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Legal matters

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AIBU to be annoyed that my Grandfather’s Will has likely been forged, and there’s nothing we can do about it?

164 replies

Madeintheseventies · 25/04/2022 09:49

My Grandad died over 15 years ago ( I don’t want to give exact dates etc ) and left a Will which left basically everything to my Aunt.
He had only two Children, being my Aunt and my Mum. (My Grandma had already passed years previously}

My Mum was not mentioned in his Will, and so it was as if she didn’t exist. After the funeral, my Aunt showed Mum a copy of my Grandad’s Will, as she was the Executor, and Mum saw for herself that all of my Grandad’s assets, including his home, car, caravan, boat and his money was left to my Aunt.
This exclusion obviously upset my Mum, not because of losing out financially, but because she wondered why she must’ve meant nothing to her Father as her existence wasn’t even acknowledged. She was especially upset as she didn’t even receive any sentimental personal possessions belonging to him.

Fast forward to a few years ago. My Mum and I were talking about Wills , and out of curiosity I decided to download my Grandad’s Will, as I hadn’t seen it previously.
(For the record, myself, my two Sisters and my Aunt’s three Children were mentioned in the original Will, and were each given £500 at the time of my Grandad’s death by my Aunt, and we received this before probate being obtained and before my Sisters and I knew my Mum had been excluded)
When I downloaded the Will, my Mum asked to see it again and was shocked when I showed it to her as she insisted that the ‘original Will’ she’d been shown years before had been typed, yet the downloaded Will was written in my Aunt’s handwriting, which both my Mum and I recognised immediately.

My Mum hadn’t questioned the validity of the Will years before as she was led to believe it’d had been drawn up by a Solicitor, and that my Grandad had been present at the execution of it in the Solicitor’s office.
Now, with the realisation that the Will submitted to Probate all those years ago was this handwritten home made one, my Family and I are suspicious that my Aunt has forged (or at the very least doctored) my Grandad’s Will in order to benefit herself.

After all, she was instrumental in writing it, her two friends witnessed it, she was the sole Executor and sole beneficiary of all of his assets (excluding the £500 some of us received) and she gave two different versions of the Will, one for my Mum to see and one for the probate office.
To add, the home made Will was also originally made in the 80’s apparently, according to the date on it, but it wasn’t executed until 7 years later.
I don’t believe that if my Grandad genuinely made his Will in the 80’s, he would’ve left it unsigned until years later, even though I managed to obtain an affidavit of due execution from the Probate registry stating that one of the Witnesses was present when my Grandad signed his Will at home.

As I know the witnesses, I decided to visit them and ask if they did indeed both remember signing the Will in the presence of my Grandad. They both said they think they did sign something at his house, but questioned the look of their signatures as they didn’t seem quite right.
Now, my family and I are left convinced that whilst the witnesses may have signed ‘something’, it likely wasn’t my Grandad’s actual Will, or at least the Will which was submitted to Probate.
What’s more, my Aunt was the only one who had a key to my Grandad’s house, she also had POA before his death, and she would’ve had the ability to access his money and ensure whatever ‘Will’ she wanted to present to the Probate office could benefit her.
I’m not really sure what I’m asking, but is there anything that can be done to contest the Will, even at this very late stage?
If so, could we represent ourselves to save on expensive costs?

Additionally, does anyone know if the Probate office should’ve got in touch with my Mum at the time of Probate (in case she wanted to raise a challenge to the Will) had they known of my Mum’s existence? … could my Aunt have lied on the Probate application forms to claim she was an only Child in order that my Mum wouldn’t be contacted?
Any advice welcome and sorry for the long post!

OP posts:
LadyGardenersQuestionTime · 25/04/2022 09:53

Is it likely that your aunt forged the will in her favour? what was the relationship like between your mum, sister and grandfather?

Madeintheseventies · 25/04/2022 09:59

LadyGardenersQuestionTime · 25/04/2022 09:53

Is it likely that your aunt forged the will in her favour? what was the relationship like between your mum, sister and grandfather?

My Mum and Aunt have never really been ‘close’, but Mum was quite close to her Father, hence the shock of being excluded.
My Mum and Aunt no longer see each other, not because of this but because my Aunt never bothered to keep in touch with her much afterwards.

