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Legal matters

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Letting ex take kids to africa

307 replies

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 12:17

So my ex is from a west African country, the kids are 8and 5. I’ve agreed for him to take the kids away for 3 weeks max after a long debate. I’ve never been there and they haven’t either so it would be an opportunity to meet their cousins, grandma and practice their language. I was already really anxious as he can be quite selfish and I wouldn't even know where they are exactly as people don’t have exact addresses there. I have phone numbers for his family but that’s about it. I spoke to them before but there is a language barrier.
he initially said i can come as well but when I said i’d join for a week only, he said it’s too much money to pay for me just to come for a week. Also declined when I said he could apply for a visa for me just in case as it’s again waste of money. I can’t afford to go and don’t really want to.
Anyway he booked them tickets for a month even though I said it’s 3 weeks max! He said it’s because the tickets were cheaper that away and he is their dad. So they will now miss 2,5 weeks school. I’m fuming. He has loads of money and hasn’t even had them for a night since moving out over a year ago. How can I trust him when he has no regard for what we agreed. I don’t want to stop them from going and don’t have money for solicitors but is there anything I can do to minimise any risk? Should I even be letting them go?
they want to go, but is it worth my anxiety?
should by teaching my son the phone numbers for British embassy by heart in case something happens 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️
aaarghhhhh

OP posts:
Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 18:05

DarkShade · 28/02/2023 15:48

I don't really get why you need a month's break with your new bf? I think I was 18 on a gapyear the last time I had an entire month to myself. Two weeks is surely time off if you want it to spend with new bf.

I have a full time job so if I take two weeks off to go to Cameroon then that’s fine but I won’t be able to take any more time off so I’ll be here but will be mostly working
obviously I’m going to prioritise my kids safety and happiness though!
im speaking to my ex tonight, I’ll see what he says and how I feel
yes, it’s frustrating the fgm comments when I said from the beginning it’s not my concern
a lot of comments have been helpful though so thank you!
ive spoken to a Cameroonian friend today as well which helped
my ex only has British nationality and so do the kids
i will have all their passports and my ex’s as they will be sent here with the visas
im leaning towards going with them for a couple of weeks for my sins

OP posts:
Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 18:06

LittleOwl153 · 28/02/2023 16:31

Everything else aside, others have said enough on this...

Make sure he knows you will BOTH get fined for the school absence - which will be significant for 2.5 weeks and he should pay both fines.

Check with school that with that long an absense (- assuming it runs into the summer holidays which might complicate things?) that the kids will retain their school places on return. If it is a high demand area/school they might not.

Get him to get the kids a phone which will work out there so that they can contact you when they want / if they need to.

School already said he would have to do the papers as it’s him taking them not me

OP posts:
Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 18:08

Fladdermus · 28/02/2023 16:49

Sorry, but my kids wouldn't be going any where near a country with areas so dangerous the government advise against any travel there.

www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/cameroon

That’s fine, what about if you yourself or your partner were from there in the area that the advice doesn’t apply to?

OP posts:
Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 28/02/2023 18:14

There are reports of an outbreak of a haemorrhagic fever in Kie Ntem Province, northern Equatorial Guinea. Travel is restricted in and around this area. You should be extremely vigilant in and near Kie Ntem in Equatorial Guinea, and in the neighbouring areas of Ambam, Kye-Ossi and Olamze in southern Cameroon, and Ntem and Woleu in Gabon. Check with local authorities before travelling.

It is more important than ever to get travel insurance and check it provides appropriate cover. See the FCDO’s guidance on foreign travel insurance.

You should read this travel advice in full, noting the areas to which the FCDO advises against all or all but essential travel. You should pay close attention to our Safety and security advice if you plan to travel to Cameroon. For more information, visit TourCMR, a National Travel Guide App.

General strikes (or ‘ghost towns’) are called in the North West and South West (Anglophone) regions for each Monday, with additional days often called in particular periods including February, May and October. Violence and travel disruption is regularly reported on these days. Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs) are increasingly being used by non-state armed groups and have previously been used to target civilians in the North West and South West regions. There have also been a number of reported civilian fatalities in these regions at or near checkpoints due to accidental discharge of weapons. If you decide to travel to, or within, areas of the North West and South West regions where the FCDO advises against all travel or all but essential travel, you should consider carefully the risks of travel, monitor developments closely, keep a low profile and minimise your movements. See North West and South West (Anglophone) regions

Political developments and increased tensions related to the North West and South West (Anglophone) regions could lead to isolated incidents of violence in other parts of the country. This could affect western interests, as well as places frequented by foreigners. You should enhance your vigilance and plan your movements carefully. In November 2020, a threat was made against diplomatic missions in Yaoundé, including the British High Commission. You should remain vigilant when moving around the city.

On 2 July 2022, an IED was detonated at Mokolo market in Yaoundé. Four people were injured in the explosion. On the 12 July 2022, another IED was detonated at the Mokolo Market in Yaounde, injuring one person.

This follows small IEDs being detonated in populated areas of Yaoundé and Douala between June 2020 and February 2021. It is possible that more attacks will occur in urban areas, or other locations around the country, in the future. You should remain vigilant and keep up to date with developments via the media and local authorities. See Political situation

Terrorists are very likely to try to carry out attacks in Cameroon, particularly in the Far North region. Attacks could be indiscriminate, including in places visited by foreigners such as restaurants, bars, markets, hotels, shopping centres and places of worship. The terrorist group Boko Haram and the Islamic State West Africa (ISWA) is active in the Far North region but attacks could occur anywhere, potentially including major towns and cities such as Yaoundé and Douala. There have been numerous suicide attacks since 2015, which have resulted in over 200 dead in the Far North region, although since 2017 these have been predominately adjacent to the border with Nigeria. Key targets have been large open markets, hotels, parks and sporting venues. There have also been hostages taken and heavy gunfights reported in Babouang and Mbarang in Adamawa region (Cameroon). See Terrorism

There is a heightened threat of kidnap to western nationals in the north of Cameroon, including in the major cities and along the border between the Far North region and Nigeria. Boko Haram has publicly threatened Cameroon with attacks and further kidnappings due to Cameroon’s involvement in the regional fight to counter Boko Haram.

There have been reports of criminality including large armed gangs and highway bandits, stopping travellers, taking hostages and demanding payment, particularly in the east of Cameroon, close to the Central African Republic (CAR) border. There are frequent instances of violence in CAR spilling across the border to Cameroon and following the disputed election result in CAR in December 2020, and consequent insecurity in that country, there is now an even greater likelihood of this occurring. See Crime

Nigerian military operations in the states of Borno, Yobe and Adamawa in Nigeria could have an impact across the border in Cameroon.

Avoid travelling at night across Cameroon unless absolutely necessary, due to risks from criminality, poor infrastructure and erratic driving.

There are increased reports of piracy in the Gulf of Guinea. Take great care when travelling in coastal waters, including the coastline of Cameroon and the Doula port. Despite the high crime levels, most visits to Cameroon are trouble-free. Only a few British nationals needed consular assistance in the past year.

If you’re abroad and you need emergency help from the UK government, contact the nearest British embassy, consulate or high commission. Consular support is severely limited in parts of Cameroon (particularly East, Far North, North-West and South-West).

Next :Coronavirus
View a printable version of the whole guide
Related content

About Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office travel advice
Support for British nationals abroad
Foreign travel checklist
UK help and services in Cameroon

have a nice holiday

FictionalCharacter · 28/02/2023 18:16

“i honestly don’t believe that he would leave them there. I mean despite being selfish he has already asked me for lifts to the airport etc so I do believe that they would all be returning, we were together 14 years some of that happy”
That makes no sense. How does him asking you for lifts to the airport make you believe they’ll all be returning?

You said upthread that you think there’s a 5% risk of him not bringing them back. For something catastrophic that’s a high risk! Would you get in a car if there was a 1 in 20 chance of it crashing? For very bad events an acceptable risk is more like 1 in a million.

You are obviously not comfortable about this or you wouldn’t have posted. Yet you keep posting more details and asking if people would still say no. Why are you trying to talk yourself into it?

For me it’s simple. He said he’d take them for 3 weeks. He’s now decided to take them for a month which is not what you agreed. They would miss 2.5 weeks of school and you’d be fined. Both of those would be a dealbreaker for me, it’s the originally agreed 3 weeks or nothing. If I had 3 weeks annual leave from work agreed for a holiday, I’d book flights for 3 weeks, not tell work I’m taking an extra week because the flights were cheaper! He doesn’t want you to go out for some of the time or get a visa. All of that equals a firm no.

