Legal processes don’t work : or perhaps just work for solicitors?

[NamechangedforET]

I have brought a claim against my employers which is due to be heard in mid July. We are meant to be exchanging witness statements today. Their solicitors have asked to extend the deadline as they have more documents they want to disclose. They asked for a further two weeks : I suggested one week as I need time to consider their statements and prepare for the tribunal. Today they have informed me that they have more than 200 documents they want to disclose. How is that reasonable? I am a litigant in person, work full time and am disabled. How can I possibly deal with that? I have emailed the Court for advice (they gave today’s date in the Case Management Orders). Just utterly fed up : it’s impossible. How can we claim to have a fair and just legal system when it’s acceptable for solicitors to behave like this?

Yes, this. Point out that the delays have been caused by the respondent, that the process has already taken a long time and it is affecting your mental health and that you are ready for the hearing so it is unreasonable to delay for so long simply for the availability of their chosen counsel. And ask for the matter to be re-listed for the first available tribunal date.

Thank you. Apologies if my post wasn't clear. The Tribunal Office postponed the hearing because there wasn't a judge available to hear the case- even though it had been scheduled for almost two years.

The tribunal office then asked for dates when we were available for the postponed hearing to be moved to. I said anytime as I am keen to get this resolved. The Respondent said their counsel isn't available this year and only has limited availability next year.

I agree that they should be asked to find alternative counsel but apparently it doesn't work like that.

I just dont think it's fair that I have to wait that long for my claim to be heard. Another sign of how the legal system just doesn't work (unless you have lots of resource). It's just so unfair- they already have the advantage of legal representation which I can't afford and now I feel I am being further penalised because their counsel isn't available. AIBU?

Good luck. Take comfort from the fact they doubled their offer immediately.

Agree with advice above re emailing Tribunal. Issue unfortunately is the absolute travesty of the current state of our the Tribunal system, it is virtually impossible to get anything done. When you finally do get to the hearing though the Judge will bend over backwards to help you as a litigant in person, so just do the best you can with witness statements etc.

Notwithstavding that are you really sure you don’t want to settle? Sounds like they may be prepared to go higher. Did you have a pay cut. - obviously don’t know your annual salary etc but if you remain employed they look at your loss and even with injury to feelings etc awards in Tribunals aren’t often that high.

The fact the hearing was postponed due to lack of a judge does not stop you telling the tribunal about the effect on your mental health and stating that their lack of counsel availability is not a good reason to push the hearing out at least another 10 months. I can't guarantee the tribunal will be able to arrange an earlier date, but you should definitely try.

The Tribunal have written saying the case will be heard in twelve months time!!

The letter is from the guy I spoke to at the Court (an admin officer). Does anyone know if there is anyone else I can write to about appealing the decision? We haven't been allocated a judge so I presume I can't write to them but there must be someone with oversight of the Court and when cases are heard?

I have been invited to a meeting with my Line Manager and HR tomorrow. There are rumours that they are going to try and get rid of me - either by making me redundant or dismissing me . I dont know on what grounds they could dismiss me - I haven't done anything wrong (no performance issues and I haven't been off sick recently), only thing has been the ET. It's not my fault it has been postponed for a year. It's not what I wanted. Am really scared/ worried. Has anyone else experienced anything similar?

I assume that I just go and make notes. I'm not in a union and haven't told anyone I work with what is going on (trying to be professional- moral is really low and I don't want to add to it). It will be a zoom meeting so can do it from home. So scary.

I suspect they will offer you a settlement agreement. Don't commit to anything. If they do offer an agreement, they should include an amount towards solicitor's fees so you can get proper legal advice.

So you disclose what you have and they do the same, So you think 'yeah but they have more than me' means the court is just going to say 'right you win?'

You are not getting what you want so it's unfair?