OP posts:
Madeintheseventies · 25/04/2022 10:03

Madeintheseventies · 25/04/2022 09:59

My Mum and Aunt have never really been ‘close’, but Mum was quite close to her Father, hence the shock of being excluded.
My Mum and Aunt no longer see each other, not because of this but because my Aunt never bothered to keep in touch with her much afterwards.

My Aunt showed no ‘surprise’ to the fact her own Sister was excluded, which gives us more reason to believe she has forged my Grandad’s Will

OP posts:
OlympicProcrastinator · 25/04/2022 10:16

I believe that you can still bring a claim, I don’t think there is a time limit on it. What I know for certain is that the outcome is based on probabilities, so if you can prove 51% in your favour, you will win the case. From what you’ve said, you appear to have a strong enough case to go forward.

There are no win no fee companies on the internet who will advise you for free and let you know if you can take the case forward. I’d ring them for advise. She shouldn’t be allowed to get away with that.

WhereWasThatFrom · 25/04/2022 10:17

That’s shocking and it does sound like the will was forged. Can you get proper legal advice? Perhaps you have cover with your house insurance.

surely the witnesses would have remembered if the the will had said your mother would have been left nothing? That’s quite a memorable thing.

AmyandPhilipfan · 25/04/2022 10:28

I personally wouldn’t bother with the hassle of contesting at this stage, but if I was your mum I would take comfort in the knowledge that it seems more likely now that her dad did not forget about her at all and was probably not aware that she had been excluded in this way.

Madeintheseventies · 25/04/2022 10:29

OlympicProcrastinator · 25/04/2022 10:16

I believe that you can still bring a claim, I don’t think there is a time limit on it. What I know for certain is that the outcome is based on probabilities, so if you can prove 51% in your favour, you will win the case. From what you’ve said, you appear to have a strong enough case to go forward.

There are no win no fee companies on the internet who will advise you for free and let you know if you can take the case forward. I’d ring them for advise. She shouldn’t be allowed to get away with that.

Thank you, I’ll look into that!
I’m unsure though if we did go further and contest the Will, should we lose we might have to pay my Aunt’s costs ….

OP posts:
CrotchetyQuaver · 25/04/2022 10:31

I think I'm of the view - let sleeping dogs lie. Nothing good would come from pursuing this. It would cost a lot of money and I doubt would achieve anything. You know what the aunts like and already have little to do with her.

Madeintheseventies · 25/04/2022 10:31

WhereWasThatFrom · 25/04/2022 10:17

That’s shocking and it does sound like the will was forged. Can you get proper legal advice? Perhaps you have cover with your house insurance.

surely the witnesses would have remembered if the the will had said your mother would have been left nothing? That’s quite a memorable thing.

Sorry I should’ve made it more clear that the Witnesses did agree that they thought it was a Will they were signing ( but were still dubious about those particular signatures) , but they didn’t read the contents of the Will.

OP posts:
SpiderinaWingMirror · 25/04/2022 10:33

Have this moved into legal.

Madeintheseventies · 25/04/2022 10:33

SpiderinaWingMirror · 25/04/2022 10:33

Have this moved into legal.

I did consider that, but hoped I’d get more traffic here.

OP posts:
Madeintheseventies · 25/04/2022 10:40

Amy and Crotechy.

I see your points, but my Family and I are further angered by the fact that my Aunt has trashed my Grandad’s memory by leaving his house go to rack and ruin. No one lives in it anymore, my Cousin used to for a while after my Grandad’s death, but she left it in such a state. My Grandparents were always house proud and would be so hurt that someone in their Family could disrespect their memory like this.

This is another reason to believe the Will was forged, as it shows my Aunt didn’t give a toss about her Parents if she could allow their house to get into a disgraceful state!

OP posts:
Lockheart · 25/04/2022 10:53

Before you start trying to contest it, consider if you're willing or able to lose thousands of pounds in pursuit of it.

These sorts of challenges are not cheap or usually quickly resolved, and there is always the chance you will not win.

Take some real life legal advice first.

itsmeagainlol · 25/04/2022 10:54

You have until 6 months after probate is granted to challenge a will if you believe it was forged or undue influence, however I would certainly see a solicitor to see if there is any other recourse.

Even the police may be interested as this is fraud and that is a criminal offence. Solicitor first though.

itsmeagainlol · 25/04/2022 10:55

Moving it to legal will get you some proper Legal advice if its one of the solicitors who post there.