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 18:17

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 28/02/2023 18:14

There are reports of an outbreak of a haemorrhagic fever in Kie Ntem Province, northern Equatorial Guinea. Travel is restricted in and around this area. You should be extremely vigilant in and near Kie Ntem in Equatorial Guinea, and in the neighbouring areas of Ambam, Kye-Ossi and Olamze in southern Cameroon, and Ntem and Woleu in Gabon. Check with local authorities before travelling.

It is more important than ever to get travel insurance and check it provides appropriate cover. See the FCDO’s guidance on foreign travel insurance.

You should read this travel advice in full, noting the areas to which the FCDO advises against all or all but essential travel. You should pay close attention to our Safety and security advice if you plan to travel to Cameroon. For more information, visit TourCMR, a National Travel Guide App.

General strikes (or ‘ghost towns’) are called in the North West and South West (Anglophone) regions for each Monday, with additional days often called in particular periods including February, May and October. Violence and travel disruption is regularly reported on these days. Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs) are increasingly being used by non-state armed groups and have previously been used to target civilians in the North West and South West regions. There have also been a number of reported civilian fatalities in these regions at or near checkpoints due to accidental discharge of weapons. If you decide to travel to, or within, areas of the North West and South West regions where the FCDO advises against all travel or all but essential travel, you should consider carefully the risks of travel, monitor developments closely, keep a low profile and minimise your movements. See North West and South West (Anglophone) regions

Political developments and increased tensions related to the North West and South West (Anglophone) regions could lead to isolated incidents of violence in other parts of the country. This could affect western interests, as well as places frequented by foreigners. You should enhance your vigilance and plan your movements carefully. In November 2020, a threat was made against diplomatic missions in Yaoundé, including the British High Commission. You should remain vigilant when moving around the city.

On 2 July 2022, an IED was detonated at Mokolo market in Yaoundé. Four people were injured in the explosion. On the 12 July 2022, another IED was detonated at the Mokolo Market in Yaounde, injuring one person.

This follows small IEDs being detonated in populated areas of Yaoundé and Douala between June 2020 and February 2021. It is possible that more attacks will occur in urban areas, or other locations around the country, in the future. You should remain vigilant and keep up to date with developments via the media and local authorities. See Political situation

Terrorists are very likely to try to carry out attacks in Cameroon, particularly in the Far North region. Attacks could be indiscriminate, including in places visited by foreigners such as restaurants, bars, markets, hotels, shopping centres and places of worship. The terrorist group Boko Haram and the Islamic State West Africa (ISWA) is active in the Far North region but attacks could occur anywhere, potentially including major towns and cities such as Yaoundé and Douala. There have been numerous suicide attacks since 2015, which have resulted in over 200 dead in the Far North region, although since 2017 these have been predominately adjacent to the border with Nigeria. Key targets have been large open markets, hotels, parks and sporting venues. There have also been hostages taken and heavy gunfights reported in Babouang and Mbarang in Adamawa region (Cameroon). See Terrorism

There is a heightened threat of kidnap to western nationals in the north of Cameroon, including in the major cities and along the border between the Far North region and Nigeria. Boko Haram has publicly threatened Cameroon with attacks and further kidnappings due to Cameroon’s involvement in the regional fight to counter Boko Haram.

There have been reports of criminality including large armed gangs and highway bandits, stopping travellers, taking hostages and demanding payment, particularly in the east of Cameroon, close to the Central African Republic (CAR) border. There are frequent instances of violence in CAR spilling across the border to Cameroon and following the disputed election result in CAR in December 2020, and consequent insecurity in that country, there is now an even greater likelihood of this occurring. See Crime

Nigerian military operations in the states of Borno, Yobe and Adamawa in Nigeria could have an impact across the border in Cameroon.

Avoid travelling at night across Cameroon unless absolutely necessary, due to risks from criminality, poor infrastructure and erratic driving.

There are increased reports of piracy in the Gulf of Guinea. Take great care when travelling in coastal waters, including the coastline of Cameroon and the Doula port. Despite the high crime levels, most visits to Cameroon are trouble-free. Only a few British nationals needed consular assistance in the past year.

If you’re abroad and you need emergency help from the UK government, contact the nearest British embassy, consulate or high commission. Consular support is severely limited in parts of Cameroon (particularly East, Far North, North-West and South-West).

Next :Coronavirus
View a printable version of the whole guide
Related content

About Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office travel advice
Support for British nationals abroad
Foreign travel checklist
UK help and services in Cameroon

have a nice holiday

Thanks for this. I’m aware of all this and yes something to think about.
however people are also advised around the world against going to London because of the likelihood of terrorist attacks
also that there are a lot of Cameroonian people in the uk who go to Cameroon to see their families every year..
my ex won’t be taking my kids anywhere near these troubled areas.