I am sorry if my posts weren't very clear. I don't expect to win (I know decisions can be tight and I am a litigant in person so the odds are probably stacked against me) what I have found difficult (and what I hadn't anticipated) is that the Respondent hasn't adhered to the case management orders (especially around disclosure and witness statements) and has been difficult about including my documents in the bundle they were asked by the Tribunal to prepare. This , alongside working full time, has impacted upon my ability to prepare for the hearing and produce statements etc.

I have also found the delays and postponements in holding the hearing difficult. The Tribunal had nearly two years to plan for the hearing but it was cancelled on the day of the hearing (as no judges were available) and I am told it can't be rescheduled for another year. This does make things difficult- practically and health wise (they are still my employer) it is a huge strain.

These are issues with the legal process rather than the evidence. If the case was determined just on the evidence that would, of course, be entirely fair but unfortunately so many other issues see to come into play that prior to this experience I had been unaware of.

Tribunals are underfunded and overstretched, so delays do happen I'm afraid. However, as I've explained before, your employer's failure to comply with the case management order and refusal to include your documents in the bundle makes it more likely you will win.

Thank you. I am extremely grateful to you and other posters for so generously sharing your time and expertise. It really has meant such a lot. Thank you.

Good luck with it today.

Take notes, don't agree to anything. Stop the meeting if you feel that you need someone with you.

I'd also write up what happened and send it as a written record so they can't change things afterwards.

Thanks for everyone's help. I had the meeting and was told there is no role available for me. I am allowed/encouraged to look for another post within the organisation but they didn't mention what happens if I can't find a role (ie redundancy or dismissal) and what the timeframes are. Said they will put everything in writing. I am afraid I got upset - ridiculous because of course this will happen if you take legal action.

Will see what they put in writing and then consider next steps. Thanks for everyone's help and advice I am very grateful.

Hello

I hope you dont mind my coming back to this thread. It has been a really helpful source of support and made me feel less alone. Thank you.

A few things have happened since I last posted:

1. My employers have increased their offer to settle the ET to 50K; but
2. (they insist completely separate/independent to the ET) they have also said that they are unable to accommodate my reasonable adjustments and that I have four months to find a new role or will be dismissed. This is obviously very worrying. I have started applying for new roles but am stressed about it all. Will keep going but am worried that I won't be presenting myself in my best light/am very anxious.

I am trying to get legal advice (some have quoted five figure sums) and am waiting for a response from Advocate etc (they have previously said the case is too complex to help).

Hope you don't mind my posting here - just wondered if there was anything else you would do in my situation? Thank you once again. You have been amazing.

I can't comment on whether this is a reasonable offer.

If they dismiss you it may be an unfair dismissal and disability discrimination. Their current approach of giving you a deadline is clearly an attempt to get you to leave voluntarily, making it hard for you to pursue a claim against them. If they have put this in writing, I suspect an employment tribunal would take a dim view, but a solicitor who specialises in employment law would be better placed to advise on this. If I were them, rather than simply dismissing you I would look to get a settlement agreement in place. This would result in them paying you a further significant sum of money in return for which you would agree to leave and would give up your right to take them to tribunal.

Thank you for your reply. I am, as always, very grateful.

I do think the approach they have taken is a bit odd. Their communication hasn't been good - despite initial assurances that they would write to me explaining what was happening and why, in practice they have been reluctant to do so. They have sent me some information by email but the rest has been in face to face meetings. Lots of questions remain unanswered (eg which of the reasonable adjustments they can't accommodate and why) but the overall message is clear - they would like me to leave.

I understand they don't want me to continue working for them. I suppose this is the inevitable consequence of raising an ET (I did do it reluctantly after working for them for over twenty years but I felt I had no alternative - it couldn't continue as it was). My performance and attendance are okay/ no issues so I suppose dismissing me because of my disability/reasonable adjustments was the only grounds on which they felt they could act, but it feels odd given I have already raised an ET claim about discrimination and victimisation.

