AIBU to be annoyed that my Grandfather’s Will has likely been forged, and there’s nothing we can do about it?

[Madeintheseventies]

My Grandad died over 15 years ago ( I don’t want to give exact dates etc ) and left a Will which left basically everything to my Aunt.
He had only two Children, being my Aunt and my Mum. (My Grandma had already passed years previously}

My Mum was not mentioned in his Will, and so it was as if she didn’t exist. After the funeral, my Aunt showed Mum a copy of my Grandad’s Will, as she was the Executor, and Mum saw for herself that all of my Grandad’s assets, including his home, car, caravan, boat and his money was left to my Aunt.
This exclusion obviously upset my Mum, not because of losing out financially, but because she wondered why she must’ve meant nothing to her Father as her existence wasn’t even acknowledged. She was especially upset as she didn’t even receive any sentimental personal possessions belonging to him.

Fast forward to a few years ago. My Mum and I were talking about Wills , and out of curiosity I decided to download my Grandad’s Will, as I hadn’t seen it previously.
(For the record, myself, my two Sisters and my Aunt’s three Children were mentioned in the original Will, and were each given £500 at the time of my Grandad’s death by my Aunt, and we received this before probate being obtained and before my Sisters and I knew my Mum had been excluded)
When I downloaded the Will, my Mum asked to see it again and was shocked when I showed it to her as she insisted that the ‘original Will’ she’d been shown years before had been typed, yet the downloaded Will was written in my Aunt’s handwriting, which both my Mum and I recognised immediately.

My Mum hadn’t questioned the validity of the Will years before as she was led to believe it’d had been drawn up by a Solicitor, and that my Grandad had been present at the execution of it in the Solicitor’s office.
Now, with the realisation that the Will submitted to Probate all those years ago was this handwritten home made one, my Family and I are suspicious that my Aunt has forged (or at the very least doctored) my Grandad’s Will in order to benefit herself.

After all, she was instrumental in writing it, her two friends witnessed it, she was the sole Executor and sole beneficiary of all of his assets (excluding the £500 some of us received) and she gave two different versions of the Will, one for my Mum to see and one for the probate office.
To add, the home made Will was also originally made in the 80’s apparently, according to the date on it, but it wasn’t executed until 7 years later.
I don’t believe that if my Grandad genuinely made his Will in the 80’s, he would’ve left it unsigned until years later, even though I managed to obtain an affidavit of due execution from the Probate registry stating that one of the Witnesses was present when my Grandad signed his Will at home.

As I know the witnesses, I decided to visit them and ask if they did indeed both remember signing the Will in the presence of my Grandad. They both said they think they did sign something at his house, but questioned the look of their signatures as they didn’t seem quite right.
Now, my family and I are left convinced that whilst the witnesses may have signed ‘something’, it likely wasn’t my Grandad’s actual Will, or at least the Will which was submitted to Probate.
What’s more, my Aunt was the only one who had a key to my Grandad’s house, she also had POA before his death, and she would’ve had the ability to access his money and ensure whatever ‘Will’ she wanted to present to the Probate office could benefit her.
I’m not really sure what I’m asking, but is there anything that can be done to contest the Will, even at this very late stage?
If so, could we represent ourselves to save on expensive costs?

Additionally, does anyone know if the Probate office should’ve got in touch with my Mum at the time of Probate (in case she wanted to raise a challenge to the Will) had they known of my Mum’s existence? … could my Aunt have lied on the Probate application forms to claim she was an only Child in order that my Mum wouldn’t be contacted?
Any advice welcome and sorry for the long post!

Yes we were

My Mum’s memory is sharp as a button, even now, so there’s absolutely no way that she remembers differently.
Whats more, reading a Parent’s Will is not something forgettable I don’t imagine!

My Aunt didn’t ‘send’ her a copy, she showed it to her at her home. My Mum would’ve also told me at the time if the Will was home made, but she said it’d been done at the Solicitors.
My Mum had been fooled into thinking that.

I would be willing to contact her yes.

Would your mum be willing to challenge her? What's your mum's view?

It sounds dodgy but I'm not a lawyer.

However, I was the sole executor of my late father's will and the probate office did NOT contact my sibling.

Execution of a Will is when it is signed by the Testator ( person making the Will) in the presence of two witnesses.
Yes the Will was apparently drafted in the 80’s, but signed in the 90’s….. also, usually I’d imagine that when a person drafts a Will, they’d usually write their main assets first.
However, in my Grandad’s Will the first beneficiaries are listed as myself, my sisters and my cousins, with each of us to receive £500 each.

After all of this is written, it then states on a separate paragraph that the house/money etc is to be left to my aunt. My Grandad’s signature is written quite low down the page. Could he have signed a Will believing he was going to give his Grandchildren some money and then said to my Aunt that she and my Mum would have everything else between them I wonder?

