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Original poster

Letting ex take kids to africa

307 replies

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 12:17

So my ex is from a west African country, the kids are 8and 5. I’ve agreed for him to take the kids away for 3 weeks max after a long debate. I’ve never been there and they haven’t either so it would be an opportunity to meet their cousins, grandma and practice their language. I was already really anxious as he can be quite selfish and I wouldn't even know where they are exactly as people don’t have exact addresses there. I have phone numbers for his family but that’s about it. I spoke to them before but there is a language barrier.
he initially said i can come as well but when I said i’d join for a week only, he said it’s too much money to pay for me just to come for a week. Also declined when I said he could apply for a visa for me just in case as it’s again waste of money. I can’t afford to go and don’t really want to.
Anyway he booked them tickets for a month even though I said it’s 3 weeks max! He said it’s because the tickets were cheaper that away and he is their dad. So they will now miss 2,5 weeks school. I’m fuming. He has loads of money and hasn’t even had them for a night since moving out over a year ago. How can I trust him when he has no regard for what we agreed. I don’t want to stop them from going and don’t have money for solicitors but is there anything I can do to minimise any risk? Should I even be letting them go?
they want to go, but is it worth my anxiety?
should by teaching my son the phone numbers for British embassy by heart in case something happens 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️
aaarghhhhh

OP posts:
SavageTomato · 28/02/2023 15:25

Well a 5 second Google brought up recent reports about FGM in Cameroon. Sure, it's less common than in many other countries but that risk is there. And the prime ages for it are between 5 and 9 years old. Ex goes off for a day and a couple of women in the family do it to her, he then doesn't care cos it is normal. You want to risk that???

DarkShade · 28/02/2023 15:48

I don't really get why you need a month's break with your new bf? I think I was 18 on a gapyear the last time I had an entire month to myself. Two weeks is surely time off if you want it to spend with new bf.

Kennykenkencat · 28/02/2023 15:56

NowAAT · 28/02/2023 14:47

Why wouldn't he come back with the kids? Is it because it's an African country?

I find the responses are really strange. Would the responses be the same if he was taking the kids on holiday to Australia or America?

OP has your ex every threaten or give an indication that he would steal the kids? You know your ex best.

And finally, What's a solicitor going to do exactly? Stop a man from taking HIS kids on holiday?

This whole thread is a mess

No it isn’t because it is an African country, it is because it is a country that isnt signed up to The Hague Convention.

Also there is no reason for him to return to the UK. He hasn’t any stake in the country.

£60,000 in the bank is not a reason to return

Money can be transferred without him ever having to set foot in U.K. soil again or his children having to set foot in U.K. soil again.

So far there is nothing in ops posts which indicate that he has a reason to bring his children back to the U.K.

TomatoSandwiches · 28/02/2023 15:59

The FGM is a red herring, if he wanted to he could easily get that done here in the UK if he wished.

My main concerns would firstly be that as others have said in regards to being an unsigned country raises the risks if he or someone in the family decided to keep them and you don't know them or the family dynamics at all.
Secondly, your children are young, I think any 5yr old would find it very distressing to be away from their primary care giver for such a long time and coupled with the fact that it will be in a new place with new people, a language barrier and a selfish father not thinking of her needs at all, it's too much for children that young.

I would agree to two weeks only and I would have to be there with them for the whole visit and return.
Next time you will all feel a bit better about a longer visit.

Original poster
Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 16:01

TheShellBeach · 28/02/2023 15:11

Tanzania

Show quote history

I never said Tanzania, it’s Cameroon

OP posts:
Madwomanuptheroad29 · 28/02/2023 16:07

I think you referenced Tanzania in regards to street names (it confused me because last time I looked Tanzania was in East, not in West Africa). However it is irrelevant within this context.
Neither country is a signatory to the de Hague convention so if your husband does not return the children you have exactly zero chance of getting them back.

Soontobe60 · 28/02/2023 16:11

ghlily · 28/02/2023 13:28

This was a bad place to ask for advice. I am picking up vibes that sure that none of the responses come from people from a west African country. There is a lot of bias. Why on earth is some people’s first thought FGM??

At the end of the day they are his kids too. I think the best solution honestly would be for you to go with them. It is not fair on the children to prevent them from getting to know the other side of the family. If you went with them then that would solve all concerns that you have. Why are you reluctant to go with them? Surely it would be a wonderful experience for you all.

