AIBU to be annoyed that my Grandfather’s Will has likely been forged, and there’s nothing we can do about it?

[Madeintheseventies]

My Grandad died over 15 years ago ( I don’t want to give exact dates etc ) and left a Will which left basically everything to my Aunt.
He had only two Children, being my Aunt and my Mum. (My Grandma had already passed years previously}

My Mum was not mentioned in his Will, and so it was as if she didn’t exist. After the funeral, my Aunt showed Mum a copy of my Grandad’s Will, as she was the Executor, and Mum saw for herself that all of my Grandad’s assets, including his home, car, caravan, boat and his money was left to my Aunt.
This exclusion obviously upset my Mum, not because of losing out financially, but because she wondered why she must’ve meant nothing to her Father as her existence wasn’t even acknowledged. She was especially upset as she didn’t even receive any sentimental personal possessions belonging to him.

Fast forward to a few years ago. My Mum and I were talking about Wills , and out of curiosity I decided to download my Grandad’s Will, as I hadn’t seen it previously.
(For the record, myself, my two Sisters and my Aunt’s three Children were mentioned in the original Will, and were each given £500 at the time of my Grandad’s death by my Aunt, and we received this before probate being obtained and before my Sisters and I knew my Mum had been excluded)
When I downloaded the Will, my Mum asked to see it again and was shocked when I showed it to her as she insisted that the ‘original Will’ she’d been shown years before had been typed, yet the downloaded Will was written in my Aunt’s handwriting, which both my Mum and I recognised immediately.

My Mum hadn’t questioned the validity of the Will years before as she was led to believe it’d had been drawn up by a Solicitor, and that my Grandad had been present at the execution of it in the Solicitor’s office.
Now, with the realisation that the Will submitted to Probate all those years ago was this handwritten home made one, my Family and I are suspicious that my Aunt has forged (or at the very least doctored) my Grandad’s Will in order to benefit herself.

After all, she was instrumental in writing it, her two friends witnessed it, she was the sole Executor and sole beneficiary of all of his assets (excluding the £500 some of us received) and she gave two different versions of the Will, one for my Mum to see and one for the probate office.
To add, the home made Will was also originally made in the 80’s apparently, according to the date on it, but it wasn’t executed until 7 years later.
I don’t believe that if my Grandad genuinely made his Will in the 80’s, he would’ve left it unsigned until years later, even though I managed to obtain an affidavit of due execution from the Probate registry stating that one of the Witnesses was present when my Grandad signed his Will at home.

As I know the witnesses, I decided to visit them and ask if they did indeed both remember signing the Will in the presence of my Grandad. They both said they think they did sign something at his house, but questioned the look of their signatures as they didn’t seem quite right.
Now, my family and I are left convinced that whilst the witnesses may have signed ‘something’, it likely wasn’t my Grandad’s actual Will, or at least the Will which was submitted to Probate.
What’s more, my Aunt was the only one who had a key to my Grandad’s house, she also had POA before his death, and she would’ve had the ability to access his money and ensure whatever ‘Will’ she wanted to present to the Probate office could benefit her.
I’m not really sure what I’m asking, but is there anything that can be done to contest the Will, even at this very late stage?
If so, could we represent ourselves to save on expensive costs?

Additionally, does anyone know if the Probate office should’ve got in touch with my Mum at the time of Probate (in case she wanted to raise a challenge to the Will) had they known of my Mum’s existence? … could my Aunt have lied on the Probate application forms to claim she was an only Child in order that my Mum wouldn’t be contacted?
Any advice welcome and sorry for the long post!

I would certainly make a few enquiries. I looked this up. And Lime solicitors have a straightforward article on suspected will forgery. You can then decide whether or not to take it further when you get advice.

Yes the Will was apparently drafted in the 80’s, but signed in the 90’s….. also, usually I’d imagine that when a person drafts a Will, they’d usually write their main assets first.

However, in my Grandad’s Will the first beneficiaries are listed as myself, my sisters and my cousins, with each of us to receive £500 each.

After all of this is written, it then states on a separate paragraph that the house/money etc is to be left to my aunt.

This is absolutely the normal way of dealing with legacies. You list the individual smaller legacies first, then state that the rest goes to the main beneficiary. In my father's will, for instance, he left fixed amounts to grandchildren, slightly larger amounts to me and my sisters, and then just said that the rest was to go to my mother. In the nature of things, you can't list exactly what goes to the residuary beneficiary because you don't know what exactly will be in your estate when you die.

What I mean by this, is that there is also a possibility that my Aunt deceptively wrote in the space above his signature ( either after he signed or after his death) that all of my Grandad’s assets were to go to her.

I guess it's possible, but I can't see that there's any way of proving it.

Your Aunt should have had the property transferred into her name as part of handling the estate. However I don’t think it is a legal requirement unless she wants to sell it. What you might want to look into, however, is whether it is possible for your Mum to register an interest against the property (on the grounds that the will might be contested) which would mean she has to be altered if your Aunt now does take steps to change the name of the registered owner. I have no idea if this is permitted or not, but just worth asking a solicitor about of you go down that route, since it’s easier to stop something from being transferred to her than it is to make her transfer it back. You do really need legal advice from a probate lawyer though.

Alerted, not altered.

Witnesses aren't expected to read the will. Rather the contrary, as it potentially involves showing them private information.

