dr to check that it's okay to do so.

Aripiprazole can be found in traces of breast milk and can have adverse effects on the baby, so you may not be able to breastfeed. See the BNF for more details.

I would ask to speak to your consultant about breastfeeding if this is something you're keen on so you can discuss this in more detail.

Best of luck to you and your baby.

Thank you

Consultant is happy for me to breastfeed as it will allow baby to wean off Aripiprazole more easily.

Once any withdrawal symptoms have stopped well then review about breastfeeding. I have found a kosher milk if it’s not possible.

OP posts: