Being dismissed for gross misconduct based on nasty gossip

[Vossisdoss]

Someone I used to work with, who has now moved to another department in the same company called me yesterday to say that she has been suspended, and they are investigating her for gross misconduct with a view to dismissing her.

She is being accused of taking annual leave and not logging it onto the system and also exploiting sick leave, by taking time off when she’s not sick. It looks like all of her colleagues have ganged up on her to support this. She said she can prove she logged onto the computer when they are saying she was on holiday (but they are saying she could have done this from Spain) and her sick leave doesn’t look too awful. She was signed off by her doctor for three weeks after surgery, and there’s been the odd self certified day here and there. Apparently she was seen shopping and in her garden when she was recovering from surgery, and this is what has triggered this.

She’s worked there for twenty years and is so worried that she is going to lose her job. The hearing is next week, and she said that her colleagues have essentially thrown her under a bus - eg saying she came back from her surgery with “a Mediterranean tan” and “didn’t look sick”.

She contacted me as I used to be a union rep. I’ve told her to contact her rep ASAP before the hearing. But can they do this when there is no proof?

This is the most helpful post on here - OP I hope you take note off all the points set out in the above.

Bumcake · Today 13:00
Ten pages, and OP has only posted once (2 days ago). Is it worth continuing to give advice?

A lot of the replies haven't been advice at all - unless you see all the blathering about stamping passports as "advice".
It's clear from OP's posts that the disciplinary meeting is scheduled to take place this coming week, so it's not too late to give meaningful advice today for them (or their "friend") to act upon.

This is all complete cobblers.

@AngelicKaty thank you, that’s hugely helpful!

No. It's the complete truth. Sorry you find it necessary to be offensive.

What colour do they stamp the passport? Is there a choice?

We don't know if she is an EU or UK citizen. In that case sge would not get a stamp anyway.

Well done Brexit. Not mentioning that you will now need a visa too. Well done Brexit, again.

It isn't cobblers. But again. It depends on what your off sick with. If your off sick with stress and you speak with your doctor and they agree that a break away from the cause of stress will help. All you have to do is inform your employer that is the case.

My partner had an operation and the operation coincided with a planned holiday. The surgeon said. Oh. All the better. You can relax better when your away. He told his employer and they were absolutely fine with it. They even said. Oh you didn't need to tell us it's fine.
So.it does depend on whe situation as a whole.

If you find "cobblers" offensive, you need a rethink.

What you posted is cobblers because yet again on MN there's an assumption that 'doctor's note' = 'trump card'.

There's no basis whatsoever for assuming that having a note makes you immune from disciplinary action or dismissal. It absolutely doesn't.

So saying that you can do whatever you like is just ridiculous, and people should stop saying it as if it's fact.

And then the nonsense about the employer "needing to prove it's a forgery..." to fire someone for gross misconduct isn't even worthy of a reply other than to point out its also utter cobblers.

They do stamp passports. We travel a lot and they always stamp the passports no matter which country you’re in

This, absolutely.
They are being allowed to do what ever they want. The executive principal even chooses who sits on the board in secondary investigations!
How is this just and fair.
Kangaroo Court!

Worst Education System in Europe. I long for their downfall.

They do in France

Hot news just off the press...sometimes they stamp your goddam passports and sometimes they don't.

That's been the case for decades.

Hope that helps.

Now can people let the OP help her friend?

A key point here is the one Ally is making. A Drs certificate doesn't mean people are immune from disciplinary action, if they are acting fraudulently. We have probably all heard of situations where employees who are long term sick with something like a back injury get filmed helping their mate lay a patio.

This particular instance seems to be an extraordinary run of bad luck. What with "accidentally" forgetting to book annual leave, being suspected of working/being on holiday abroad.

Of course employers are going to investigate. If the employee has done nothing wrong she needs to turn up with her union rep, answer their questions and provide any supporting evidence she has.

If she can't account for herself satisfactorily, then yes she could face disciplinary action. Including being sacked for gross misconduct.

If she isn't squeaky clean here, she may also wish to consider resigning before being fired. Her union rep will advise. Some organisations will still continue with disciplinary action after resignation but she should be invited to attend.

@SilverChampagne @flyingefffs they do stamp passports. I go to Europe every month.
Always stamped.
Unless you've got a European passport.

As previous posters have said this isn't about evidence it is about probabilities. It is not a court of law.
HR are on the side of the company and are there mainly to make sure that policies are followed and that the company isn't breaking any employment law.
The OP's friend can be dismissed if the person that chairs the meeting wants them out and follows all of the correct procedures and "genuinely" feels that the person has done wrong..
As for tribunals they are expensive, very few cases get there and very few people win them.

Every time I've been to EU/Schengen, France *3, Madeira and Tenerife, post Brexit, we've had them stamped in and out. Part of monitoring 90/180 surely.

I suspect if she was popular and hard working, no one would be being spiteful and throwing her under the bus. There is more she is not telling you.

I’m so glad you arrived several days after my original post to clear this up 😂

Enough with the fecking passports.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

RTFT

Muppets. 😳

@NeverDropYourMooncup

So he wasn't on holiday then.

What's your point?

The next person (after me) who mentions the stamping (or not) of passports needs banning from the site!!!

Not sure why this thread is attracting some anti-academy posts along with the endless posts about stamping passports. However:

• This is not the worst education system in Europe by a long way. It is now one of the best in terms of pupil outcomes
• Fraud happens in all types of school. See, for example, a case earlier this year where an employee stole £120k from a community school. There is no evidence that fraud is any more prevalent in academies than it is in other types of school
• Asset stripping an academy is well nigh impossible. The main assets are the land and buildings. Whilst these nominally belong to the academy trust, they cannot use them for anything other than running a school, nor can they sell them. If any of the property is no longer required for the school, they have to get the Secretary of State's approval to cease that use. The Secretary of State may then order that they transfer the land to the LA or the government. If neither of those is ordered, the academy trust will have to pay the government the full current market value of the land before it can dispose of it. Difficult to see how that allows an academy trust to asset strip
• I have come across poor HR practice at all forms of school. At many schools, the most you would get for an appeal would be an appeal to the governors

Get a union rep on the case, if she doesn't already have one. If non on site contact the actual union. Consider a Solicitor as well.
Avoid those back stabbers as well, Gain as much physical evidence as you can