I would probably have taken the 50k (despite it being less than the schedule of loss ) just to get it over with but given the dismissal issue feel I probably can't (it is also much less than I would have got had I been made redundant). Disappointingly they have given me a tight deadline for responding to the offer (despite the hearing not being until next year) so I am feeling a bit pressured by it all.

It all feels a mess and I am not very clear on my options eg would I just expand my existing ET claim if I was dismissed (continuous action) or have to raise a new one. I suppose these are issues for a lawyer but those I have spoken to so far are expensive- saying they would need a hefty payment just to read the documents. I will keep looking for an employment lawyer, try the law clinics once they open after the summer break and do some research online. All a bit tricky.

I am sorry if this is a bit rambling - I am feeling a bit overwhelmed by it all (life changing stuff) and I haven't really got anyone to speak to irl.

Anyway thanks again for all your help and patience with me. I really do appreciate it.

Gently, I would be amazed if they left the door open for you to continue to tribunal if they pay you £50k. They may not have said it yet, but it would likely come with a settlement document.

IANAL (though I have been made redundant and raised a grievance etc!) and would bow to prh on this - but given incompetence to date, @prh47bridge , do you think it’s more likely that they expect this £50k to cover a settlement rather than expecting to pay settlement monies on top?

It is partly because of their incompetence to date that I think they may end up offering a further settlement if OP doesn't leave voluntarily. They probably don't expect to pay a further settlement, but they may have to if they want to avoid OP taking them straight back to tribunal for unfair dismissal and discrimination. They may be able to avoid this if they include a settlement agreement with the £50k offer, but the deadline to leave and the other things OP has posted suggests they haven't done that.

Since they clearly want her out, the sensible thing would be for them to offer a settlement agreement now, in which case there would be no need to give OP a deadline. I obviously don't know enough about the case to be sure, but a lot of what OP has posted suggests to me that they aren't listening to the advice they are being given by their lawyers.

It all feels a mess and I am not very clear on my options eg would I just expand my existing ET claim if I was dismissed (continuous action) or have to raise a new one

This is not proper legal advice. However, I would expect the idea is that you withdraw your claim in return for receiving the £50k. If that is the case, unless they put some kind of agreement in place preventing you from taking any further action against them you would start a new claim for unfair dismissal and discrimination if they sack you without a further settlement.

Op how much is your salary and how much would you redundancy payment be? It must be a contractual redundancy payment if it would be over 50k.

is the claim just for failure to make reasonable adjustments under the equality act?

is the role redundant or are they saying it’s untenable because of the claim (in which case they’ve probably just created a victimisation claim which improves your bargaining position)

Thank you for your replies and sorry that it is all so complex.

I did ask if the offer was conditional on my leaving work but was told no - they have said that it is to settle the ET claim (for disability discrimination and victimisation). They claim them informing me that they cannot accommodate my reasonable adjustments and that I have four months to find a new job or will be dismissed is entirely unrelated to the ET...

They haven't mentioned redundancy but under my contract I would have been entitled to circa three times the settlement offer.

They have had lots of legal advice (I dont know if they have followed it or what it said). I am told the offer is without prejudice and to avoid further legal costs/ not a reflection of the strength of my case.

By the time the ET is actually heard it will be over two years/nearly three since I first put in my claim and over five since the problems all started - not sure I fancy going through all of this again but need to find out about/consider the options. Scary!

Under your contract you would be entitled to £150,000 redundancy pay? Surely not. What is your salary?

Honestly, as an HR professional who deals with lots of ETs, have a think about whether this is worth it. It’s a decision only you can make but realistically it will consume another year of your life and you are by no means guaranteed to win. I appreciate the depth of emotion around it but given they seem prepared to settle at a semi sensible level, I would be tempted to explore this option and see what they will give you to exit.

I know it feels unfair, but remember even if you win: for them, it’s a problem at work. Annoying to lose, but not upsetting. For you, it might be devastating and I think cutting your losses and settling might be an easier way forward.

Best of luck, whatever you decide.