In-laws seeking legal right to access our children

[GoldPombear]

So, my in-laws are very difficult people. We have tried hard to maintain a positive relationship with them and there are bad times and more manageable times. But they essentially always cause me anxiety and cause my husband great upset and mental health breakdowns (he has generalised anxiety disorder). We have three children, and since our engagement, and then first pregnancy, the bad times have got worse.

More recently, things have been more settled, so we had been seeing them more (they live 130 miles away). However, they were/ are emotionally abusive and were physically abusive towards my husband in the past. So they don't have unsupervised contact with our three children (all under 6). (There is one exception, when our son was small we went to a funeral and they looked after him nearby while we were in the church service). However, we can never do enough, we are never in the right, they are very controlling and are incredibly entitled in relation to our children. When they have these horrible outbursts, they never apologise, they blame us and then start throwing money at the situation, bug presents etc. However, they haven't directly done anything to harm or upset our children, if they did it would be clear cut.

Out of the blue, they told us that they had met with a solicitor to get access to our children. I can't explain the visceral impact of hearing this. I do not trust them but I never thought they could stoop this low. Reading online it doesn't seem to say they have much of a case, though they have a lot of money they could throw at the situation if they wanted to. They seem to be seeking contact without us, but again I don't think this would be granted. Anyway, we suspect they have been told to sort the relationship with us, as they brought up going to mediation.

I think I'm asking what other people would do? I can't see how the relationship can be repaired from this and I'm not sure I want it to be repaired. But they aren't my parents and my husband is understandably very confused.

If the legal advice had told them they had a good case, I suspect they would have proceeded and we would have had a letter in the post. But now they haven't got the answer they wanted.

Would other people try and maintain this relationship? Or is all trust broken? I know they are relatives, but they have caused so much pain and stress and unnecessary drama ovet all the years i have known them, that I can't see much benefit for my children for us to continue this relationship......

He is very torn. I think he feels no contact is the way to go, but understandably this is very painful for him so he is taking his time to think about what to do next

Please don't muddy waters.

This is very much an open and shut case. They will not be granted access to the children.

Please can I adopt you as an honorary aunt/grandmother?

You sound absolutely lovely and those children and families are very lucky to have you in their lives 😊

The thing with mediation is that it implies some sort of basic right that you are seeking to remove. But they never had any entitlement to what they are demanding. Mediation is a negotiation. I wouldn't even entertain it - as a op says, it's just muddying the waters.
The very idea of this, whether they try to go to court or not, would be an automatic end of all contact. It's an irretrievable breakdown in the relationship between your dh and his parents and I can't see a court forcing you to allow unsupervised contact in these circumstances. Courts can't just give away rights to other people's children willy nilly!

@Stath

Absolutely you can if you live in Manchester 😁

I have always loved being with children. I was sad when I realised that I wasn't going to have any of my own.
I thought though that it wasn't ideal to have a child in order to meet a need in me . The best reason to have a child was because you had love you wanted to give to one. Then I decided that if I had that kind of love to give, there were plenty of children and families out there who could use it. I could either just keep on being upset about not having my own or get out there and love the children who came my way!

It is of course really different to actually being a parent and has it's own challenges but I love it. I'm grateful to the parents who are willing to share their children with me and hope I can contribute positively into their lives while just enjoying the children. Basically part of me is still a big kid at heart who loves to play. I enjoy hearing things from a child's point of view and find their enthusiasm for life really encouraging!

I'd go no contact with them both. They don't have a leg to stand on but clearly they're not suitable people to be around your children.

The best thing to do @GoldPombear is seek legal advice from a family lawyer.

Explain your situation and get specific personslised information and advice. I am pretty sure your DH's parents have no entitlement to your children, but it is best to get that detailed in writing by someone who has all of the facts of your situation plus, a proper understanding of UK family law.

Or the law in the country you're living in. (I am assuming that you live in England/UK).

At least they're over 100 miles away.

Hey @GoldPombear how are things going?

Hi, thanks for checking in. The in laws went totally silent on us. But still nothing in the post, so I don't know if they are progressing with legal action or not. They then asked to speak to my husband, but that hasn't happened yet. So we are still in limbo a bit. Feeling quite stressed about it all to be honest!

The twats have gone silent and there's nothing in the post because they don't have a leg to stand on. They now want to speak to your DH because they want to try and browbeat him into submission. Just ignore them and block them.

And consider moving miles away from them so they have no idea where you are.

What vile horrible people. I can't begin to imagine how you're both feeling. You have my sympathy@GoldPombear .

Mediation is usually the first step before court and cases that go straight to court are usually due to DV. If you do decide to go, check that you don't have to pay for the mediation yourself.

We had one mediation session and discovered we had to pay as did my partners ex (it was around £140 per side)

So my advice would be to not go.

But still nothing in the post, so I don't know if they are progressing with legal action or not.

Legal action takes months and the fact you are ignoring them rather than reacting to the threats in their solicitor's letter means they don't know what to do next.

Just keep ignoring them and more importantly keep your children completely away from them.