Your ex is right, visas and flights are extremely expensive to west Africa, so I wouldn’t have booked the tickets either without a guarantee that you were coming.

I feel very strongly that the kids should be allowed to go & that the best solution is that you go with them.

www.voanews.com/a/science-health_female-genital-mutilation-still-prevalent-west-africa/6183828.html

Madwomanuptheroad29 · 28/02/2023 16:16

In regards to this specific thread I would agree that FMG is a red herring (west Africa is quite big).
www.28toomany.org/country/cameroon/

Madwomanuptheroad29 · 28/02/2023 16:17

FGM I meant

TheShellBeach · 28/02/2023 16:19

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 16:01

I never said Tanzania, it’s Cameroon

Show quote history

Oh sorry - I picked that up wrongly from your post where you referenced Tanzanian street names (or lack thereof).

It also shows that I do not know the geography of Africa terribly well because Tanzania is not in West Africa which I didn't realize

Kennykenkencat · 28/02/2023 16:20

You started off by saying

there are addresses for hotels etc but people’s homes don’t always have exact addresses more the areas

but then said

I mean they would be going to a capital city of the country and stay with his sister and family. It’s a well developed city

In. which case there is a proper address and it sounds like he is fudging so you are kept in the dark.

FWIW friend was married to a guy who came here as an asylum seeker and was on the middle of a divorce when exh said he would like to take the children (18-21year olds) to his home country.

Friend thought what could possibly happen as they were all adults.

Fortunately I had a friend from the same country who had her adult child detained in the airport on the way back because under the law of the country any child who has a parent from that country if they visit as an adult, even having a foreign passport they have to do the Military Service. It took a lot of money to get friends Ds back into the U.K.

Friend tackled her ex about this and it turns out he knew of the ruling. He was more concerned how she found out.

Just because you think someone isn’t like that you have to look at their actions and not their words.

Nothing from what you say is demonstrating that this guy will bring his children back.

It could all be fine but even if there is even the fraction of a percent that things might not be Then is it really worth playing with your children’s lives.

Fladdermus · 28/02/2023 16:21

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 12:57

Right I mean they would be going to a capital city of the country and stay with his sister and family. It’s a well developed city and people don’t practice FGM, also they are culturally fairly liberal. I don’t believe my kids would be harmed. My ex went by himself a few times and we have had contact with family often and the kids are treated well, I have no concerns about FGM, slavery, abductions. I even think I’d probably manage to find them if anything happened as have sisters Id. But I’m really not massively concerned that he would not bring them back.
so does this never happen that African dads take their kids and bring them back? Do we not just watch too much sensational news??? 🤦‍♀️ i mean the kids really want to go, shall I not listen to that as well?
not even one voice for them going?
when I say people who know him I also mean my friends

My friend has a DD who spends the entire summer, every summer in Ghana with her dad who lives there. My friend has never had any problems with that, so it can work. But then Ghana is a signatory to the Hague Convention so she was never taking the risk that her child wouldn't be returned.

Kennykenkencat · 28/02/2023 16:22

Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 14:09

I think I’ll have to that really won’t I. Which means I’m not getting any break but I don’t feel I have a choice

Show quote history

You could end up with a bigger break than you expect if you don’t.

LittleOwl153 · 28/02/2023 16:31

Everything else aside, others have said enough on this...

Make sure he knows you will BOTH get fined for the school absence - which will be significant for 2.5 weeks and he should pay both fines.

Check with school that with that long an absense (- assuming it runs into the summer holidays which might complicate things?) that the kids will retain their school places on return. If it is a high demand area/school they might not.

Get him to get the kids a phone which will work out there so that they can contact you when they want / if they need to.

bigTillyMint · 28/02/2023 16:34

Personally, after reading your posts, it doesn’t sound like a huge risk for them to go with him. I also think it’s really important for them to learn about their cultural heritage and get to know that side of their family.

However, I do appreciate your concerns. I personally think you should suck it up and go for the last 2 weeks as a PP suggested and then you can also meet his family and bring them home safely.

Kabalagala · 28/02/2023 16:35

Kennykenkencat · 28/02/2023 16:20

You started off by saying

there are addresses for hotels etc but people’s homes don’t always have exact addresses more the areas

but then said

I mean they would be going to a capital city of the country and stay with his sister and family. It’s a well developed city

In. which case there is a proper address and it sounds like he is fudging so you are kept in the dark.

