Emotional abuse - can EXH force access to 14 yo DH?

[InAState22]

15 years of coercive control in marriage with covert narc. Got out with WA support & now divorced.

No formal child contact arrangements. DD (15) spends 3 nights/week with her dad, she is the golden child. DS (14) has, over the last year, had periods of not wanting to see his dad. Since Nov has not wanted contact at all.

EXH cannot accept this. Accuses me of controlling his son & blocking access. Keeps calling DS, including from different numbers.Last straw was when he rang DD on Xmas eve and told her to put DS on the phone. Ended up in a virtual panic attack for DD who cannot displease her dad.

My question is: would a court be likely to order that DS at 14 must have contact with his dad? He is adamant he doesn’t want to due atm to behaviour he has experienced. Last time this happened I arranged a session with a family therapist who gave great advice, but EXH has ignored it all.

Am talking w solicitor Monday but it feels like a long time til then. Any advice much appreciated.

But that’s in the light of DS not seeing dad. And being “piggy in the middle”. There are lots of cases where both parents use children in marital disputes. They are both as bad as each other.

Simply because one child has a good relationship with a parent does not mean another child must also by default. Children are individuals not a homogenous collective. Each child's needs, temperament, and relationship with each parent will differ. It therefore stands to reason that each child's needs must be considered separately.

Using a child to coerce another child is troubling and I would personally see that as a red flag. The golden child dynamic can be very damaging to the other child.. i

@InAState22 how did it go with your solicitor?

Just to update.

Yes DDs relationship with EXH is very unhealthy. She cannot displease him, express her own wishes and feelings etc. it is emotional control, just as I experienced with EXH. And yes, she is very afraid of disappointing or upsetting her dad.

I am not ‘using’ DS at all TizerofFizz. I am respecting his own (at 14) wishes and feelings not to see his dad at the moment. He has voiced these independently to a) the school and b) police.

What has happened since is:

1. Following escalation (EXH not ceasing to attempt contact with DS via many different routes) police spoke to EXh and issued a warning on harassment.
2. Solicitor wrote to EXh, warning that at 14, DS wishes and feelings must be respected, setting out emotional effects on DS and advising that EXH can apply to court for living arrangements if he wishes. eXH threats of social services involvement are non-threats since DS doing well.
3. Received a very conciliatory response from EXh sol.
4. Got DD into counselling. This is going to take a long time for her to unpick and understand what a healthy relationship is, but at least she’ll have a chance.

Well done OP. I imagine it is hard but you are doing the best by both of your children.

Sounds similar to what I've been through, @InAState22 - the police involvement, solicitors, threats and malicious reports to social services ...

... the upshot of which is that as young adults, neither of my DC have any contact with their father having made their own independent decisions. He really, really messed up.

We still have security measures at the house, though.

Anyhow, way back when, ExH's own barrister told me that from age 13 the family court tend to accept that children can and will 'vote with their feet', and certainly from age 14. This was about a decade ago.

That is so interesting SpinningtheSeeds. Did your EXh blame you for the DCs ceasing contact?

I can’t see DD losing contact with her dad, she is so enmeshed. His emotional control over her is absolute. As it was over me, but it took me 15 years and counselling to see it.

DS is already making a choice, though.

Hi, nothing really to add but in a pretty similar situation. Dc14 has chosen not to see xh since November, and is scared to engage with him to tell him why. Xh accusing me of controlling the situation, where all I want is for dc to be allowed to choose. I’m scared of what will happen too, and I sometimes struggle with what is reasonable behaviour or my part, as I am constantly accused of manipulation. Hope things continue to improve for you.

Ignore Tizer. Have seen their posts on other threads. Clearly have a bee in their bonnet.

That stung a bit when you called your daughter, the golden child. I know why you say it but you don't say it in front of her or your son, do you? It sounds so dismissive of her and belittling. You sound like a loving mother so I'm sure you wouldn't. But if you think things, when you get angry, things can slip out.

My oldest went NC with his dad as a teen. His younger brother sees him every fortnight.
Ex accepted oldest's decision after legal advice.

If he’s a reasonable dad, he should try for access. He’s being reasonable with the DD and can prove it.

He's not reasonable at all. Read OP's posts and you'll see that he's using her to keep ds in line (emotional abuse) and he's trained her to be a nervous wreck

Also the fact that this man mistreats the DS and grooms the DD is evidence of abusive parenting. I'm glad OP has got DD some therapy as men who have abused their wives and treat their DDs as 'little princesses' often progress to abusing those DDs. A DS, to an abusive misogynist, is a rival, to be crushed.

Madisonbridges - the golden child occurs in narcissistic parenting ( you can Google it). No I would never refer to DD directly as this. I try to support her relationship with her dad, but also try to encourage her to have and communicate her own thoughts and feelings ( not very successfully though).

LucyLatimer so sorry you are in the same situation. The only thing that has seemed to work for me is having external people (police, solicitor) tell EXH that he cannot continue to harass or coerce DC into seeing him. My DS can’t tell his dad he doesn’t want to see him, he’s too frightened.

Otherwise, I know it is hard, but trying to ignore the false accusations. It doesn’t stop them, but it does help reduce your own frustration and upset with them.

Maybe the police isn’t a bad idea. Xh is the most entitled person, I suspect a covert narcissist, as you say also. I don’t really want to get in the middle, but feel that I need to, in order to advocate for dc. We need to tell somebody, I just don’t want it to have to be court - again. Dc has visibly relaxed since being here full time and is just so much happier

Lucy - I’d suggest a solicitor letter before the police. Just stating that DC makes their own decisions and at this age, their views should be respected.

If you have messages or texts of eXH accusing you of control/manipulation, that is useful.

Mine cost £180.

I’ll try that too, it might be time to make statement. We do have a court order from around 5 years ago, and I had a few sols letters sent at that time, and he learnt then that they didn’t mean much. Sorry to hijacker your thread. Please keep updating, as it’s a grey area, but I’m really interested to see how things go for your family. Wishing you all the best as it very tough on the dc’s and the parent .