Being dismissed for gross misconduct based on nasty gossip

[Vossisdoss]

Someone I used to work with, who has now moved to another department in the same company called me yesterday to say that she has been suspended, and they are investigating her for gross misconduct with a view to dismissing her.

She is being accused of taking annual leave and not logging it onto the system and also exploiting sick leave, by taking time off when she’s not sick. It looks like all of her colleagues have ganged up on her to support this. She said she can prove she logged onto the computer when they are saying she was on holiday (but they are saying she could have done this from Spain) and her sick leave doesn’t look too awful. She was signed off by her doctor for three weeks after surgery, and there’s been the odd self certified day here and there. Apparently she was seen shopping and in her garden when she was recovering from surgery, and this is what has triggered this.

She’s worked there for twenty years and is so worried that she is going to lose her job. The hearing is next week, and she said that her colleagues have essentially thrown her under a bus - eg saying she came back from her surgery with “a Mediterranean tan” and “didn’t look sick”.

She contacted me as I used to be a union rep. I’ve told her to contact her rep ASAP before the hearing. But can they do this when there is no proof?

In the nicest possible way, why are you asking Mumsnet and not ACAS? You will get lots of conflicting advice and opinions on here that probably won't help. Tell your friend to speak to ACAS.

I quite correctly corrected myself just hours after my original post. (I mainly travel on an EU passport).
Not particularly useful for you to be still bollocking on about it a whole week later.

It might keep a record of entries but passports aren't checked on exit.

Why is it surprising?

Do people really think that if you are off sick you can't go out.

It's not like being suspended from school and not being allowed in public places during school hours!

I am in that category
Bottom line here is that the manager has his/ her favourites who can play on their phone for HOURS, physically attack collegues ( me) and it's swiped under the table
I was threatened after 2 weeks OFF for spreading rumors ! I was aware, but I don't talk to anyone, but they all dump on me !!. I took photos and screenshots for some time now . Get the proof in and the union now

But none of that forces the employer to accept the 'trump card' of being off sick with a sick note.

You aren't somehow immune from them taking whatever action they see fit to take, whether or not that falls within guidance and legislation and whether or not it results in a tribunal or other court action.

If only you could argue the points.

I’m terribly sorry that I didn’t devote time to searching for a subsequent post that I couldn’t know existed.

All you had to do was RTFT before storming in 🤷🏻‍♀️

If I was her, I’d be leaving it up to my employer to prove I’d gone against policy. I’d not be offering to share my location settings etc on my personal devices or anything like that. I know that makes me an awkward so & so, but if I’d done nothing wrong, I’d have nothing to worry about. My work has the ability to check when / where I’ve logged on for my work device. I don’t allow them access to my personal device.

I had my passport stamped three times this summer - twice France once Italy,

.....yes, miss. Sorry, miss.

No but they can't reasonably claim that being out of the house while on sick leave is gross misconduct (or misconduct at all, unless for example you claimed to have had a hip replacement and were spotted doing an ultra marathon a week later!)

Your contributions to the thread are invaluable, @PointsSouth

I just want to know if OPs “friend” got sacked, but we’re still on about passport stamps 🫠

She was sacked. They said they didn’t believe her doctor’s note or the OH report. The leave thing seemed to be a bit of a grey area and she said they had to prove she wasn’t in U.K. She took her passport in to prove she hadn’t travelled and they just said she could have another passport. So it’s with a lawyer and her union rep now (neither of whom thought she would be dismissed).

Oh dear. Sounds like the going abroad thing was an additional thing to what they’ve actually sacked her for and would have done it with it without that. I’m assuming she’s appealing, but as has previously been said I really wouldn’t believe you’ve been told the whole truth here, a company can’t just say they don’t believe a doctors note then fire you, there has to be multiple instances or other things going on too.

The fact that an employer shouldn't do something doesn't mean they won't. You don't need to read many employment tribunal decisions to realise that some employers do sack people for reasons that don't stand up to any scrutiny at all.

I was sacked for similar reasons. My lovely no win no fee solicitor wrote a nasty letter pointing out all the money they owed me and the flaws in their argument.

I didn't really want my job back afterwards and went to work doing fewer hours for better pay elsewhere.

The thing is, GP and OH can only go by what patients/employees tell them. They have to assume what they say is true.

So claiming they don't believe the doctor or OH statements is not on itself automatically wrong. They however need to show that on balance of evidence, there was more to indicate that she was lying than telling the truth.

What evidence did they present to claim she was lying?

Oh my word that's crazy. Most people dont have two passports, you can't just apply for 2 you have to have a legit reason for needing it ! How ridiculous.

Sounds like a tribunal case waiting to happen. Maybe it will be reported in the Times one day, they usually pick up on the juicer or sillier ones.

Or she'll get her lawyers to write them a stroppy letter and they will back down and pay a settlement.

Maybe it’s a case of the “European ring tone” like at my previous work. Everyone was calling her phone to hear it. Person said they had been injured at the gym (falling on treadmill injury to ribs) but had no “evidence” at all from hospital. Not that A&E always gives you papers, but she could not produce anything and there was everyone who had called her phone and heard it. She was sacked … and didn’t fight it. She sent a friend to collect her stuff, because obviously she wasn’t “bandaged”…

I think what they’re saying about the passport … person can have a UK passport, and another country passport.

In this case, is it possible she forged a letter from GP? Looking at letters from mine … it’s possible.

Of course you can. I’ve got two.

Two British passports with zero rationale ? Because the guidance on the government website is that you need a reason for requesting the second and these are not routinely issued