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Being dismissed for gross misconduct based on nasty gossip

400 replies

Vossisdoss · 18/10/2024 11:39

Someone I used to work with, who has now moved to another department in the same company called me yesterday to say that she has been suspended, and they are investigating her for gross misconduct with a view to dismissing her.

She is being accused of taking annual leave and not logging it onto the system and also exploiting sick leave, by taking time off when she’s not sick. It looks like all of her colleagues have ganged up on her to support this. She said she can prove she logged onto the computer when they are saying she was on holiday (but they are saying she could have done this from Spain) and her sick leave doesn’t look too awful. She was signed off by her doctor for three weeks after surgery, and there’s been the odd self certified day here and there. Apparently she was seen shopping and in her garden when she was recovering from surgery, and this is what has triggered this.

She’s worked there for twenty years and is so worried that she is going to lose her job. The hearing is next week, and she said that her colleagues have essentially thrown her under a bus - eg saying she came back from her surgery with “a Mediterranean tan” and “didn’t look sick”.

She contacted me as I used to be a union rep. I’ve told her to contact her rep ASAP before the hearing. But can they do this when there is no proof?

OP posts:
Westofeasttoday · 18/10/2024 13:52

Novaavon · 18/10/2024 12:48

They don’t stamp passports anymore.

Yes they do. UK passports are stamped on entry and exit from the Schengen zone which includes Spain.

Yeah but unfortunately not if they use egates. No stamps there.

itsmeagainagain · 18/10/2024 13:53

surely her employer can check what work she actually did - logging onto a computer once a day doesn't constitute work does it surely?

itwasnevermine · 18/10/2024 13:53

Something seems really, really off here.

Citrusandginger · 18/10/2024 13:56

Did she post socials of her paragliding in Spain 2 weeks after surgery for excruciating back pain?

Demonhunter · 18/10/2024 13:59

Getupat8amnow · 18/10/2024 11:53

If your colleague was signed off by a doctor for three weeks to recover from surgery then it is no one else’s business if she feels well enough to be in her garden, shopping, walking, going to the cinema or anything else. Being signed off does not mean you have to stay indoors. People I know have been signed off to recover and part of that recovery is starting to do normal daily activities as a build up to going back to work.

Exactly this. It was my first thoughts too.

Toooldtocareanymore · 18/10/2024 14:00

Bit hard to be seen in garden and shopping while also being in Spain, and if she was signed off for three weeks to recover post surgery, there is absolutely nothing wrong with her doing some of that recovery in spain. So even if its entirely false the claim she took a holiday, she should not get too involved in defending this - she would simply have to show she was signed off, which she was. Perhaps she should supply a more detailed letter from doctors confirming when surgery performed, did she have any follow up appointments? and ask them to set out why they would sign her off for three weeks.

NigelHarmansNewWife · 18/10/2024 14:01

Westofeasttoday · 18/10/2024 13:52

Yeah but unfortunately not if they use egates. No stamps there.

You can't use e-gates in Spain with a UK passport post Brexit transition period

SiobhanSharpe · 18/10/2024 14:04

SilverChampagne · 18/10/2024 12:39

They don’t stamp passports anymore.

Yes they do and have done for the past two years at least if you have a non-EU passport. .
It's how they keep track of the number of days you are allowed to be in an EU country each year.

Woolycardy · 18/10/2024 14:04

I’d be reporting my stasi colleagues for spying on me in the garden.

YellowphantGrey · 18/10/2024 14:05

SilverChampagne · 18/10/2024 12:39

They don’t stamp passports anymore.

British Passports currently get stamped when you're travelling to Europe. It's stopping in November though

Vossisdoss · 18/10/2024 14:06

She says she didn’t go to Spain - this is the malicious gossip.
As a TU rep I never had to deal with any gross misconduct cases. So that’s why I’m a bit naive.
I’ve told her to consult her current TU rep and get them to accompany her to the meeting, and to be completely honest with them. I don’t know if I’m getting the whole story - this is just what she told me. If this is true, it all seemed a bit OTT to me.

OP posts:
SilverChampagne · 18/10/2024 14:06

So even if its entirely false the claim she took a holiday, she should not get too involved in defending this - she would simply have to show she was signed off, which she was
Her employers would have checked that she was signed off in the first instance. It won’t be news to them…
There’s very likely a lot more to this that op isn’t privy to.

Thereshegoess · 18/10/2024 14:07

Ivehearditbothways · 18/10/2024 13:14

Depending where she works, a lot of redundancy warnings went out this last couple weeks in quite a few industries, especially banking etc.
An employee of 20 years would be up for a decent redundancy pay and getting rid of someone could save another employee, if they’ve all decided to gang up on her.

It is odd though. Because the complaints they’ve made really don’t hold much water; she didn’t do anything wrong going out and about while on sick leave.

