Can my ex stop me moving abroad with the children?

[ManicPanicAddict]

I'm a teacher and I have the opportunity to take up an amazing job (2 year contract) abroad. It comes with a house, flights for all, medical insurance for all, paid school fees etc. Ex husband has EOW and some holiday contact that adds up to 80 days a year. I haven't broached the idea with him yet but we talked about doing a similar thing when we were married, and agreed it would be an amazing opportunity for DC.

If I said he could still have the same number of days contact (school holidays), can he stop me going? I know he can apply for a prohibitive steps order but surely a judge wouldn't agree it on those terms? We don't have a child arrangement order in place or anything, but it is stated in our financial order that he has EOW.

Any advice welcome

I agree. All this venom is too much for her 🤣🤣🤣

Can sugar coat and think of as many practicalities to make it seem better but at the end of the day, it's removing them from his life.

Not only that, he'd putting a lot of faith in upholding and arrangements made and if he did agree, once they are out of the country he hardly has a leg to stand on.

I would be interested to hear the ex's point of view on the matter.

Yes he could go to court to stop you taking them out of the country.

Do you think he is likely to?

Yes you need permission. If he isn't keen (don't blame him) why not give him full time custody?

Poor man. If he objects to his DC moving abroad and only seeing them a couple of times a year then he is "causing grief".
When you have children it's no longer about you and your great opportunity, your children come first.

This is spot on.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with you asking your ex, but you should present a more reasonable plan. I agree with posters who are saying twice a year is not enough. You should also agree to facilitate him visiting wherever you are relocating and be prepared to bare the financial burden.

It is a great opportunity for your DC. The expat/ third culture kids I know all loved it and it’s helped them career wise. If he says no though it’s a no.

Where would it out them in their schooling? Would you look to extend the contract? You say it's a great opportunity for their schooling, but where does it leave them in 2 yrs coming back to the British education system? I don't think people are being vitriolic towards you, but you see this as a slam dunk great opportunity for you and the kids, and he'd be daft not to agree- yet he will be giving up regular time with them during the month, and may not be able to facilitate more holiday time with work. It probably is a great opportunity, not denying that, but you can't just assume that the other parent will agree, and unfortunately sometimes with separated families, we don't always get to do what we want anymore.

I did this years ago, & it's mostly worked out for all concerned...but it's been a tricky journey, legally & in terms of subsequent relationships all round.

Mine have always spent court ordered holidays with their father. Don't underestimate how limiting that can be - I've so often put fun travel ideas on the back burner because the kids couldn't join me (although I've got to do some fabulous solo travelling...).

My ex was an absolutely copper bottomed abusive, rapey, LTB, Disney dad dickhead, whereas yours doesn't sound actively awful.

It's a legal nightmare (& expensive) & the mood has shifted since I did it - I'd say if he wants to go to court, your chances are below 50% now.

My youngest has also now decided she might fancy 6th form in the UK, which means living with her dad, & this is a worry because honestly - leaving aside the fact that he's an absolute prick - I wouldn't trust him to keep a Swiss cheese plant alive. But she has, of course, the right to make that choice. So you need to be aware of that possibility - if your dc decide once they're older to bail on you, they can.

Feel free to pm me, but I would say if he's not on board you're probably buggered.

Dc & I have zero regrets, though. It's been an absolute blast & their opportunities have been amazing.

So what happens after the two years at this amazingly prestigious school? Back home to what?

Do the children want to leave their friends, settle again socially for 2 years and be wrenched out again?

Have the indeterminate age children been told about this wonderful opportunity? If so, did you listen to their feelings about it?

The standard in international schools is a 2 year initial contract.

Then you can renew, or look elsewhere (often another international school).

Most of my colleagues with dc time their moves for end of key stage, for obvious reasons. Or they settle in & stay until the kids have completed their schooling.

It's not 'do these 2 years & then be yeeted back to the UK'!

International schools have unavoidably high turnover - lots of teaching staff just doing their 2 years to save a house deposit, or having a great time travelling the world in 2 year chunks.

Schools like to retain staff & often offer jolly good bonuses if you sign up to stay.

this was an arrangement my parents had as a child although we moved 4 hours away not abroad (from age of 8). I am very close to both my parents as an adult. I only saw my dad in holidays. BUT….
honestly it sucked. I was acutely aware I had a strange set up. I missed my dad. I hated having to travel every holiday. I wanted to see my dad but I also wanted to see my mates and when I was with him I didn’t really have any friends to see as I didn’t live there. I was very envious of my friends who had parents who were together and didn’t have all the hassle. My dad missed all my school plays, sporting matches, parents evenings etc which I got used to but looking back it is sad he wasn’t there.

but I made it to adulthood and have a happy relationship of my own. My dad worked hard to keep the contact when we weren’t together and that was the days before mobile phones.

I'm interested what country this is with two flights a year and 'great for families' as well as an offer coming through now (and presumably you're not talking about a September start!) - is this Southern Hemisphere somewhere with a different school year?

Appreciate the OP is probably not coming back, but just in case: OP you should also check if you need consent from the father or a court order for the country's visa process. You do where I am (they don't issue visas unless they know there child can legally be resident) but this isn't my country.

What is he like as a dad? Would he manage the kids on his own? You could ask him what he thinks of you taking the kids, if he says no let him know you are going so he will have the kids for a few years. He will probably change his mind.

Wow. Quite a lot of venom considering this isn't AIBU.

What venom???

All people said was to think about it from his side, was that what hit the nerve?

You say a lot of venom more like you don't like the answers. In no way shape or form is it good for children to be away from a present parent by using the excuse there's opportunities over there for them. Doesn't matter if there mummies girls this is not about you and what you want, you made children and have to act in there best interests and it's not basically separating them from there father. Of course your going to say hope he doesn't cause grief because you want your own way over this but again it's not about you and you can't say it's what was planned when we were married as the scenario is totally different now.

Even if their father agrees to it believing it will be a great opportunity for them or because he doesn't want to be seen as the parent who prohibited them from living in another country (imagine being in this positon, OP), it doesn't mean it will be good for your daughters. They are not yet mature enough to understand the consequences of this choice. They may be "mummy's girls" and not mind going a long time without seeing their dad now but what about when they grow up? Will they still think this was a good idea? Will their relationship with their dad be distant due to living 2 years appart? Will they judge this situation diferently as adult women?

In my family a cousin went through a similar situation. Her parents were divorced and she lived abroad with her mum for 2.5 years. Her dad only managed to visit her 4 times because it was a long flight away and she spent all school holidays with him. She was very close to her mum and had a good relationship with her dad but was ok with being appart and seeing him infrequently. She is now 37 and deeply resents her mum because she feels her decision to live abroad was mostly selfish and she is aware her dar was put under a lot of pressure to allow her to live abroad because she, as a child, was very excited with the prospect of living in a diferent country and her mum made it clear the only thing that could stop them was if her father said no, which changed the whole dinamic between father and daughter. Her mum is a nice person but she somehow thought her relationship with her daughter was more important than my cousin's relationship with her dad. Yes, they were closer but my uncle was also important for my cousin even if at the time she didn't realize this, being only 13.

@CorvusPurpureus I don't think the PP was doubting the OP's potential to continue being employed abroad - more highlighting the fact that if OP is presenting this to DC and the exH as "only for 2 years", that might well not be accurate.

Your post highlights this fact, so sort of agrees with the PP you are quoting - that in all likelihood the answer to the question "what happens after 2 years?" is NOT "DCs go back to the current status quo of a life in the UK with regular contact with Dad."

You come off worse here than you did in the OP and I didn't think that would be possible.

No way you'd go without them, but they love their dad, but they are 'mummy's girls' and you don't think they would mind? Fucking wise up, if they are indeed 'mummy's girls' then they won't be after this. If you were. Decent 'mummy', you wouldn't even pose this question to them and force them to choose whether to keep you happy or themselves happy.

I hope he does cause grief and I hope he goes for full custody. He deserves it, given you'd happily abduct his kids and let him see them once in a fucking blue moon.

Well he'd need to also offer her the same number of days contact as she has now I make it an equal offer.

I also think you are not thinking about this logically.
You would be moving to a new country without knowing anyone else. What if you fancied a night out ...kids off school sick

You are looking at this through rose tinted specs and being completely blinkered. I have worked in international schools in different countries. It's difficult.
Your children will have opportunities BUT they will definitely resent you dor separating them from their father and their families I have seen this so many times

'Wow. Quite a lot of venom considering this isn't AIBU.*
Venom? 😂
Where?

Obv the holidays will vary in your new country, but assuming it's similar to UK, which is 13 weeks so 91 days, you're offering him 80 days contact. So you're basically putting them on a plane every single school holiday. Every Xmas, all summer etc. Are you actually willing to give up every holiday with them? Can he actually manage in terms of leave etc to have them every holiday without them just being stuck in childcare 8-6 most weeks?
I think you should Def talk to him, but I'd also have a look what 80 days looks like for real