Can my ex stop me moving abroad with the children?

[ManicPanicAddict]

I'm a teacher and I have the opportunity to take up an amazing job (2 year contract) abroad. It comes with a house, flights for all, medical insurance for all, paid school fees etc. Ex husband has EOW and some holiday contact that adds up to 80 days a year. I haven't broached the idea with him yet but we talked about doing a similar thing when we were married, and agreed it would be an amazing opportunity for DC.

If I said he could still have the same number of days contact (school holidays), can he stop me going? I know he can apply for a prohibitive steps order but surely a judge wouldn't agree it on those terms? We don't have a child arrangement order in place or anything, but it is stated in our financial order that he has EOW.

Any advice welcome

Can he get 80 days off work to have them during school holidays?

You make this sound so simple and reasonable, but in practical terms it's really not. And that's without the emotional side of not seeing his kids reglarly for two years. Which I would never agree to as a parent.

No absolutely not. To be fair I very much doubt my husband (or any father worth his salt) would either. I have never understood anyone thinking EOW was enough 🤷🏻‍♀️ so yeah that’s a fair point.

I wouldn't agree to this if these were my children. A lot of men aren't happy to only have eow either, but the kids have to live somewhere and it's not always in their best interests to split time strictly 50/50!

It would require a great deal of trust on his part that you would send them home for long parts of the school holidays and that you would return when the 2 years were up. I wouldn't trust an ex to do that tbh.

And I'd hate to have my dc so far away that I couldn't get to them quickly if needed.

And for you, I think you are not fully appreciating how much you will miss your dc when they are in the UK and you are off work and without them. Do the holidays match up with UK school dates - this may or may not be a factor. Could he get time off when your kids have school holidays?

Unless he's the type to really value the abroad experience above most other considerations I think you are into a loser here.

I would speak to him and offer the suggestion of the girls living with him, I know this has been suggested by a couple of different people I know. Both times Dad back peddled so fast and "of course I'll be devastated but I won't stop you going"

Careful though, in case he rips your arm off to have them!

Surely the sensible thing would have been to sort this out with him before you interviewed for the job of a lifetime?

You've basically set him up to fail, in that him, perfectly reasonbly, saying know will be seen to be depriving you of this thing. And of course you'll feed it to your kids as this great adventure that they should hav ebeen going on but Daddy said no.

The fair thing, for him and the kids, would have been for you to sound him out about whether he'd give permission for you to take them abroad for two years, before you actually looked into this kid of job.

I don't believe for minute that you thought you could just take them without his permission. It seems that you just wanted to present him with a fait accompli so that he'll feel that he has no choice.

Saying know? Saying no!

A friend of mine is a family solicitor and dealt with these situations. According to her, it’s quite rare for courts to side with the parent whop wants to remove the children. One case I know of, that was agreed, was the mum wanted to move back to Oz with her child. The child’s father had not had contact for 2 years but as she needed his permission it ended up in court. It was approved due to his lack of parenting! But she had to agree to pay for him to fly to Oz once a year. 3 years on, he’s never taken her up on visiting. Another case, a mother wanted to return to the east coast USA with her children. Father saw the children very regularly. Courts agreed but she had to agree to fly her 3 children back to the UK 3x a year. They’re all under 10, so the she has to fly with them. Children now spend every Christmas, Easter and 1 month of the summer hols with their father, flown at their mother’s expense. She also pays for the father to take unpaid leave in the summer.
Are you prepared to have this expense and lack of time with your children?

I moved overseas as a child with both my parents. The other thing to consider is if it actually would be good for the children. I LOVED it, learned the language, made friends, have a lifelong love of travelling and food. My brother, no. Introvert, struggled, not OK. And I knew a lot of immigrant/ex-pat kids who were the same as him.

They love their dad but...he's disposable for 10 months of the year and it's a really fancy school?

In answer to your question, yes of course he can stop you.
This is HIS relationship with HIS children we are talking about here.
All you are seeing here is the advantages for you. This is something you can do when your children are older, out of education and making their own way in the world.

my husbands ex moved abroad with their son when he was 8. It was to go back to her home country though rather than for a job.

My husband was devastated - but she was miserable in London and really wanted to be back near her family. And he did want her to be happy.

We made it work - he's 16 now - when he was younger my husband usually flew there for his birthday every year, ex would stay at her parents and let them have her house to themselves.

we alternated Christmas / easter hols

he came to us for half the summer

My husband would do random long weekends in the year to visit too

as time went on it got easier and easier and by 13 he was flying alone to us and now he just comes whenever he feels like it really we just pay for his flight

relationship with his mum her partner and us is great now and we often stay at theirs and sometimes we do a house swap (we stay in theirs with our daughter and husbands son)

I hope you can work something out

How old are the children and where are you moving to? Middle East? China?