Yes that’s a fair point. However, equally, an employee with 20 years service would be a very risky dismissal without absolute solid evidence to prove wrongdoing, which they wouldn’t have if what OP claims is the true story as they’d be looking at a very expensive pay out should she sue them for wrongful dismissal.

May09Bump · 18/10/2024 14:09

SilverChampagne · 18/10/2024 12:39

They don’t stamp passports anymore.

We got ours stamped in spain and portugal in the last year - maybe because we had children with us?

fashionqueen0123 · 18/10/2024 14:10

I’ve been to Spain twice since Brexit and no stamp.

Being in her garden- someone stalking her! Of course she’s allowed in it

Mookytoo · 18/10/2024 14:10

There is more to this than she is telling you. Please if you learn any actual facts please let us know.

Previous employer did catch a person who was “off sick” by calling their mobile to innocently leave a voice message about an incoming change and got the “European ring sound”. Then everyone in office called her mobile to hear the European ring sound. Her work friends tipped her off that everyone now knew she was lying about the tummy bug and terrible diarrhea. It was serious dishonesty & paid sick days (financial fraud) so very serious breach.

If she was off sick … it’s possible that it could be viewed as travel during sick leave. I suppose depends on her illness. We also had a person on stress leave who went on holiday to de-stress … company lawyer thought it would be difficult to challenge this de-stress leave travel as fraud.

lololulu · 18/10/2024 14:12

It's weird how you are post get info on here.

She probably hadn't told you the full story.

Genuine question to some on here. if you're off sick with MH issues or pain or unwell why would you want to go on holiday? Never mind abroad?

SilverChampagne · 18/10/2024 14:12

May09Bump · 18/10/2024 14:09

We got ours stamped in spain and portugal in the last year - maybe because we had children with us?

No, sorry, I got it wrong. I actually travel on an EU passport.

itwasnevermine · 18/10/2024 14:13

lololulu · 18/10/2024 14:12

It's weird how you are post get info on here.

She probably hadn't told you the full story.

Genuine question to some on here. if you're off sick with MH issues or pain or unwell why would you want to go on holiday? Never mind abroad?

Because that can help?

Thereshegoess · 18/10/2024 14:14

Woolycardy · 18/10/2024 13:26

This all sounds very intrusive. I had a tan face after sick leave. Guess why? Its called fake tan and i put it on to try and trick my brain that i was doing better. Get a life.

Yeah if the tan thing is true is OP’s post then that would indeed be ridiculous.

I had a massive allergic reaction a few days ago where my eyelids swelled and an awful rash covered my whole face. My own dad said I looked frightening. Had an important meeting the next day so covered it with make up rendering it undetectable - doesn’t mean it wasn’t there!

Megifer · 18/10/2024 14:15

lololulu · 18/10/2024 14:12

It's weird how you are post get info on here.

She probably hadn't told you the full story.

Genuine question to some on here. if you're off sick with MH issues or pain or unwell why would you want to go on holiday? Never mind abroad?

Because relaxing can aid physical aswell as mental recovery.

LisaJohnsonsFacebookMole · 18/10/2024 14:16

AlisonDonut · 18/10/2024 12:08

If she wasn't in spain, usually google maps has your location tracked so she can show she was at home the whole time.

No way would I be sharing that with my work! It's invasive and sets a horrible precedent. It's a job, not a criminal trial.

TheCookieCrumblesThisWay · 18/10/2024 14:16

Her employers are likely able to assess the location where she logged in from, based on her IP address in the logs.

Twila1 · 18/10/2024 14:23

YellowphantGrey
The manual stamping of passports will continue, as the launch of the EU Entry/Exit System (EES) in November has been postponed with no new date set.

Pigtailsandall · 18/10/2024 14:26

AllyCart · 18/10/2024 13:32

No, I'm thinking more along the lines of perhaps they're looking at gross misconduct on the grounds of dishonesty.

They may not believe the person genuinely needed to be off sick.

For the avoidance of doubt I'm not saying that's reasonable, if so, but if they believe it to be the case they may consider it gross misconduct and hence the employee could be summarily dismissed.

A "grievance" wouldn't necessarily come into it if they've already been fired, at least in terms of there being a legal obligation to hear it. Again, that may not be looked upon favourably by a tribunal or court, but that's not the point.

But dishonesty about what? The sick person didn't assess themselves unfit to work. The medical practitioner did. Unless the note is fake, or they are doubting the doctor's motives (such as the doctor being a family member of the sick person - in which case that would be a terrible GMC breach and they would be striked off - not something any doctor I know would do) then there isn't really a case for "dishonesty". Being unfit to work does not mean you are unfit to do other activities.

They could absolutely take up a grievance even at the stage of being threatened about dismissal - I would - in most organisations grievances will still stand even after the person leaves their job (dismissed or resigned). Other than that, a tribunal would be the way to go, but hopefully it won't come to that