UniversalAunt · 25/04/2022 11:11

Madeintheseventies · 25/04/2022 10:33
SpiderinaWingMirror
Have this moved into legal.
I did consider that, but hoped I’d get more traffic here.’

In this instance, quality over quantity.
You need sound independent legal advice to be well informed of the options & weigh up what actions to take.

From my lay, non-legal, AIBU poster point of view: your aunt sounds well dodgy.

CarmenThePanda · 25/04/2022 11:13

Post in Legal.

Lots of people who know what they are talking about look on the Legal Board but do not waste time with AIBU.

You need experienced legal knowledge.

Bootothegoose · 25/04/2022 11:15

Who witnessed the will?

Your sister and a solicitor? It must surely have a date on it... what kind of mind did your sister have? I would speak with a solicitor... they'll have more of an idea whether you have a case than us.

Madeintheseventies · 25/04/2022 11:17

UniversalAunt · 25/04/2022 11:11

Madeintheseventies · 25/04/2022 10:33
SpiderinaWingMirror
Have this moved into legal.
I did consider that, but hoped I’d get more traffic here.’

In this instance, quality over quantity.
You need sound independent legal advice to be well informed of the options & weigh up what actions to take.

From my lay, non-legal, AIBU poster point of view: your aunt sounds well dodgy.

There’s definitely something not right with the Will, especially as my so called Aunt has clearly been influential in making it and having it signed.

OP posts:
IWentAwayIStayedAway · 25/04/2022 11:18

There has been fraud. Personally id contact police. Not for financial gain but so that aunt is investigated

Madeintheseventies · 25/04/2022 11:21

Bootothegoose · 25/04/2022 11:15

Who witnessed the will?

Your sister and a solicitor? It must surely have a date on it... what kind of mind did your sister have? I would speak with a solicitor... they'll have more of an idea whether you have a case than us.

My Aunt’s friends Witnessed the Will. Very convenient for her.

OP posts:
Madeintheseventies · 25/04/2022 11:24

IWentAwayIStayedAway · 25/04/2022 11:18

There has been fraud. Personally id contact police. Not for financial gain but so that aunt is investigated

Trouble is I’m not sure we can prove it is fraud. There’s no way we could obtain old signatures of my Grandad to compare on the Will.

OP posts:
HaveringWavering · 25/04/2022 11:24

surely the witnesses would have remembered if the the will had said your mother would have been left nothing? That’s quite a memorable thing.

It’s not that usual for witnesses to read the document that they are signing. Their only job is to watch and record that they saw the person sign. For basic witnessing the witness doesn’t even have to be able to verify that that person is who they say they are (eg they don’t have to ask to see any ID or anything).

OP, this sort of dispute is not they type of thing that “no win, no fee” lawyers will take on. Don’t waste your time with that.
what you need to do is find a solicitor specialising in probate and make an appointment. Before you go to the appointment, do as much work as you can to gather and present all the information - so make copies of all relevant documents, and put them in a file in chronological order. Type up a timeline of what happened and when (cross-referenced to the documents where appropriate). Take statements from the two witnesses recording what they told you (or, if they would not be willing to give statements, ask them to send you an email explaining what happened, or just write down as completely and as fully what they said to you and when).

Get as much information as you can about the value of the estate.

Then, once you have all this ready, send it to the solicitor in advance. The aim is to ensure that the paid-for time is used as efficiently as possible and enable them to give you a quote if there is a case to be pursued.

Good luck.

Octomore · 25/04/2022 11:25

I think you need legal advice, and while the whole thing seems very dodgy, some of your arguments are based on emotion and won't hold water.

E.g. If your aunt wrote the will for your grandfather, of course she wasn't surprised by its contents (i.e. your mum not being mentioned) - why would she be? That isn't proof that she forged his signature on the will. And it's entirely legal for anyone to write out a will for someone, to then be signed by that person.

Talk to a solicitor, and try to separate your (entirely understandable emotion) from the facts of the matter.

Madeintheseventies · 25/04/2022 11:25

itsmeagainlol · 25/04/2022 10:55

Moving it to legal will get you some proper Legal advice if its one of the solicitors who post there.

Does anyone know how to move there?

OP posts: