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Being dismissed for gross misconduct based on nasty gossip

400 replies

Vossisdoss · 18/10/2024 11:39

Someone I used to work with, who has now moved to another department in the same company called me yesterday to say that she has been suspended, and they are investigating her for gross misconduct with a view to dismissing her.

She is being accused of taking annual leave and not logging it onto the system and also exploiting sick leave, by taking time off when she’s not sick. It looks like all of her colleagues have ganged up on her to support this. She said she can prove she logged onto the computer when they are saying she was on holiday (but they are saying she could have done this from Spain) and her sick leave doesn’t look too awful. She was signed off by her doctor for three weeks after surgery, and there’s been the odd self certified day here and there. Apparently she was seen shopping and in her garden when she was recovering from surgery, and this is what has triggered this.

She’s worked there for twenty years and is so worried that she is going to lose her job. The hearing is next week, and she said that her colleagues have essentially thrown her under a bus - eg saying she came back from her surgery with “a Mediterranean tan” and “didn’t look sick”.

She contacted me as I used to be a union rep. I’ve told her to contact her rep ASAP before the hearing. But can they do this when there is no proof?

OP posts:
PullTheBricksDown · 18/10/2024 11:43

Surely they have to have meetings and issue warnings etc for this first? Has she not had any of that?

Being honest, is there more to this than she's admitting? It sounds like a lot on hearsay. You've said her sickness record is 'not too awful' but what's it actually like?

MinervaMcGonagallsCat · 18/10/2024 11:45

Accusations have been made.

It's quite right that the employer should investigate this.

If she hasn't done this and can prove it then she will be fine. In fact is she can evidence it then the outcome of the investigation should mean no further action.

It is importantly that she is accompanied by a Tu rep or a colleague to support her and ensure the process is carried out fairly.

She should keep notes of everything.

LorettyTen · 18/10/2024 11:45

This happened to someone I knew at work, but she had fiddled the computer login on a couple of occasions to make it look like she was at work when she wasn't. She pretended she had gone to another site.
However, she was guilty, but it was her colleagues who got her dismissed. They complained to the departmental head and he did the deed. It was a case of go before you're pushed, so she did.
She did deserve it but there were others there who did far worse and got away with it, e.g. 3 people regularly coming back from lunch drunk, people fiddling time off, etc. It was because her face didn't fit that she was sacked. It seems if the knifes in your back, that's it.

Vossisdoss · 18/10/2024 11:50

She’s had no warnings, straight to suspension and accused of gross misconduct.

Sick leave, she showed me the three weeks certified. She had had a couple of days off for a cold and another day for a tummy bug. It seemed to be the three weeks that triggered her colleagues.

OP posts:
FictionalCharacter · 18/10/2024 11:51

The onus is on them to prove the accusations are true, not on her to disprove malicious gossip. Are the colleagues saying they have proof she was in Spain?

Getupat8amnow · 18/10/2024 11:53

If your colleague was signed off by a doctor for three weeks to recover from surgery then it is no one else’s business if she feels well enough to be in her garden, shopping, walking, going to the cinema or anything else. Being signed off does not mean you have to stay indoors. People I know have been signed off to recover and part of that recovery is starting to do normal daily activities as a build up to going back to work.

ThatsNotMyTeen · 18/10/2024 11:56

Even if she was in Spain/in her garden it doesn’t mean she wasn’t sick. Being signed off means you’re unfit for work, not that you can’t have a life.

if you were a union rep you’ll know the test for unfair dismissal as per Burchell ie reasonable belief based on reasonable grounds following a reasonable investigation

MeowCatPleaseMeowBack · 18/10/2024 11:57

You used to be a union rep and you're asking randoms on Mumsnet about this?

FictionalCharacter · 18/10/2024 11:58

Getupat8amnow · 18/10/2024 11:53

If your colleague was signed off by a doctor for three weeks to recover from surgery then it is no one else’s business if she feels well enough to be in her garden, shopping, walking, going to the cinema or anything else. Being signed off does not mean you have to stay indoors. People I know have been signed off to recover and part of that recovery is starting to do normal daily activities as a build up to going back to work.

Exactly. And being well enough to spend 15 minutes in Tesco buying food doesn't mean you're well enough to do a commute and an 8 hour working day.
They shouldn't be talking about gross misconduct and dismissal when they haven't even investigated.

Doggymummar · 18/10/2024 12:01

I had colleagues who did this to me, saw me in the co-op doing my food shopping when signed off sick. Single and before internet and home delivery. Was I supposed to starve?

AlisonDonut · 18/10/2024 12:08

If she wasn't in spain, usually google maps has your location tracked so she can show she was at home the whole time.

BobbyBiscuits · 18/10/2024 12:10

So they are saying the sick note from the doctors for three weeks is fake? They certainly cannot either accuse or prove that you faked your illness to the GP. So how can they dispute the note?

Did she have cosmetic surgery abroad? Is that where the confusion lies about the tan etc?

But surely she's entitled to go shopping and be in her garden while off sick. She wasn't off sick because her legs stopped working?!

And why the fuck are her colleagues lingering near her house peering into her property to monitor her movements? Surely they should be at work themselves at that time?

Anyway, if she's not guilty there should not be a problem I'd hope. But definitely bring the union rep. If she can't get them then ask a neutral colleague to sit in (you maybe?)

I hope it gets sorted out. It does sound like she's been ganged up on to an extent.

thinkfast · 18/10/2024 12:11

Surely your employer will have IT records to show the location that she logged in from?

Westofeasttoday · 18/10/2024 12:11

Vossisdoss · 18/10/2024 11:50

She’s had no warnings, straight to suspension and accused of gross misconduct.

Sick leave, she showed me the three weeks certified. She had had a couple of days off for a cold and another day for a tummy bug. It seemed to be the three weeks that triggered her colleagues.

If it’s a case of gross misconduct you won’t get a warning. Any HR policy will state this. They will
investigate as they have to as it is serious while she isn’t working and in full pay.

Sounds like the company have followed the correct process and nothing out of the ordinary.

Hearsay and opinion isn’t taken into consideration - people can get a fake tan from a bottle so don’t let that concern you. If your friend hasn’t done anything wrong she has nothing to worry about.

Also, there is a misconception that you can’t go shopping or be in your garden for example being on sick leave. Of course you can. You don’t have to be tied to a bed. If you take stress leave HR should and will encourage you to do things that will boost your mind (for example) so that you are able to return to work.

i think she should reread the policies carefully and build her case on the policies and facts.

momager1 · 18/10/2024 12:15

if she did not go to spain, I assume there would be no passport stamp on those dates for spain or any other country? Take her passport to meeting

PuddlesPityParty · 18/10/2024 12:17

Vossisdoss · 18/10/2024 11:50

She’s had no warnings, straight to suspension and accused of gross misconduct.

Sick leave, she showed me the three weeks certified. She had had a couple of days off for a cold and another day for a tummy bug. It seemed to be the three weeks that triggered her colleagues.

You’re not getting the full story then or the employer is breaking the law. Butt out.

Livelaughlurgy · 18/10/2024 12:36

It's the holidays that I'd say has her- what happened there?

SilverChampagne · 18/10/2024 12:39

Vossisdoss · 18/10/2024 11:50

She’s had no warnings, straight to suspension and accused of gross misconduct.

Sick leave, she showed me the three weeks certified. She had had a couple of days off for a cold and another day for a tummy bug. It seemed to be the three weeks that triggered her colleagues.

They don’t have to issue warnings when it’s an accusation of gross misconduct.
If proven, it is grounds for instant dismissal.

SilverChampagne · 18/10/2024 12:39

momager1 · 18/10/2024 12:15

if she did not go to spain, I assume there would be no passport stamp on those dates for spain or any other country? Take her passport to meeting

They don’t stamp passports anymore.

Mrsttcno1 · 18/10/2024 12:39

If this is genuinely just based on gossip then it’s an open & shut case, she just needs to focus on policy and factual evidence to back her up. If that is all in order then it will be no further action. She could then (and I would) raise a grievance against the bullying staff members if this is a “witch hunt”.

I’d only be worried if I was her if I knew there was some element of truth.

flyingefffs · 18/10/2024 12:40

momager1 · 18/10/2024 12:15

if she did not go to spain, I assume there would be no passport stamp on those dates for spain or any other country? Take her passport to meeting

Can’t remember the last time I got a passport stamp. Apart from when going to America.

ToBeOrNotToBee · 18/10/2024 12:42

The location settings on her phone will be able to show where she was on specific dates and times, ie not in Spain as it is claimed. Google maps history is very good for this too.

Passport stamps (or lack of) will also show if they were or weren't in a certain country when claimed.

People are allowed to go shopping when recovering from surgery, and potter around their garden. That is not illegal, and is actually none of an employers business.

momager1 · 18/10/2024 12:43

SilverChampagne · 18/10/2024 12:39

They don’t stamp passports anymore.

i did not know that. I live in Dominican republic and our passports are stamped on exit and entry. My last stamp was 4 weeks ago.

ToBeOrNotToBee · 18/10/2024 12:43

flyingefffs · 18/10/2024 12:40

Can’t remember the last time I got a passport stamp. Apart from when going to America.

If entering the EU from Britain as a British Citizen we now get passport stamps.

PlantHeadNo5 · 18/10/2024 12:44

SilverChampagne · 18/10/2024 12:39

They don’t stamp passports anymore.

They stamped mine going in and out of Spain not too long ago, and my sons who was 2 at the time.

Can she provide any proof that she wasn’t in Spain? Bank statements for shopping locally? I’m not sure she should have to but the more evidence she has to prove that she is honest the better (if she is saying she wasn’t away of course, and I’m not judging her if she was).

She definitely needs Union support. At this stage it’s just an investigation, so she should use the time to build up her case and get support and representation.