Can my ex stop me moving abroad with the children?

[ManicPanicAddict]

I'm a teacher and I have the opportunity to take up an amazing job (2 year contract) abroad. It comes with a house, flights for all, medical insurance for all, paid school fees etc. Ex husband has EOW and some holiday contact that adds up to 80 days a year. I haven't broached the idea with him yet but we talked about doing a similar thing when we were married, and agreed it would be an amazing opportunity for DC.

If I said he could still have the same number of days contact (school holidays), can he stop me going? I know he can apply for a prohibitive steps order but surely a judge wouldn't agree it on those terms? We don't have a child arrangement order in place or anything, but it is stated in our financial order that he has EOW.

Any advice welcome

Congratulations! I’ve been teaching overseas for over 20 years and have 3 children (with husband). I say this because why not approach the situation with your ex husband about the opportunities for your children; learning a different language, exposure to different cultures, becoming a third culture kid etc. You don’t say where the school is; this might make a difference to your ex. I hope that you reach an agreement as it’s an amazing opportunity for you all.

Yes, you would have to get his permission. Of course you would. Otherwise you are abducting his child (as most women on this forum seem to assume a man is trying to do if he e.g. asks for his children's passports or copies of their birth certificates).

Would you be happy to only see your children during school holidays, at intervals of months at a time? For you not to be able to see them every week or two, not be able to visit if they are ill or in hospital, not be able to attend school plays, parents evenings etc. Would you be ok if a judge said that was acceptable?

You need to talk to your children's other parent.

Some useful info here:

[[https://www.majorfamilylaw.co.uk/moving-abroad-with-your-child-after-divorce-the-law/

You could leave the children with him ?

See how did that make you feel ? It's unfair to the children and the father to separate them and then there are the legal implications

Yes, you need permission otherwise it would be classes as abduction as PP said. He could perhaps get a PSO but there would need to be intent I believe, which there kind of is maybe.

I think he could also go to court for a CAO and have it set in writing which again would perhaps state you are not to relocate overseas. Pretty sure there are others out there who are required to stay in the area too and not move far away within the UK as it's to maintain a relationship with the parent's.

You would need to talk to him about it I guess and it depends on what he is like. If it was me, I wouldn't be happy with that, as I assume you wouldn't it the shoe was on the other foot. If anything that would spur me into court.

Remember in the courts eyes it's not about opportunities for you, it's about the children and their relationship with both parents. Unless he agrees it would impact that relationship.

How would you feel if he suggested doing the same, taking your children abroad and you not seeing them for long weeks at a time?
How would you organise those holiday contact times? Who would pay for the flights? Who would accompany them back for the UK? What happens when you decide you want to use some of those holidays to do activities/travel in the country you're in?
The fact you discussed it when married is a red herring. He would have been there with them on the trip and not separated for long periods from them.

Yes he can stop you and he probably should. Cutting out a regular contact arrangement is not in the children's best interests.
Once you seperate and have kids you have an obligation to promote their relationship with their other parent, that trumps any great 'opportunity' that living abroad provides.

you would need his permission if he has parental rights.

Depending on your relationship could you simply approach him and say you have this opportunity, you appreciate it would mean a different access set up for 2 years but could he give it some thought.

He has every right to say no, but you have every reason to ask him to at least consider it.

i think realistically you’d have to cover costs of flights for kids to go back and forth etc.

If your relationship is not on good terms and he is likely to say no, then it probably won’t happen

As others have said- how you would you feel if the situation was reversed? You can ask, of course, but he can equally object.

Don't go without his support as a judge would take a very dim view of you acting with disregard to his PR.

You would have to have a plan for how the children would see their father regularly. Who pays for travel and who would escort the children.

I'm not sure I would like to have my children in another country and only see them via flights. Would you offer to pay for him to gave accommodation & flights so he can come over to see the children?

He can’t stop you going, but he can apply to stop your children going.

How likely is it that he would want them living with him full time? Because that is what he would have to offer to be able to go to court, and then you’d have them in the holidays etc?

How old are you children and would they want to go? As depending on their ages, the court would take their opinion into account also.

You need either his consent or a court order to allow you to take your children out of the country. He doesn't need a prohibited steps order to stop you. If you try to take your children out of the country without his consent or a court order you will be committing a criminal offence.

If he does not consent, the courts will look at what is in your children's best interests. I am not going to guess what the courts would decide, but I'm afraid it is possible they would decide that your children should stay in the UK.

Is leaving the children with him an option? I think it would be quite disruptive for your child given they have significant contact with him.

How old are the kids?

Would they even want to be flying back and forth to be able to see their Dad?

Wow. Quite a lot of venom considering this isn't AIBU.

DC are old enough to fly as unaccompanied minors but I get 2 return flights a year for all of us as part of the package.

No, there is no way I would go without them but there is also no way I could provide the standard of living/opportunities here as I could there. The school is very prestigious and the country is amazing for families. It really is the opportunity of a life time.

They love their dad but are very much 'mummy's girls' and I really don't think they would mind seeing him just in the holidays. Friends of ours have Co-parented internationally and it has worked very well.

I will have a chat with ex and see what he says. Hopefully he will see this is an amazing thing for our DC and not cause grief

Very few airlines actually allow unaccompanied minors, the ones that do are the more expensive ones generally.
It's not venom to ask you to consider what a huge ask this is of your ex and how much damage can be done to a parental relationship with a distance of this type.

If my children were being moved abroad and I might only see them at holidays I don’t think I’d class my objections as ‘causing grief’.

That's interesting - I don't read venom at all. Just posters pointing out the legal position.

You obviously want to take this career opportunity and that's fair enough but you do have 2 children to consider. Do they want to go - if they are old enough to fly home unescorted they will have opinions too ?

Does he have a job that would facilitate 80 days off during school holidays?

Which posts do you consider venomous? Many people are simply putting forward an opposing view for you to consider.
I agree that you ex having reservations about this would not equate to "causing grief." Poor bloke - you are proposing stopping (effectively) him seeing his kids regularly for up to two years.
One more thing: if you are providing your kids with a much better standard of living for two years, have you thought how they are going to re-adjust when they return home?

It's not venom it's common sense and based on how you are coming across. Even now in your response you are looking at this relocation as an amazing opportunity, which it very may well be but you are totally missing the point that it may very likely disrupt the relationship with the father.

It doesn't matter whether you feel they are more attached to you, that's your view and opinion and doesn't outweigh the other parents part in their life.

How is it venemous to ask you to consider how you would feel if it was the other way around? It isn't at all. In fact it's a mature unselfish way of looking at it.

Obviously he can stop you but hopefully he can see how much this would benefit his DC and will agree to it. I think you need to approach him with the opportunity and try to reach an agreement as if he decides to oppose it, he will make it impossible for you.

I moved abroad (within Europe) with my young DC but my DH didn't oppose it and in fact he enjoyed coming to out to visit them regularly. The DC went to visit him in the holidays. I think it can work and can be a very positive experience if everyone is on board.

Pp