I can't believe you would say no way would I be leaving them but then on the other hand what's wrong with me taking them...mummy's girl's or not ....and it's not just them minding seeing him or not it's the future relationship as well as his feelings.

I think you're way off the mark with all of this.
There was no venom, only answers you didn't like - and that's because you're being ridiculous thinking this is good for the kids.
It's not, they clearly need their Dad and this would really hurt their relationship with him.

Secondly your attitude to the Dad seems to be rather odd - just because you talked about doing this when you were together doesn't mean it's the same now - it's obviously going to be very, very different.
You also seem to assume he'll just be able to take 80 days of holiday off to have the kids when it suits you, which isn't how it works.

This plan is ill-conceived at best.

That’s an absolutely brutal thing to do to your ex and more importantly your children. They’re not just little extensions of you, they’re their own people with their own lives and relationships. I know a family where the mother did this and the children have held it against her for ever.

Venom?

Eh? Where?

Oh I see..... because some posters disagreed with you.

You are very blinkered here about what sounds like a wonderful opportunity for you, but utterly shit for him. And any response not in your favour is venom, and if he has the audacity to suggest no that would be 'causing grief.'

He is well within his rights to say no, obviously, so you'd be best off thinking of ways to sweeten this deal for him rather than your current utterly selfish line of thought.

'Hey ex, how do you feel about my taking a wonderful opportunity for me and taking your kids away from you? I'll get to have all my holidays on my own, how wonderful, a bit of life and freedom back. The world is my oyster. And I'll see the kids all the time. You'll have to go months without seeing them, and then use all your annual leave seeing only them. You won't get a solo holiday or one with friends any more. On top of that during your the remainder of your contact time that you'll have no annual leave left for, you'll have to sort and pay for childcare for them as they won't be in school (which of course they'll be when with me, so hey, bit cheaper for me). So it won't really be 80 days any more cos for at least half of it, you'll have to work. Anyway. Sounds awesome doesn't it? Surely you're not going to cause me any grief over this.'

I moved to England from the US to marry my English fiancé when my son was almost four-years-old. My ex-husband was not happy, at all, about my decision to leave the country with our son but I did eventually get his permission.

I did my very best to keep the connection between my son and his father throughout the years. This was in the '90's and it was more challenging but I did everything I could for them both. I did several trips to the city my ex lived in and didn't visit my family (they lived in a different city) because my son's visits to his father took priority. I even paid for my ex-husband's trips to England and he stayed in our home because I knew financially how difficult it was for him.

If I had the opportunity to live my life over, I would have not moved abroad and had my fiancé/husband move to the US instead.

My son is 31-years-old now and he acknowledges that he had a good childhood, a lovely family life with a decent stepfather and siblings and had amazing experiences living in a foreign country. However, he has never quite gotten over not growing up near his father. I suppose he feels this now as a father himself and especially as his father (my ex) is now 69-years-old and not in good health. I was too much in my own head about all the good things and fantastic life I would offer him but he only really wanted his father near him. I feel profound sadness that the reality was that I didn't put his needs first.

I just wanted to give you my perspective through my own experience and I wish you much luck in yours.

'No, there is no way I would go without them'
I think it's unfair to ask your ex to do something you would never contemplate yourself.
What about if the children stayed with dad the first year. And the second year with you.
Then it's even and you are both taking a loss but the children are gaining all round.

It seems that fathers are dispensable then. If they don't want to see their kids they are deadbeat dads, if the mother sees a great opportunity to move elsewhere he's supposed to agree , if the kids then have no relationship with him it's his fault , even if he can't visit as he would like. I mean, what is he supposed to do? Perhaps he might miss them, want to see them regularly and sees them slipping away from him? Or does he just throw in the towel?

As a parent, there is no way I would agree to this in his shoes. I don't see it as 'causing grief' though as you put it. I simply couldn't bear to be parted from them for extended periods of time like that. I'd like to think that seeing their father regularly is also of benefit to kids generally particularly when he is involved etc. it's definitely not a simple as being an amazing school opportunity for them

Like many others I'm interested to know how old the dc are.
OP yabmu and deep down you probably know that. There is no way on this earth I would have let either father of my dc take them abroad to live. Just wouldn't have happened.
This isn't about what you want, it's what is best for the dc they are not pawns and unless your ex is a complete waste of space it's likely he will object.

I suspect the OP won't be back.

I'd try and outline the plus points to him when you raise it. Is it a place he'd like to visit?

Is accomodation easily available? Would a few weeks over there appeal to him? Is he in a financial position to afford this kind of holiday?

Does he have support with childcare? I.e would his mum and dad do some of the looking after if the kids were back and he didn't have enough annual leave to take off every day of their stay.

If you can think through as many of the practical as well as financial obstacles before the conversation it might be useful. I think presenting it as 'i really want to give them this opportunity but what do you think/ would you like some time to think it over before we discuss it properly' is best.