OP posts:
Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 18:21

FictionalCharacter · 28/02/2023 18:16

“i honestly don’t believe that he would leave them there. I mean despite being selfish he has already asked me for lifts to the airport etc so I do believe that they would all be returning, we were together 14 years some of that happy”
That makes no sense. How does him asking you for lifts to the airport make you believe they’ll all be returning?

You said upthread that you think there’s a 5% risk of him not bringing them back. For something catastrophic that’s a high risk! Would you get in a car if there was a 1 in 20 chance of it crashing? For very bad events an acceptable risk is more like 1 in a million.

You are obviously not comfortable about this or you wouldn’t have posted. Yet you keep posting more details and asking if people would still say no. Why are you trying to talk yourself into it?

For me it’s simple. He said he’d take them for 3 weeks. He’s now decided to take them for a month which is not what you agreed. They would miss 2.5 weeks of school and you’d be fined. Both of those would be a dealbreaker for me, it’s the originally agreed 3 weeks or nothing. If I had 3 weeks annual leave from work agreed for a holiday, I’d book flights for 3 weeks, not tell work I’m taking an extra week because the flights were cheaper! He doesn’t want you to go out for some of the time or get a visa. All of that equals a firm no.

I think this is a helpful post. I will definitely be talking about this with him tonight.
i do agree with what you are written. He is self employed so he just stops working and can pick it up whenever he comes back so that’s not an issue.
but I won’t let it go like that

OP posts:
unsync · 28/02/2023 18:21

I presume he's got travel insurance for them, specifically for health care.

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 18:22

unsync · 28/02/2023 18:21

I presume he's got travel insurance for them, specifically for health care.

you have to get a visa

OP posts:
Clymene · 28/02/2023 18:23

I don't care about the colour of his skin. Over my dead body would my ex who has never looked after his children on his own overnight take my primary aged children away for a month to stay with people I don't know in a country I've never been to. Your children have never been without you overnight.

And add in the lack of The Hague Convention, that would be a big fat no.

You have no idea what his family are like, where they live or anything else about them.

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 18:25

Clymene · 28/02/2023 18:23

I don't care about the colour of his skin. Over my dead body would my ex who has never looked after his children on his own overnight take my primary aged children away for a month to stay with people I don't know in a country I've never been to. Your children have never been without you overnight.

And add in the lack of The Hague Convention, that would be a big fat no.

You have no idea what his family are like, where they live or anything else about them.

We were together for 14 years and he moved out a year ago so he obviously spent loads of times with them overnight!
also they speak to his family via video and I did as well loads of times although with me there is a language barrier, but it’s not correct that I know nothing about them obviously

OP posts:
Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 18:28

FictionalCharacter · 28/02/2023 18:16

“i honestly don’t believe that he would leave them there. I mean despite being selfish he has already asked me for lifts to the airport etc so I do believe that they would all be returning, we were together 14 years some of that happy”
That makes no sense. How does him asking you for lifts to the airport make you believe they’ll all be returning?

You said upthread that you think there’s a 5% risk of him not bringing them back. For something catastrophic that’s a high risk! Would you get in a car if there was a 1 in 20 chance of it crashing? For very bad events an acceptable risk is more like 1 in a million.

You are obviously not comfortable about this or you wouldn’t have posted. Yet you keep posting more details and asking if people would still say no. Why are you trying to talk yourself into it?

For me it’s simple. He said he’d take them for 3 weeks. He’s now decided to take them for a month which is not what you agreed. They would miss 2.5 weeks of school and you’d be fined. Both of those would be a dealbreaker for me, it’s the originally agreed 3 weeks or nothing. If I had 3 weeks annual leave from work agreed for a holiday, I’d book flights for 3 weeks, not tell work I’m taking an extra week because the flights were cheaper! He doesn’t want you to go out for some of the time or get a visa. All of that equals a firm no.