FWIW friend was married to a guy who came here as an asylum seeker and was on the middle of a divorce when exh said he would like to take the children (18-21year olds) to his home country.

Friend thought what could possibly happen as they were all adults.

Fortunately I had a friend from the same country who had her adult child detained in the airport on the way back because under the law of the country any child who has a parent from that country if they visit as an adult, even having a foreign passport they have to do the Military Service. It took a lot of money to get friends Ds back into the U.K.

Friend tackled her ex about this and it turns out he knew of the ruling. He was more concerned how she found out.

Just because you think someone isn’t like that you have to look at their actions and not their words.

Nothing from what you say is demonstrating that this guy will bring his children back.

It could all be fine but even if there is even the fraction of a percent that things might not be Then is it really worth playing with your children’s lives.

The address thing is a non issue. It's normal in much of Africa and doesn't mean a thing.

Fladdermus · 28/02/2023 16:49

Sorry, but my kids wouldn't be going any where near a country with areas so dangerous the government advise against any travel there.

www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/cameroon

gottogo23 · 28/02/2023 17:03

Please see the below link about FGM in Cameroon.

'Girls between the ages of 5 and 9 years old routinely experience the practice'
borgenproject.org/female-genital-mutilation-in-cameroon/

No way would I be sending my children there.

Sprogonthetyne · 28/02/2023 17:36

It would be a no from me, based on the fact op felt uneasy enough the start this thread, don't ignore that niggling feeling. She has said she thinks there's a 5% chance he would keep them, which would be way to bigger risk for me. Why would you consent to anything with a 1/20 chance of never seeing your kids again.

Pearlygates · 28/02/2023 17:38

gottogo23 · 28/02/2023 17:03

Please see the below link about FGM in Cameroon.

'Girls between the ages of 5 and 9 years old routinely experience the practice'
borgenproject.org/female-genital-mutilation-in-cameroon/

No way would I be sending my children there.

Please stop this. Cameroon is amongst African countries with the lowest rates of FGM. People hear about FGM and automatically thinks EVERY female in Africa has gone through it which is simply not true. It’s a backwards way of thinking. Furthermore, I think OP knows her ex more than a bunch of strangers who think they know him.

holierthanthou73 · 28/02/2023 17:45

Pearlygates · 28/02/2023 17:38

Please stop this. Cameroon is amongst African countries with the lowest rates of FGM. People hear about FGM and automatically thinks EVERY female in Africa has gone through it which is simply not true. It’s a backwards way of thinking. Furthermore, I think OP knows her ex more than a bunch of strangers who think they know him.

Show quote history

if that’s the case, then why IS she here asking for a bunch of strangers for advice 🤷🏻‍♀️

Throwncrumbs · 28/02/2023 17:53

So he came here and claimed asylum, and now he’s taking your children back there….he got his British passport with a lie then, true asylum seekers do not return for a holiday to the country they are claiming asylum from….ffs woman do not allow this man to take your children out of the country!!!

showstopper100 · 28/02/2023 17:54

@Onlinedater1 - where or who has the kids passports?

Original poster
Onlinedater1 · 28/02/2023 18:00

Throwncrumbs · 28/02/2023 17:53

So he came here and claimed asylum, and now he’s taking your children back there….he got his British passport with a lie then, true asylum seekers do not return for a holiday to the country they are claiming asylum from….ffs woman do not allow this man to take your children out of the country!!!

He got his British passport through being married to me in the end

OP posts:
Madwomanuptheroad29 · 28/02/2023 18:03

Throwncrumbs · 28/02/2023 17:53

So he came here and claimed asylum, and now he’s taking your children back there….he got his British passport with a lie then, true asylum seekers do not return for a holiday to the country they are claiming asylum from….ffs woman do not allow this man to take your children out of the country!!!

This is quite a shocking statement - first of all a successful asylum claim is not the same as a naturalisation process (don't recall any reference to what citizenship the ex partner does and does not hold).
Secondly of course people who have claimed asylum do go back if the situation in their home country has changed sufficiently to make it safe. In the meantime life does not stop. People do settle, have families etc and make a life in the countries they fled to.