Yes, I think you're right that's what the aim of the phonecall will be, to make us question ourselves and act like starting legal action was a reasonable thing to do. So fed up of this drama

Thanks for this advice. I would have no idea that you had to pay for mediation! I would have thought the costs would be paid by those pushing for it.

Whilst the wider family (ie grandparents) are now seen to be an important part of a child's development, where there has been domestic abuse it is unlikely they will get far. Having said that - because they've had a relationship
with your children already, the court may take the view that it is the children's right to continue that relationship.

I wouldn't worry about expensive solicitors - let them spend the money. Whilst you do have to attempt mediation if you are the applicant(s) in child proceedings, if you are the respondent and you don't engage in mediation, the mediator will supply the applicant with a MIAM certificate with which to make the initial application.

Thing is, as these people don't have Parental Responsibility, they will also need to put in a C2 application to request permission to apply to court in the first place. You can oppose their application with a statement and with evidence. There are several very good groups on a well known social media platform where you can obtain free Family Law / Child Arrangements Order advice, and I would absolutely recommend you join them.

Just checked on this thread and saw your reply, I'm very close to Manchester! 😂

😂😁😂

I'm so sorry, OP, this sounds incredibly stressful. I too have very difficult in-laws and I can imagine how you might feel. My main advice is that your husband talks to a counsellor/therapist. My husband had a lot of therapy which has helped him (and, by extension, us) a lot. I don't think we would have been able to weather all the storms without some outside support; it had to be someone who wasn't me, although I was of course supportive too, but it needs to be someone professional and impartial.

To start with he could look up NAPAC - I think they have a helpline - and/or talk to his GP about possible counselling options. The NHS provision will be limited but there might be some low cost options. He could also check his employee benefits as some include personal counselling.

If I were you I would agree to a MIAM - this is done separately and the aim is to establish whether mediation is appropriate. In this case you can explain that it's not due to their abuse of your husband in the past.

I see no reason why you should agree to unsupervised contact in mediation or in court. NC is the only way to go, I think. If you are concerned about legal costs, perhaps look into free or low cost options for initial advice. There's Child Law Advice (there's a helpline, email enquiry option, and paid for callback service) and your local Citizens Advice might be able to signpost you to local law clinics or solicitors offering a free half hour.

Be less available.. Back away. Make 2025 the year you never see them...

But they are crazy.

They have no legal case at all.

There’s no right for grandparents to see grandchildren without their parents.

There’s no legal right for anyone to separate children from their parents at any time except if the parents are demonstrably a danger to them. Even if the police want to interview a child, the parent has to be there!

These people are batshit, but also idiots. How could they possibly think that trying to get a lawyer to force you to hand over your children to them would do anything but make you back far, faraway?

They are batshit. Of course they don’t have any legal right to see your kids without you. I’m glad a solicitor seems to have cleared that one up.

I hope they're just trying to scare you into giving in them what they want and you don't need to do mediation or go to court. If they do try to set up mediation you can check with the mediator about costs before agreeing. Some mediation places use a sliding scale so the more well off party will end up shouldering more of the cost. You could counter offer with a cheaper place if they propose a more expensive one. You can also do a lot of the leg work and early stuff yourself and get a barrister for the in court bit to keep costs down.

They are quite mad. They have no legal right to access to your children. None. I would be refusing any further contact with them. Change your phone numbers / email addresses and then look to relocate away from them and don't communicate any further with them. They were abusive to your husband and have been abusive to you. Protect your children from these people.

So after sending a solicitor's letter and getting no response from us (we were going to respond but were getting legal advise and so on so hadn't done so immediately) a family member told them that we were not going to go to mediation ( we hadn't actually decided) . Suddenly then we got another letter with the action being retracted. So bizarre. We think the solicitor must have told them that they didn't have a case to proceed with taking us to court, as all the advice we got seemed to say that this was a ridiculous case given that they had no caring responsibilities for our children (and it was not a situation where divorce or death of the parents to deal with).

My husband is getting very good counselling from someone who is extremely experienced with these kind of situations. However, since this we have heard from a family member that my father in law is telling people if the relationship with us breaks down he is going to kill himself. (For context my mother in law has told my husband in the past that she is going to kill herself and that if she does it will be my husband's fault). I just can't comprehend people being so vile and manipulative to their CHILD. My husband is stressed and heartbroken, he doesn't want to have a relationship with them, but how is anyone meant to deal with that kind of threat? I feel awful for him and totally disgusted by the behaviour of his parents. I don't know how to help him? I really feel like the suicide talk is a threat and manipulation to try and get us to be involved, but how are you meant to deal with people like this?! I do feel like our children might have had a very lucky escape from having a toxic relationship with them, which is a positive.....

So when it has become clear to them that their "legal action" is entirely without foundation they are now resorting to emotional manipulation by threatening to harm themselves. They are toxic. Cut contact entirely with then. Don't put yourself and your husband through the ordeal and don't expose your children to these manipulative abusive people. Change your number and email address and move away so they can't contact you and don't know where you are.