What I mean by this, is that there is also a possibility that my Aunt deceptively wrote in the space above his signature ( either after he signed or after his death) that all of my Grandad’s assets were to go to her.

yes you will have to pay her costs if you lose and costs are awarded. No you can't represent yourself in court. I have been in similar circs and what we did was to pay for some advice from a solicitor and then decide what to do. Do you know how no win no fee works? You buy an insurance policy up front that covers the legal costs if you lose. I agree that it looks suspicious but not conclusive and it will cost you money to take it further. An option you might look at is whether you have got free telephone legal advice with your home insurance policy...that might at least give you a starting point.

Tbh you don't know the value of your grandfather's assets, how they were owned, whether his pension was in a fund, whether he drew savings down earlier, etc, etc.
There are a lot of 'should have been' and 'maybe would have' in your posts. Your grandfather could have deliberately undervalued his house for a number of reasons. It also could have had underlying issues that you were unaware of. Assets could be owned personally or in businesses.
You're guessing a lot and if you'd had a close relationship with your grandfather then you'd know these details.
It's sad that you're spending time now trying to trace wills and witnesses, when if you'd spent time with your grandfather when he was alive, you'd have known all this.

She would be willing to challenge her, but understandably is concerned about potential costs.

Do you mean to sound so condescending?
you have no idea about my relationship with my Grandad! …. And for the record, I had a close relationship with him, I visited him every week without fail and once again, I know he was very comfortable financially because he told me! … and I KNOW the value of his house.

your post is extremely rude, and you shouldn’t assume the relationship between people you have never met! and for your information, I’m looking into this because it’s only recently we have had suspicions regarding my Grandad’s Will

No the probate office don't have to contact people. All of the finding legatees and settling debts bit is the personal responsibility of the executor. I believe that in Scotland , children cannot be excluded from a will without giving a reason, but in England there is no such limitation and ant challenge to the will must go through the courts. If your aunt was named as executor then she wouldn't have to have lied to the probate office because they wouldn't have been interested. Their basic role is to make sure that the government gets its share of the estate if entitled to any, to certificate the will as the "actual will" or to supply letters of administration if there is no will and the estate requires it. Very small estates do not.

Thank you, although if my Aunt has lied on the Probate forms by declaring she was an only child ( I think there’s a space for this on there), then the Probate office would surely accept her word for that?

When my Mum had her will done she gave all her children a copy. I think this is very sensible and something I will be doing. My sister was supposed to be executor but got so upset she just could not do it so had to sign a letter for me to do it. Your Grandad's will sounds dodgy. I think it is too late to challenge as I thought the challenge period was 6 months.

Suggesting that someone has faked a will is a serious accusation.

But it's only taken you 15 YEARS to address it? Come off it.

Yes it is a serious accusation. But not as serious as potentially faking a Will don’t you think?
And if you’d taken time to actually read my initial post properly, you would see that my Mum was led to believe (for years) that the Will was drawn up through a Solicitor.

She had no reason to question it at the time because she thought it was a genuine Will, albeit upsetting.
It’s ONLY since we downloaded the Will years later that suspicion as to the validity of it grew. Best to read people’s posts properly before making assumptions.

No you can't represent yourself in court.

Yes you can. Everyone has full access to justice and nobody can lbe compelled to use a lawyer. The Courts have to be supportive of litigants in person.

However the law in this area is very complex and it would be extremely inadvisable to represent yourselves.

Definitely a good idea to provide everyone with an updated copy!

Best to read people’s posts properly before making assumptions

Maybe best to read someone's will 15 years ago before deciding to challenge it. I'm not sure you legally can; given the length of time.

Thanks for the snidey comment, by the way.

There are no rules about what order to put your assets in a will. Are you suggesting that your grandad thought he was writing a will that didn't mention his children or his main assets at all, then your aunt added herself in after he signed?

Honestly, I think you/your mum are better off confronting your aunt yourselves, as nothing you have said proves wrongdoing. And for a legal challenge that's what you need - proof. It does look dodgy, but that isn't going to be enough to take this through the court.

Clearly you have still not digested what I’ve written as you will know that my Mum DID read the Will all those years ago, but she was (unbeknown to her) reading a ‘Will’ which was TYPED and not hand written.
In short, there is two DIFFERENT wills or so called wills. Hopefully you might understand now what I mean.

I understand there are no rules, but I’m
pointing out that if my Grandad did sign it, he may have been misguided into thinking that he was ensuring his grandchildren would inherit something, knowing that the rest of his estate would be split equally between his two children,

Whatever has occurred, and the circumstances surrounding it, the very fact that my aunt has solely benefitted, she was the sole executor, she wrote the Will, she had her friends witness it, and she went to the trouble of typing up another Will surely shows something is amiss.
Although I understand that proving any wrong doing is another matter.

Can i just check something you said ? the house is still in the name of your grandad who died 15 years ago? Do you mean at land registry ?

My brother and I were written out/excluded from my mum’s Will. The solicitor drew up letters which made clear why we were excluded to prevent us challenging the Will. Worth knowing because clearly it is considered to be out of character for parent to write out/not include children.

Yes I downloaded the title register from Land registry and he is still listed as the owner.

Would your Mum have anything with her Dad's signature? There are handwriting experts who could compare the signature on the will with another one which was written at around the same time to confirm whether or not they were written by the same person, but they would need to have the two original documents in front of them.