I have not read the full thread. However, the answers to your questions are:

• Yes, you can contest the will. There is no time limit for contesting a will where fraud is alleged. However, now that you have become aware of the possible fraud your mother needs to move quickly.
• Yes, your mother can represent herself, but I would seriously consider at least consulting a solicitor who specialises in contentious probate before going down that route.
• No, the probate office should not have contacted your mother. The only questions on the probate application relating to children simply ask how many children the deceased had. It does not ask for names. It is not the job of the Probate Office to contact people who might want to contest a will.

Thank you, I will ask that as I think we definitely do need legal advice

It’s not a police matter. It’s a civil matter.

unless the estate was worth over £2m it just would not be worth doing it. There is no time limit for this type of claim (undue influence, fraud) but the greater the passage of time, the less likelihood of success tbh. The fact that the estate was valued for less than the IHT limit means it’s just not worth pursuing. It’s such a shame your Mum didn’t ask for more detail at the time her Dad died but people often don’t when they are grieving.

Thank you, I agree the need for Probate legal advice.

I’m just wondering though, if my Mum decides to contact my Aunt with her concerns re the validity of the Will (in the hope that they can come to some sort of agreement regarding my Grandad’s house IF by some miracle my Aunt would mediate with her), would my Aunt quickly be able to transfer the title deeds of my Grandad’s house to her Children, in order that this asset cannot be bought into the equation should any proceedings ever follow?
I’m not sure if I’m explaining myself properly, but either before or during any potential proceedings, once my Aunt is aware that my family are questioning the authenticity of the Will, do you know if she is entitled to transfer the house over so that it cannot be used in any court action? ..… so technically the house would now belong to her children, leaving no asset there to challenge against?

Thanks for the replies all, popping out now but will check back later

I’m pretty sure (and I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong) that you and your siblings / cousins shouldn’t have been given your £500 before probate either.

Good luck OP - I hope any wrongs and righted!

If the house is still in grandfathers name I think it's worth your mum going to see a solicitor, explaining everything you've said here and seeing if Aunt is agreeable to sell house and split 50/50 or your mum could suggest police and the courts investigate the dodgy will.

This might be enough for your Aunt to agree to sharing the house if she did in fact do something underhand.

I can’t advise on what your Au r can and can’t do in relation to the house. However my common sense advice would be to keep your powder dry and say/do nothing until you have (a) put together the chronology and package of docs/evidence I mentioned above and (b) had a first consultation with a solicitor. If you think the witnesses will tell her, don’t contact them again for now. It’s been 15 years and she doesn’t even know you downloaded the will out of curiosity so she’s unlikely to take any pre-emptive action now. Be patient and methodical.

My point being that yes it will require a bit of an investment in that you’ll have to pay a solicitor for an initial view, but if you do some thing hasty now you might prejudice your or your Mum’s position, so safer to wait until you have the benefit of legal advice.

Be aware that the friends who witnessed the Will may mention to your Aunt that you have been asking questions. Although given their rather vague replies it may be worth asking them if they would give the same answers if asked in a court of law. With heavy hints about penalties for committing perjury/fraud.

It certainly seems very fishy. I'm intrigued as to why your aunt has left your GF's house still in his name so long after his death and not transferred it to hers. I work in welfare rights, and not so long ago I was asked by a client if he could avoid losing his benefits by leaving a property he'd inherited in his late mother's name, so if your aunt is on benefits that may be what she's up to (the answer is no, btw).

My friend had a new will drawn up when she remarried, because she didn't want her husband to inherit everything. I was one of the witnesses, and it was clearly stated that this will revoked all previous wills. Was there anything like that in the will you got, OP?

A very similar thing happened to my dad. My gran died a few years ago and she had left everything to my aunt. There was always a thing where my dad felt his sister was favoured more than him and my grandparents swore that this wasn't the case. They fell out about Ito nice but then made up and my grandparents apologised. They were in good terms before they died so it's weird.

I just don't really know how people would cut children out of their will, because if all being said they did just genuinely cut a child out, then that's really shitty. I couldn't imagine doing that to one of my kids. Because you're not only affirming that you didn't think much of that child and it's super painful for the child but it's also completely destroying any bond between siblings and encouraging animosity after you die. I just don't know how people do it ☹️

Something similar happened to my Dad and his sister when they discovered that their older sister had been Executor of several family wills, including those of their parents, and had (funnily enough) been the only beneficiary. They took legal advice (it all came to light in the early 90s but the wills had been dealt with over a period of some decades prior to that) but the upshot was that there were absolutely no consequences for the thieving sister as (a) the amounts were relatively small and (b) she was quite elderly by then and no court would convict an old lady, apparently. So my Dad and his other sister were advised to drop it. Absolutely shocking.

You might be right, if she was underhand ( and in our minds she highly likely was) then the fear of potentially getting found out could make her come to an agreement, although proving anything will no doubt be very difficult unfortunately.

I agree, it’s better to not be hasty and seek advice first.

The strange thing is her friends no longer have anything to do with my Aunt either, they both said she stopped bothering with them too some years back.

The hand written Will does state that it revokes all previous Wills.

It’s interesting that you mention about benefits …. I know my Aunt has been claiming disability benefits for years, and she lives elsewhere to the house, so as it’s a separate asset to the home she lives in I wouldn’t be surprised if she hasn’t mentioned this when applying for disability.
So am I right in assuming that given she has a separate asset to the home she lives in, she wouldn’t even be entitled to claim disability payments would you know?

If she’s brazen enough to also claim benefits fraudulently then she’s brazen enough to forge a Will, which I believe she’s done anyway……

If she has acted fraudulently, she is liable for the amount your mother should have inherited. She cannot avoid that by giving the house to her children.

It does sound similar, was you able to check that the Will was properly executed etc?

Isn't this the point of the post ? It seems obvious to me.