I said 5% thinking minimal, i mean how do I assess it. I have no evidence that he wouldn’t come back or bring them back what’s so ever. He has been to Cameroon by himself twice and came back. Not investing money there or anything. Has a life here. Never done anything dodgy with the kids where he would not bring them.
i do have anxiety generally about things though and I even spoke to my kids about it and the response was but nothing would happen to us because we would be with dad and dad is nice
im not dismissing people’s points and I’m appreciative of the responses though and something to think about

OP posts:
XelaM · 28/02/2023 18:30

Watch the Netflix documentary 'Unsolved Mysteries' Volume 3: 'Abducted by a Parent'. The first is the story of Ahmed Kandil and Rebecca Downey. They were college sweethearts before they married and he was a highly intelligent, Westernised man, not some religious nut. Watch what happens after they split up. She hasn't seen her kids in many years.

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 18:31

XelaM · 28/02/2023 18:30

Watch the Netflix documentary 'Unsolved Mysteries' Volume 3: 'Abducted by a Parent'. The first is the story of Ahmed Kandil and Rebecca Downey. They were college sweethearts before they married and he was a highly intelligent, Westernised man, not some religious nut. Watch what happens after they split up. She hasn't seen her kids in many years.

Thank you

OP posts:
Clymene · 28/02/2023 18:33

Has he looked after them on his own overnight though?

I think this thread has made you defensive of him. But read your first post again. You're planning on getting your 8 year old to memorise the phone number of the British Embassy. You said he could take them for 3 weeks max and he's ignored that and has booked a holiday for a month.

I don't know your ex and obviously you do. But I would listen to your gut. And I'd give reunite a ring as a PP suggested.

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 18:36

Clymene · 28/02/2023 18:33

Has he looked after them on his own overnight though?

I think this thread has made you defensive of him. But read your first post again. You're planning on getting your 8 year old to memorise the phone number of the British Embassy. You said he could take them for 3 weeks max and he's ignored that and has booked a holiday for a month.

I don't know your ex and obviously you do. But I would listen to your gut. And I'd give reunite a ring as a PP suggested.

Yes, he’s looked after them overnight obviously.
yes, I am fuming that I’ve agreed to already something so difficult and he pushed the boundaries further so broke my trust.
i don’t have 100% trust in him no but then i don’t trust most people.
the memorising number was half jokingly
I’m definitely going to be chatting him tonight. I’m tempted to show him this forum but I think he will think people are being racist probably and will get annoyed

OP posts:
FictionalCharacter · 28/02/2023 18:48

@Onlinedater1 Don’t show him, just work out in your mind what you want to say and stick to it. It needs to come from you not a load of internet strangers. Some of whom have some poor information. The breach of trust that you mention (changing the plans you had agreed to, causing you further difficulty including with the school), is surely the main thing. He just hasn’t been very responsible.

Everyonesinvited · 28/02/2023 18:49

Is FGM practised there? Please check.

Everyonesinvited · 28/02/2023 18:50

It's not unknown for girls to be mutilated on trips from England. Do not believe him. Do your research.

It doesn't sound like he knows them.

ButterCrackers · 28/02/2023 18:51

You seem to want them to go despite your ex not looking after them overnight for a year. He doesn’t want you to go and you don’t want to travel but you says he’s wealthy. Is he paying for his kids or are you looking after them financially? Is he taking a new partner with him? Or meeting one there? If it’s not clear then it would be good to ask this.

Fladdermus · 28/02/2023 18:54

You posted this thread asking for advice because you were concerned about this trip and have then spent the entire thread arguing about why it's all fine, nothing to see here, kids perfectly safe, ex totally fine etc. What is the point of it?

bellac11 · 28/02/2023 18:54

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 18:06

School already said he would have to do the papers as it’s him taking them not me

If they have to issue fines, you will be fined as well though.

1stTimeMummy2021 · 28/02/2023 18:55

As someone who was abducted by their mother I am seeing nothing but red flags.

Mistymoonsinastarrysky · 28/02/2023 18:57

ClaraThePigeon · 28/02/2023 12:29

I just want to minimise any risks.

The only way that you can minimise the risks is by doing everything possible to prevent them from going. The risk of them not returning is very real.

^^This.
Absolutely no way would I even consider letting him do this!
The potential for him not returning them is massive.

Mistymoonsinastarrysky · 28/02/2023 19:04

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 12:34

So I’d say there is 5% chance that he would not bring them back. He has a life here and he will be coming back and also loves his kids and knows they have a good life here and he wouldn’t do it to them. But he can be quite selfish!
also my son is incredibly intelligent and I do believe he would get himself out of any situation, he speaks the language
also my ex’s sister is sensible
does it change the responses?

No. It wouldn’t change my mind one bit 😵‍💫